I'm building a 289 block into a 347 stroker and want to use Ford cast iron heads. Any recommendation for choosing one casting over another?
Best iron head available? Probably the iron 65-66 GT40 heads. Those flow around 230 cfm on the intakes. Stock 289 heads are around 195-200 cfm.
Cobra Automotive had some reproduced. The last I looked they were about $3500 bare.
Other then that the 69 351W head is what Ford was recommending as a performance substitute circa 1970.
n 351 HEADS ?
Quote from: Wedgeman on May 15, 2022, 04:28:13 PM
n 351 HEADS ?
IF you use these, special rockers needed.
Use the cheap, and excellent newer GT-40P heads. They out flow the older 351W heads. You will need to use 'P' headers. Maybe, earlier cast iron manifolds like K Hi-Po or '69-'70 Windsor manifolds will clear the plugs(?).
That being said, why not use the newer alum heads like Trick Flow or AFR's?
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 15, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
Other then that the 69 351W head ..............
Note that the C9OE and then the D0OE casting made into 1974 are as far as the subject here are the same. ;)
Scott.
All good information and thanks for the advise. This car is just going to be a cruiser so no trips to the drag strip. I'm trying to keep the nostalgia look with the iron heads and considered aluminum painted engine color. Once I've considered all the options and their +/- may end up with aluminum. To the points made above I have the following questions
- I am going to run a repo Cobra or Edelbrock F4B intake. Will Windsor heads fit this arrangment?
- I've already purchased my headers so GT40P is out. How about the GT40 iron would that be a good choice?
Thanks
Quote from: Shawn on May 15, 2022, 05:59:48 PM
All good information and thanks for the advise. This car is just going to be a cruiser so no trips to the drag strip. I'm trying to keep the nostalgia look with the iron heads and considered aluminum painted engine color. Once I've considered all the options and their +/- may end up with aluminum. To the points made above I have the following questions
- I am going to run a repo Cobra or Edelbrock F4B intake. Will Windsor heads fit this arrangment?
- I've already purchased my headers so GT40P is out. How about the GT40 iron would that be a good choice?
Thanks
If it is just a cruiser then why bother with anything trick? Just use 289 or 302 heads.
You can use the COBRA high rise with any of them. However, there are lots of ways to be nostalgic.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 15, 2022, 07:01:17 PM
Quote from: Shawn on May 15, 2022, 05:59:48 PM
All good information and thanks for the advise. This car is just going to be a cruiser so no trips to the drag strip. I'm trying to keep the nostalgia look with the iron heads and considered aluminum painted engine color. Once I've considered all the options and their +/- may end up with aluminum. To the points made above I have the following questions
- I am going to run a repo Cobra or Edelbrock F4B intake. Will Windsor heads fit this arrangment?
- I've already purchased my headers so GT40P is out. How about the GT40 iron would that be a good choice?
Thanks
If it is just a cruiser then why bother with anything trick? Just use 289 or 302 heads.
You can use the COBRA high rise with any of them. However, there are lots of ways to be nostalgic.
Agree. IF it were my engine for a 'street cruiser', my two choices would be, 1-late model 5.0 HO heads, or 2-alum. Edelbrock Performer heads. Simple, cheap, reliable and good performance with out breaking the bank. My worthless two cents...
Quote from: Shawn on May 15, 2022, 05:59:48 PM
All good information and thanks for the advise. This car is just going to be a cruiser so no trips to the drag strip. I'm trying to keep the nostalgia look with the iron heads and considered aluminum painted engine color. Once I've considered all the options and their +/- may end up with aluminum. To the points made above I have the following questions
- I am going to run a repo Cobra or Edelbrock F4B intake. Will Windsor heads fit this arrangment?
- I've already purchased my headers so GT40P is out. How about the GT40 iron would that be a good choice?
Thanks
Why not just paint the aluminum heads with the engine? I have known people who machine off any aftermarket mfg marks for that more stock look.
The GT40 Aluminum head seems to have very good flow and resembles the original cast head more than other options. I'll be shopping for a set at Ford Carlisle in a few weeks.
Quote from: Shawn on May 15, 2022, 08:10:53 PM
The GT40 Aluminum head seems to have very good flow and resembles the original cast head more than other options. I'll be shopping for a set at Ford Carlisle in a few weeks.
I don't know where Randy went ??? but he helped me with suggestions for my "stock looking" set up with Ford heads and the F4B.
These are the X307 heads, painted with the engine... I'm trying for a stealthy look.
(https://i.imgur.com/eKBGyBH.jpg)
Good luck with your project 8)
I would personally recommend or would have recommended aluminum heads but that was not the criteria of the OP.
I think that you will find that the aluminum heads do not hold the engine paint well.
The Ford X heads are the best of the Ford aluminum heads but the AFR 185's are probably where you want to be?
The exhaust ports on the iron '82 and up GT heads are dismal with something like 80cfm flow numbers. You can actually see that with the ridiculous "stainless shorty headers" the factory installed on those cars.
At this point you do not want to make a decision for nostalgia look and find out you have terrible nostalgia performance.
Are you intending to use a GT350 Lemans bowl carb also?
After good advise here (as always) and watching dyno result comparisons I think I'm going with aluminum heads. Have not decided on fuel delivery but I'm considering the Holley Sniper. The image posted by Mark is the look I'm going for.
AFR are top quality cylinder heads, fwiw
Guys,
Remember, a 'street engine' with comparable iron or alum heads will be only around 10-20 horsepower difference among them. Alum heads will require more static compression over an iron version because of heat loss. Don't believe the 'magazines' that say you can bolt on 50-100 HP with just a set of heads. On a HP/race engine, yes. Keep your build reasonable, don't go hog wild on a cruiser/pleasure driver. Also, the Ford Motorsport/FPP 'X' heads are out of stock and not made anymore. There are other alternatives out there, with comparable performance. 'I' would keep your intake valve size to 1.94 for good velocity and good street manners. That said, IF you are looking for more, Trick Flow and AFR's would be on my list. Have fun!
The AFR's show an intake flow of 296@.550". That is considerably better then stock Boss 302 or 351c heads at around 270. According to Mr. Gillis, the original GT40 heads are around 240.
What that means is you do not need to run a radical camshaft with those heads to make them breath well.
The "old" adage with aluminum heads is that you need to run a static compression ratio of 1.1:1 v iron heads to EQUAL the thermal output of the engines.
The issue here is that the compressability of the fuel remains the same and IF 10:1 was as much as you could run with pump premium then it will be the same with iron or aluminum heads. So in effect, you are giving away some power (torque) with aluminum v iron heads.
Will you make more HP with 296 cfm on the intakes? Probably but the increase of HP with the increase of air flow is not directly linear. Definitely in the 25 to 30 hp vacinity though.
With a 347 and correctly matched components you SHOULD be in the 500 hp ball park. Why Kiwi only showed 425 on West's dyno is a mystery to me?
Randy thought he knew why but never fully explained his rationale on the subject back then. I suspect though that it was the COBRA intake that was the limiting factor but other intakes were never run to compare the results?
My choice may come down to what I find at Ford Carlisle. What would be a good set of Ford iron heads to match up with a 289 block? With the crescent shaped water passages on the 289 not present on modern heads (iron or aluminum )is this an issue?
Quote from: Shawn on May 24, 2022, 09:55:57 AM
My choice may come down to what I find at Ford Carlisle. What would be a good set of Ford iron heads to match up with a 289 block? With the crescent shaped water passages on the 289 not present on modern heads (iron or aluminum )is this an issue?
289 heads. :)