https://bringatrailer.com/listing/ford-mustang-fastback-project-and-shelby-gt350-parts-package/
Wow!
Quote from: 5s386 on June 25, 2022, 02:40:24 PM
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/ford-mustang-fastback-project-and-shelby-gt350-parts-package/
Wow!
I was thinking around 25k. Shows how much I know.
Yea, wow is right.
So they have two dead ones to make this clone or maybe one day a return of.......
The seller states that the 1966 Shelby GT350 with the serial number SFM6S1130 was wrecked in a crash in the 1970s, and the owner at that time purchased a theft-recovered 1965 Ford Mustang with VIN 5F09A782578 to rebody the Shelby components.
Quote from: 5s386 on June 25, 2022, 02:40:24 PM
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/ford-mustang-fastback-project-and-shelby-gt350-parts-package/
Wow!
Double Wow! Make one wonder what a good driver is worth.
Anybody want to buy my rolling chassis 1969 Fastback...in better condition than this auction car? LOL
Second thread on this auction I believe
Quote from: greekz on June 25, 2022, 04:13:42 PM
Double Wow! Make one wonder what a good driver is worth.
Looks like real cars (based on sales like https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19215.msg153740;topicseen#msg153740 (https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19215.msg153740;topicseen#msg153740)) in project form are about $50K north of current top bid. Insurance companies are going to make big bucks as owners increase their insurance to cover the potential possible losses.
As other happens in times like this the gap between projects and fully restored or even drivers can decrease and buyers believe they can save money and build cars themselves for less
There might a surprise coming for someone in the future but the public display helps keep to document the current situation. At least we can be thankful of that
I do not know what it is?
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 25, 2022, 04:37:38 PM
Second thread on this auction I believe
Quote from: greekz on June 25, 2022, 04:13:42 PM
Double Wow! Make one wonder what a good driver is worth.
Looks like real cars (based on sales like https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19215.msg153740;topicseen#msg153740 (https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19215.msg153740;topicseen#msg153740)) in project form are about $50K north of current top bid. Insurance companies are going to make big bucks as owners increase their insurance to cover the potential possible losses.
As other happens in times like this the gap between projects and fully restored or even drivers can decrease and buyers believe they can save money and build cars themselves for less
There might a surprise coming for someone in the future but the public display helps keep to document the current situation. At least we can be thankful of that
Jeff I think you may be putting some unrealistic expectations into peoples perception of the market using a base of 50K as a starting point. I haven't seen a basket case project 66 GT350 advertised as low as 50 K for over a decade. Not to quibble but 80K is a more realistic basket case 66 GT350 base starting price and that might be even low. 80 K is low compared to the mess of parts and a wrong body that sold in the recent auction for substantially more. At least there have been some advertised as low as the 80 K in recent years. Of course there could be some anomalies ones that are advertised or sell privately for less but those are extremely uncommon based on what I am seeing and other dealers tell me. 66 GT350's are hot right now given the prices being paid for drivers and restored cars in the market right now.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 25, 2022, 05:13:50 PM
Jeff I think you may be putting some unrealistic expectations into peoples perception of the market using a base of 50K as a starting point. I haven't seen a basket case project 66 GT350 advertised as low as 50 K for over a decade......................
If you noticed I wrote in my post, " $50K north of current top bid" which was about $100K at that the time I posted that making it $150K close to matching ($155 asking) the price posted in the thread I listed .
Simple misunderstanding I believe
Quote from: 67 GT350 on June 25, 2022, 04:42:15 PM
I do not know what it is?
The remains of a 1966 GT350 along with an A Code shell. I suspect at one time the A code had a Shelby tag attached due to the drilled holes.
It comes with 2 titles which one do you think the buyer will register it as - A $30-40 grand Mustang or a $150-200 grand Shelby????
"Shelby American Automobile Club correspondence confirms that the serial number SFM6S1130 aligns with a Shelby serial number recorded in their files. The California title for a 1966 Shelby VIN SFM6S1130 is also shown in the gallery, and that VIN is currently registered Planned Non-Operational in the state. There is no Shelby VIN tag included in the sale."
