I was being questioned on one of my stories (Road Closed) from my Roadscape Horror Channel on YouTube. More specifically are the Cross Boss Autolite carburetors one carburetor or two inline carburetors strung together on the manifold. I thought they were two, having never see a Cross Boss in real life.
The answer is one carburetor. You can go here to learn just about everything there is to know about them:
https://www.inlinecarb.com/index.html
Roy
Here is mine:
Click on pic to enlarge.
Enjoy!
Thank you for the clarification gentlemen!
Can I explain away the error as an independent runner inline Autolite system?
http://www.inlinecarb.com/induction-systems.html
But then again probably not because that setup us not a true Cross Boss intake. Will fix the book if I ever publish the story.
How good is the Cross Boss? Is it more effective than a Weber setup for horsepower and reliability?
Quote from: deathsled on June 14, 2022, 08:52:00 AM
Can I explain away the error as an independent runner inline Autolite system?
http://www.inlinecarb.com/induction-systems.html
But then again probably not because that setup us not a true Cross Boss intake. Will fix the book if I ever publish the story.
How good is the Cross Boss? Is it more effective than a Weber setup for horsepower and reliability?
Two different animals--The Cross-Boss and Weber modified intakes for 2 Inlines are an IR.
The Cross-Boss has a common plenum, a very large one at that with long intake runners underneath. The modified Weber intakes mounting 2 large 'B' Inlines (required) are an I.R. independent Runner design like conventional Webers.
The Cross-Boss is not a 'bolt on and go' set up. Believe me after using one for street and vintage racing there were many learning curves. I modified mine, along with the Inline carb. Too long to list here...I most likely have more experience than anyone using one for street/racing. One exception is Kelly Coffield @ inlinecarb.com who is a master at rebuilding them.
That said, Inline carbs are very simple in design, and are quite easy to tune...IF you know how.
Btw, this is my latest project:
An Inline (large 'B' carb, 1425 cfm) mounted on a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429).
Quote from: crossboss on June 14, 2022, 10:33:49 AM
Btw, this is my latest project:
An Inline (large 'B' carb, 1425 cfm) mounted on a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429).
What a work of art both mechanically and aesthetically!
Not that I would try this but would the Monte Carlo brace need to be removed with a cross boss set up? I can hear the groans of purists now. To allay such pain, the Hertz has a 302 roller rocker in it now and the original engine resides in my closet.
Quote from: deathsled on June 14, 2022, 11:33:36 AM
Not that I would try this but would the Monte Carlo brace need to be removed with a cross boss set up? I can hear the groans of purists now. To allay such pain, the Hertz has a 302 roller rocker in it now and the original engine resides in my closet.
The stock factory or aftermarket shock tower to cowl brace, no. The 'export' or Monte Carlo brace will have to go....OR buy a curved one to clear the dist/CB/Inline.
Here is an old pic of my old Boss 302 T/A engine for a reference....
Quote from: crossboss on June 14, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: deathsled on June 14, 2022, 11:33:36 AM
Not that I would try this but would the Monte Carlo brace need to be removed with a cross boss set up? I can hear the groans of purists now. To allay such pain, the Hertz has a 302 roller rocker in it now and the original engine resides in my closet.
The stock factory or aftermarket shock tower to cowl brace, no. The 'export' or Monte Carlo brace will have to go....OR buy a curved one to clear the dist/CB/Inline.
Here is an old pic of my old Boss 302 T/A engine for a reference....
I should leave well enough alone. My car runs fine with the Holley 650 double pumper. Why change a good thing? I wouldn't have the heart to take off the Monte Carlo brace. It belongs on the car. Eventually the original engine should be rebuilt and put back in the car. If the bore is in need of a re bore, I would be inclined to sleeve it instead. What a great setup in that picture. I can look at speed parts all day long and be mesmerized by them. I always thought there should be a museum of vintage speed parts. But that is so highly focused , very few if any, would ever show up.
deathsled, do you have a crossboss setup?
