SAAC Forum

The Cars => CSX 2000 Series => Topic started by: Richstang on June 21, 2022, 02:57:56 PM

Title: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Richstang on June 21, 2022, 02:57:56 PM
Can anyone fill in the story on this unusual Cobra.
What is the CSX number?
Why does it have different tail lights?
Did Ed Hugus built it? (Probably not.)

It was also in a December 7th 1963 video  filmed in Michigan.

It is different!
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: silverton_ford on June 21, 2022, 03:08:40 PM
CSX2126

Belongs to Anthony Branda
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Dan Case on June 21, 2022, 06:37:15 PM
Second rack and pinion steering Cobra by manufacture date, first left had drive rack and pinion Cobra, finished out of order before CSX2080. Was the prototype for Ford engineered and provided electrical systems including Stewart-Warner instrumentation, was the prototype for Ford-McCord engine coolant radiators and expansion tanks, and a test mule for all kinds of things including tires, a different rear license plate illumination lamp, and adapted to a specific Ford-Mercury passenger car tail lamp.

Used by Mr. Shelby as a daily driver in England for a while, road tested by a magazine company while in England, the article was published, VIP car at the Le Mans race circuit 1963, and probably more not so well documented.

Why, it was a test and development platform for coming features and or potential coming features it seems.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: FL SAAC on June 21, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
Beautiful,  nice lights
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Richstang on June 21, 2022, 08:25:39 PM
Thank you Brian,
Knowing the CSX number is fabulous to ID the car and look it up.

Thank you Dan,
It is nice to know those extra and important details.

Here are some additional photos in the UK (no side vents when there)

and
maybe an image when it was in Michigan with Carroll and Ken Miles receiving a trophy
(not the typical angled side vents, but rather a unique square side vent like the unique taillights
The date of 12/7/1963 in Michigan might not be correct.

Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: propayne on June 21, 2022, 08:53:38 PM
Much praise to Dan (and others of his ilk on here) for all of the incredible knowledge they share.

It's what keeps me hanging around this joint.

- Phillip

Title: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Bill Collins on June 22, 2022, 11:03:16 AM
I spoke to Anthony at the Carlisle Ford Nationals and he told me he was bringing 2126 to SAAC 47. It was a treat to see it. He also drove it on the parade laps around IMS, he was a few cars behind me in the procession (I call it that because the IMS pace car kept us all at 40MPH or less the whole time).

The taillights may have been sourced from a 1960 Dodge Lancer back in the day- see pic
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbydoug on June 22, 2022, 12:21:37 PM
I remember this car when owned by Ken Eber. It did not have those taillights on it at the time. Just the standard Cobra rectangular versions.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Dan Case on June 22, 2022, 07:40:35 PM
The taillights may have been sourced from a 1960 Dodge Lancer back in the day- see pic

When I did my research on the car with help from people on two continents reaching back shipping dates information, I believe modified 1963 Ford Mercury tail lamps were used. Ford was experimenting with its Cobra electrical system designs for the upcoming CSX2201-CSX2300 car contract at the time.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/274-220622193449.jpeg)

I still have not come up with a candidate donor for the rear registration plate illumination lamp used by CSX2126 in early 1963. I have looked at a lot of old Ford and Lincoln pictures, no joy so far. It is tough to know how far back in time to look.

When Ford engineers developed what was going into production at CSX2201 they reached all the way back to a 1939 (1940 model year) Ford truck and military vehicle design lamp bezel and lens with lamp socket parts from a 1951 (1952 model year) Hudson sedan for the high beam indicator and 1955 (1956 model year) design Lincoln Premier part for the windscreen fluid pump switch application.  Some Ford electrical designs in CSX2201-CSX2589 roadsters were Ford items with something added, something deleted, substitution of material, or were modifications of standard Ford pieces.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Richstang on June 22, 2022, 08:44:08 PM
Thanks for the post Bill.
The Lancer tail light is very close and I can see why it was thought to be the part, but did not look like a perfect match with the inside bright trim diameter. Dan seems to have it figured out from the Mercury.
Thanks you both for the posts.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: papa scoops on June 25, 2022, 10:48:44 AM
how about early corvair lamps? i had a 63 mercury, but dont remember the bezels looking like that. i could be wrong. scoops
Title: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Bill Collins on June 25, 2022, 11:24:59 AM
Thanks for the post Bill.
The Lancer tail light is very close and I can see why it was thought to be the part, but did not look like a perfect match with the inside bright trim diameter. Dan seems to have it figured out from the Mercury.
Thanks you both for the posts.

I agree. And it does make more sense that a FoMoCo part would be selected over one from a competing brand.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: JD on June 25, 2022, 12:08:41 PM
I agree. And it does make more sense that a FoMoCo part would be selected over one from a competing brand.

I read they used Corvair tail lights on some of the Ford GT's versions, but without the trim on the lens.
Image.

(Sorry for the interruption - back to the original program)
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2022, 11:37:19 AM
Anyone considered it might have been a British Ford part?
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbydoug on June 27, 2022, 11:41:28 AM
The information that I knew about that car disagrees with what Ned has in the Registry about it.

Is someone claiming that the car was constructed with these tail lights new?

That part I'm confused about.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 27, 2022, 12:47:22 PM
The information that I knew about that car disagrees with what Ned has in the Registry about it.