No SFM tag and as yet I haven't seen a perfect replacement fabricated. May it stay that way.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 25, 2022, 07:16:23 PM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on June 25, 2022, 04:42:15 PM
I do not know what it is?
The remains of a 1966 GT350 along with an A Code shell. I suspect at one time the A code had a Shelby tag attached due to the drilled holes.
It comes with 2 titles which one do you think the buyer will register it as - A $30-40 grand Mustang or a $150-200 grand Shelby????
"Shelby American Automobile Club correspondence confirms that the serial number SFM6S1130 aligns with a Shelby serial number recorded in their files. The California title for a 1966 Shelby VIN SFM6S1130 is also shown in the gallery, and that VIN is currently registered Planned Non-Operational in the state. There is no Shelby VIN tag included in the sale."
This one heluva deal we can see the opportunities !
Expensive REBODY.
SAAC should now be on alert.
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/1966_shelby_gt350_6S1130-Verification-1-61610-scaled-1-99942.jpg?w=450&resize=450%2C620
Quote from: crossboss on June 25, 2022, 10:00:21 PM
Expensive REBODY.
SAAC should now be on alert.
Surprised the sellers state DMV and state troopers are not deep diving into this cars dual VIN and titles.
Bill
Quote from: Bill on June 26, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: crossboss on June 25, 2022, 10:00:21 PM
Expensive REBODY.
SAAC should now be on alert.
Surprised the sellers state DMV and state troopers are not deep diving into this cars dual VIN and titles.
Bill
And the FBI. VIN tapering/swapping is a felony. Like I mentioned, SAAC is now put on notice.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on June 26, 2022, 08:09:24 AM
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/1966_shelby_gt350_6S1130-Verification-1-61610-scaled-1-99942.jpg?w=450&resize=450%2C620
I think SAAC was put on notice?
Quote from: 67 GT350 on June 26, 2022, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on June 26, 2022, 08:09:24 AM
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/1966_shelby_gt350_6S1130-Verification-1-61610-scaled-1-99942.jpg?w=450&resize=450%2C620
I think SAAC was put on notice?
Will/can they do anything? I won't hold my breath...
I kind of dont think a re-body is wrong, but it should have to be told what it is. I would not like to find out that my used Shelby is a Shelby with a used body that never was "real" or "original" Shelby....I guess its hard to describe it? Mustang with a real Shelby VIN?
The history of this/these vehicle/s are now on record in cyberspace. Given the amount of labor and additional parts required, the winning bidder will have to be a professional or very accomplished amateur in order to not lose money on this project. IMHO, it would be less expensive to have purchased an already complete and restored 1966 GT350 with a clean history.
Quote from: Bill on June 26, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: crossboss on June 25, 2022, 10:00:21 PM
Expensive REBODY.
SAAC should now be on alert.
Surprised the sellers state DMV and state troopers are not deep diving into this cars dual VIN and titles.
Bill
Did I miss something? I saw it as one set of VIN's on the body (Dearborn car) and another set of VINs on some detached inner fender panels that belonged to a San Jose car. No rebody mating up the two
As far as the state in one form or another, does not appears anyone has "rung the bell" yet.
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 26, 2022, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: Bill on June 26, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: crossboss on June 25, 2022, 10:00:21 PM
Expensive REBODY.
SAAC should now be on alert.
Surprised the sellers state DMV and state troopers are not deep diving into this cars dual VIN and titles.
Bill
Did I miss something? I saw it as one set of VIN's on the body (Dearborn car) and another set of VINs on some detached inner fender panels that belonged to a San Jose car. No rebody mating up the two
As far as the state in one form or another, does not appears anyone has "rung the bell" yet.
Jeff,
Im quire confidant, the buyer will install the 'K' VIN onto this 'A' code Fastback. Why do you think it sold, and for such a high price? Viola, instant rebody of a VIN swap. That IS a felony.
Quote from: crossboss on June 26, 2022, 02:09:19 PMIm quire confidant, the buyer will install the 'K' VIN onto this 'A' code Fastback. Why do you think it sold, and for such a high price? Viola, instant rebody of a VIN swap. That IS a felony.