Here's a few speed parts to look at.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 14, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
deathsled, do you have a crossboss setup?
Here's a few speed parts to look at.
Roy
In my dreams I have a cross boss setup. Perhaps a dual quad might be an interesting way to go on the Hertz. I still find the Webers to be an attractive nuisance to me though I haven't a clue how to set it up or tune them. So I stick with the single Holley 650 at present.
To engage in some confirmation bias here, I saw that the early cross boss was actually an offset dual quad setup according to this YouTube with supporting photo of the early setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD5FQCBfGEo
Therefore, I don't have to amend my story and it can stand as is (I got lucky). Thankfully I did not mention the Autolite inline carburetor which would have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench back into the equation. Whew!
You are referencing the prototype original Cross-Boss intake with two Holleys. Only a handfull were made. The 1969 Boss cars ran the special sand cast dual Dominators with a unique IR intake devoted to them. An off set distributor was required to clear this set up. Roy's picture of the engine on the stand is one example.
In my dreams I have a cross boss setup. Perhaps a dual quad might be an interesting way to go on the Hertz. I still find the Webers to be an attractive nuisance to me though I haven't a clue how to set it up or tune them. So I stick with the single Holley 650 at present.
[/quote]
Richard, we all like to dream, but IMO having dual fours on a street-driven engine of your size and build is way overkill. It'd probably just use a ton more gas, and may be slower too.
I've owned three cars with dual-fours ('57 T-Bird E-model, '60 Corvette, '66 Riviera GS) and yes they do look ultra-bitchin.
Quote from: deathsled on June 14, 2022, 11:33:34 PM
To engage in some confirmation bias here, I saw that the early cross boss was actually an offset dual quad setup according to this YouTube with supporting photo of the early setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD5FQCBfGEo
Therefore, I don't have to amend my story and it can stand as is (I got lucky). Thankfully I did not mention the Autolite inline carburetor which would have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench back into the equation. Whew!
[/quote
This page has pictures of and history about the prototype crossboss that my friend Gus Tarrrab bought from Smokey Yunick when we were there in 1988 for his first auction during Daytona speed week the same time that Tom McIntyre bought the "Mystery Motor "
https://www.inlinecarb.com/historical-info.html
Roy
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 15, 2022, 02:04:03 PM
In my dreams I have a cross boss setup. Perhaps a dual quad might be an interesting way to go on the Hertz. I still find the Webers to be an attractive nuisance to me though I haven't a clue how to set it up or tune them. So I stick with the single Holley 650 at present.
[/i]
Richard, we all like to dream, but IMO having dual fours on a street-driven engine of your size and build is way overkill. It'd probably just use a ton more gas, and may be slower too.
I've owned three cars with dual-fours ('57 T-Bird E-model, '60 Corvette, '66 Riviera GS) and yes they do look ultra-bitchin.
[/quote]
Thanks for your input, Van. I will leave well enough alone. I don't drive the car like a maniac. Perhaps some day it will have a Weber setup but not today. And not tomorrow. I hope you are well.
Richard E.
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 15, 2022, 04:54:49 PM
Quote from: deathsled on June 14, 2022, 11:33:34 PM
To engage in some confirmation bias here, I saw that the early cross boss was actually an offset dual quad setup according to this YouTube with supporting photo of the early setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD5FQCBfGEo
Therefore, I don't have to amend my story and it can stand as is (I got lucky). Thankfully I did not mention the Autolite inline carburetor which would have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench back into the equation. Whew!