Is someone claiming that the car was constructed with these tail lights new?

That part I'm confused about.
The OP had a pic from 12-7-1963 showing the exact same tail lights on it unless that isn't the same car? 
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbydoug on June 27, 2022, 01:59:47 PM
I first saw this car in 1972. There was a story about it that the boyfriend of Shelby's secretary wanted a Cobra but only had $2500. She asked Carroll and he offered this car. It was at the LA facility.

I can't say that it never had those taillights on it because I wasn't in the UK in 1963 but until that picture popped up, no one had ever mentioned it before.

In addition, no one ever showed that it had them on for more then the five minutes it took to take the picture?
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Dan Case on June 27, 2022, 07:18:57 PM

In addition, no one ever showed that it had them on for more then the five minutes it took to take the picture?

There are three image clips in this thread taken during 1963 showing CSX2126 with the odd tail lamps that were taken months apart in the USA, in England (April-May 1963), and at the Le Mans track in France (June 1963) while being used as a factory demonstrator giving rides.  The AC Owners Club has posted interesting details on this car more than once. Not everything known has been published by a single club that I have ever come across.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: honker on June 27, 2022, 08:22:48 PM
I went through all my paper files, books/magazines (a lot of stuff from the U.K.)  computer files etc. found the same pics that were

 posted by Rich, JD & Dan Case nothing else.  Pictures of the back end of a car weren't as interesting as front and profile shots,

hence lack of such.

The search continues thanks Richstang for starting the thread !

Mike
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: CSX4781 on June 27, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
There is a good photo of CSX2126 in Robert Walker's new book(s) from the back, with Sterling Moss behind the wheel.

Dave
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: honker on June 28, 2022, 09:50:27 AM
Dave, thanks for your post, I went back in my disorganized files  ::)  Is this the photo you're talking about ? tighter shot in Dan

 Case's reply #8,   Stirling  ;) Moss in CSX2126 (regi QQ907)  at Le Mans, I believe that is CSX 2030 (regi 300PK) ahead of it, does

 it also have those tail lights ?

Mike
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbydoug on June 28, 2022, 10:19:53 AM

In addition, no one ever showed that it had them on for more then the five minutes it took to take the picture?

There are three image clips in this thread taken during 1963 showing CSX2126 with the odd tail lamps that were taken months apart in the USA, in England (April-May 1963), and at the Le Mans track in France (June 1963) while being used as a factory demonstrator giving rides.  The AC Owners Club has posted interesting details on this car more than once. Not everything known has been published by a single club that I have ever come across.

Interesting how they just disappeared at some point though? I do remember the car retaining the unique COBRA medallion on the nose though and everyone just shrugged their shoulders.

Considering the reporting that Shelby didn't even want to bring the Coupes and race roadsters back from Europe after the 65 season I find this car with an unusual amount of air miles on it with not a lot or reasoning considered it was "just another Cobra" back then?
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Cobra Ned on June 28, 2022, 11:05:24 AM
The round tail lamps the car used in the UK were changed back to the typical AC rectangular units at some point after its arrival in CA. When Mike Begley bought the car in the late '60s, it had the standard Cobra lamps. They remained on the car until Tony Branda changed them back to the round ones after researching the car's history in the UK.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Richstang on June 28, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
Thank you Brian,
Knowing the CSX number is fabulous to ID the car and look it up.

Thank you Dan,
It is nice to know those extra and important details.

Here are some additional photos in the UK (no side vents when there)

and
maybe an image when it was in Michigan with Carroll and Ken Miles receiving a trophy
(not the typical angled side vents, but rather a unique square side vent like the unique taillights
The date of 12/7/1963 in Michigan might not be correct.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: Dan Case on June 28, 2022, 03:05:47 PM
I find this car with an unusual amount of air miles on it with not a lot or reasoning considered it was "just another Cobra" back then?

A test and development car with some duty as a demonstrator of what was soon to come.

• Earliest Cobra with rack and pinion steering that Shelby American and Ford got to test. (CS 2030 was the first Cobra car A.C. used to test with rack and pinion steering.) 
• Fitted with prototype Ford-McCord coolant radiator and expansion tank set.
• Earliest Cobra with rack and pinion steering, Ford electrical system, Ford cooling system components, and a 289 High Performance engine that A.C. got to test.
• Outfitted with a prototype Ford of the USA electrical system including a Ford alternator and Stewart-Warner instruments. The electrical system and devices was a one of one collection of "parts" that would be developed into what went into production street cars at the CSX2201-CSX2300 build.
• The radiator and expansion tank (an ancillaries) were prototypes of what would be introduces around CSX2141.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: shelbydoug on June 28, 2022, 04:58:36 PM
I remember Ken Eber saying that Bill Kolb told him that this was the most worn out 289 engine that he had ever seen.

I wonder exactly how many miles the engine had on it at that point? It would appear that absolutely everyone in the world had driven it?

Kolb was who Ken took the car to for the rebuild when he had White Plains Ford.
Title: Re: Red Cobra with unusual Taillight at SAAC 47
Post by: warped head on July 23, 2022, 11:12:22 AM
I didn't see the Mercury Monterey mentioned specifically yet, but the tail lights look to me like they're from a Monterey's outer tail lamp, cut down a bit shorter and rotated 90 degrees.