There is a legal route to do it. Ford did it when they retagged the unsold 69 Shelbys as 1970 production. The Feds oversee the process and one needs to prove ownership of both sets of numbers. Once the swap is made the rusty/crashed/etc hulk must be destroyed. The unused paper work goes to the state and listed as junked/destroyed. The bottom line though an individual does not have the clout of Ford and if he doesn't have a close personal friendship with someone from the FBI it ain't gonna happen.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 26, 2022, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: crossboss on June 26, 2022, 02:09:19 PMIm quire confidant, the buyer will install the 'K' VIN onto this 'A' code Fastback. Why do you think it sold, and for such a high price? Viola, instant rebody of a VIN swap. That IS a felony.
There is a legal route to do it. Ford did it when they retagged the unsold 69 Shelbys as 1970 production. The Feds oversee the process and one needs to prove ownership of both sets of numbers. Once the swap is made the rusty/crashed/etc hulk must be destroyed. The unused paper work goes to the state and listed as junked/destroyed. The bottom line though an individual does not have the clout of Ford and if he doesn't have a close personal friendship with someone from the FBI it ain't gonna happen.
You are talking apples to oranges. A manufacturer can re-VIN cars as in case of '69 to a '70 model. 'Swapping' a VIN onto another body, as what may potentially be the case on this auction car is illegal. Go to the FBI website and read it. Many individuals, and auto/restoration shops were raided and charged with VIN tampering. IF you think I am wrong, go do a VIN swap yourself and then notify the FBI what you just did...No, I won't bail you out of jail.
Quote from: crossboss on June 26, 2022, 07:12:07 PMYou are talking apples to oranges. A manufacturer can re-VIN cars as in case of '69 to a '70 model. 'Swapping' a VIN onto another body, as what may potentially be the case on this auction car is illegal.
Once the manufacturer has applied the VIN - THAT IS THE VIN. The FBI oversaw the swapping of the Shelby VINs. https://www.motortrend.com/features/1970-shelby-gt-500-hand-me-down/
As the official '69 model year expired, there were still 789 unsold Shelby vehicles sitting in lots. From a manufacturer's standpoint, this was not good. So the authorities were contacted, and under the supervision of FBI agents, the windshields were removed, the VIN tags were removed, and new VIN tags that stated the vehicles were '70 models were installed. Then the windshields were reinstalled. The destruction of the old plates was overseen by the agents as well.
Today there are a lot of cars running around with a front VIN and rear VIN. Those have been made by welding the good 1/2 of 2 vehicles together. The states generally brand the titles of these as rebody or rebuilt. 100% legal. I think Texas actually has a process to reassign the VIN from one car to another. Of course where do "repair" and "rebody" cross? Yes officer I replaced every panel except the front aprons that had the VIN. I used a combination of new and used sheet metal.
There is only one explanation for the price paid and that is to rebody a car with the Shelby VIN.
The engine, trans and rear housing are all not original to the original GT350. Even the carb is a replacement. Other than the front inner fender panel sections, what actually was original to 6S1130? The tach?
As I wrote in the auction comments, I don't think the '65 VIN currently on the car is the original for the body. There are indications that the shell is actually a '66.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 26, 2022, 07:49:17 PM
Quote from: crossboss on June 26, 2022, 07:12:07 PMYou are talking apples to oranges. A manufacturer can re-VIN cars as in case of '69 to a '70 model. 'Swapping' a VIN onto another body, as what may potentially be the case on this auction car is illegal.
Once the manufacturer has applied the VIN - THAT IS THE VIN. The FBI oversaw the swapping of the Shelby VINs. https://www.motortrend.com/features/1970-shelby-gt-500-hand-me-down/
As the official '69 model year expired, there were still 789 unsold Shelby vehicles sitting in lots. From a manufacturer's standpoint, this was not good. So the authorities were contacted, and under the supervision of FBI agents, the windshields were removed, the VIN tags were removed, and new VIN tags that stated the vehicles were '70 models were installed. Then the windshields were reinstalled. The destruction of the old plates was overseen by the agents as well.