[/quote
This page has pictures of and history about the prototype crossboss that my friend Gus Tarrrab bought from Smokey Yunick when we were there in 1988 for his first auction during Daytona speed week the same time that Tom McIntyre bought the "Mystery Motor "
https://www.inlinecarb.com/historical-info.html
Roy
Great photos and thank you for directing me there, Roy. In theory, the character in my story could have the two carburetor setup on the Cross Boss. The reality is that I erroneously had in mind the inline Autolite thinking it was two instead conjoined carburetors instead of one. If I rerecord my story on my channel I lose all the hits I have so far the Road Closed horror story so I am leaving as is because technically, the character could have the rare and exotic manifold on his 69 Boss as apparently a few examples were made before switching to the inline configuration. Besides it's all fiction in my story anyway, but I don't want to fall into the pitfalls of Hollywood that mislabels everything where technical matters are concerned. I like to be more precise.
Regards,
Richard E.
I've been kicking around getting a Dual Quad R code 427 Galaxie. I was chasing a 66 with drag race history but could never get a straight answer out of the guy as to how much of the car had been replaced during the restoration. The firewall had been hacked up to move the engine back and at one time it had a straight front axle under it.
Now I'm not sure if I really want a car that is going to eat $1 worth of gas each mile.
It all depends on how far you drive it.
A 2x4 Holley set up is similar to a Holley single "double pumper" set up but with vacuum "afterburners.
The FORD 2x4 linkage makes the primaries on the carbs open progressively just like a double pumper does.
The secondaries start to open around 3,000 rpm but open twice as fast as the primaries do in order for them to catch up and be synchronized at wide open throttle.
The vacuum secondaries do not really start to open until a little over 75% or so of the primary throttles.
So even on a 289, IF you can run a 4778, aka a 600dp, then you can run two 1850's.
Now in fact, those two 4's are actually cleaner then the single 600 dp by a long shot. They run 54 main jets and 119 secondary plates where as the double pumper starts at 69's with 71's in the secondary and will smart your eyes at idle because of the "competition" heavy idle. Set up that way to take advantage of the scavaging of competition headers.
The AFB dual four set ups are what you want to stay away from. Those have different linkage set ups and you tend to be running on the two of them all the time instead of the Ford set up of a primary and secondary carb.
If anything, you will find that the 465 Holleys are really too small for the set up.
Additionally, you will most likely wind up with a "Blue Thunder" version of the Ford "high rise" manifold. That manifold has the ports closed down near the intersection to the cylinder heads.
If you run it that way you will find that it is restrictive and unimpressive performance wise. You really need to port match the manifold to the head gaskets. Then you will see significant differences.
The neatest thing that I find is when the secondaries open you will hear this "whomp" sound like the sails opening on a racing boat does. The response is anything but a bog. The thing pulls big time.
The C6OA T/A manifold is a little bit of a different animal all together. On a dyno you MAY show that you are loosing HP off of idle but gaining around another 20hp over the ported "high riser". (Randy calls that one the "turd").
However take seriously the SA advertising that the "high riser" is good for another 55hp over the original single 4. I think that is conservative these days because of not necessarily being limited to the original camshaft profile.
The original single 4 is only good for around 12mpg cruising. If you beat on it, forget about that. Probably around 8mpg.
If you want to play "trans am racer", you will get what you will expect mpg and power wise, but that's up to you.
The 2x4 Holley set up is very streetable although I'm not sure some drivers are and there are some that have money to do this but are not capable of handling the car at all afterwards because of the additional power.
They do not pull like a Weber set up does. The power comes on in sudden stages. The Webers are just smooth all the way through.
Your biggest problem, if you want to call it that, is whether to run the carbs facing forward or backwards like the FE's do. Backwards has it's advantages and disadvantages but was proven to be a streetable linkage.
Forward was intended to be used on the T/A race cars and my thought is that it is there to simplify the linkage and save wasted time needless spent on a racecar.
Your choice. There is no right and wrong. It will just move the front carb 1/2" closer to the distributor cap and almost touch it. You feel confident that you will never develop a crack in that cap and short to the carb right? ;)
Guys,
FWIW, the Inline is the carb. The Cross-Boss is the intake. Not 'Cross-Boss carburetors". Just making a correction as not to be confusing when describing them.