Today there are a lot of cars running around with a front VIN and rear VIN. Those have been made by welding the good 1/2 of 2 vehicles together. The states generally brand the titles of these as rebody or rebuilt. 100% legal. I think Texas actually has a process to reassign the VIN from one car to another. Of course where do "repair" and "rebody" cross? Yes officer I replaced every panel except the front aprons that had the VIN. I used a combination of new and used sheet metal.
With all due respect, your beating a dead horse with the '69/'70 Shelby VIN changes. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'rebodies'
Quote from: CharlesTurner on June 26, 2022, 10:01:04 PM
There is only one explanation for the price paid and that is to rebody a car with the Shelby VIN.
The engine, trans and rear housing are all not original to the original GT350. Even the carb is a replacement. Other than the front inner fender panel sections, what actually was original to 6S1130? The tach?
As I wrote in the auction comments, I don't think the '65 VIN currently on the car is the original for the body. There are indications that the shell is actually a '66.
I absolutely agree that is the intention.
Anyone have a November 2003 Mustang & Fords magazine?
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 26, 2022, 10:48:17 PM
Anyone have a November 2003 Mustang & Fords magazine?
Article could be (like #1) of one of the following
Looking at the 2011 Registry it shows the following (summarized)
A David McDonald owned 6S1757 in 2002 and the car was used to create a model for Exact Detail. Company may have seen the article and called to use the car. A blue car
A David L McDonald owned 6S1803 who appears to be the original owner and not the owner in 2003
Don't see any 65 or 67's that fit the information provided
Just a possibility
Don't recall seeing either car locally. About 15 miles or so from the last registered owner and city
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 26, 2022, 11:17:54 PM
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 26, 2022, 10:48:17 PM
Anyone have a November 2003 Mustang & Fords magazine?
Article could be (like #1) of one of the following
Looking at the 2011 Registry it shows the following (summarized)
A David McDonald owned 6S1757 in 2002 and the car was used to create a model for Exact Detail. Company may have seen the article and called to use the car. A blue car
A David L McDonald owned 6S1803 who appears to be the original owner and not the owner in 2003
Don't see any 65 or 67's that fit the information provided
Just a possibility
Don't recall seeing either car locally. About 15 miles or so from the last registered owner and city
Just to clear a few things up:
1. The Dave McDonald who was supposedly the last registered owner of 6S1130 shown in the hand written note in reply# 28 and on the BAT auction page is not me.
2. Yes, I do have a couple copies of the November 2003 Mustang & Fords magazine. The article shown in the other reply# 28 photo on my 66, 6S1757.
3. Lane / Exact Detail contacted me directly in 2002 about doing a model based on 6S1757. They were looking to complete their 66 GT350 lineup but could not find anything
on the black/white stripe non-Hertz cars until they found some photos on my website. As a side note, they were fantastic to work with. I simply gave then a few photos,
one which they used on the box, and they gave me the prototype model which was sent around for licensing, plus let me buy 2 production models at cost.
4. The David L McDonald who was the original owner of 6S1803 is also not me, just another dude with the same exact name.
Gentlemen,
What everyone believes that "these vehicles" will be appearing in conventional places of sale like
auto trader, ebay, bring a trailer, auction houses etc. Is completely wrong
When they reconstruct both vehicles the 65 and 66 (since they do have the paperwork) they will be sold out of the USA .
Where?
In any other continent
Why ?
Because they will be sold into the black market, to people who have the money and really don't care about provenance . They just want to show their friends they have a 65 or 66 Shelby or maybe both
Don't believe me , well recently on this forum someone brought this particular car up that disappeared and apparently someone knows where it's at, it can't do a thing to retrieve it.
James Bond's iconic Aston Martin, valued at $25 million, vanished from a hangar in Florida in 1997.
The iconic 1963 Aston Martin DB5 car used in early James Bond films like "Goldfinger" and "Thunderball" has been found after being stolen 25 years ago, NME reported.
The car, which is valued to be worth over $25 million, mysteriously vanished from a reportedly secure hangar at a Boca Raton, Florida, airport in 1997. Now 25 years later, the car has been found by Art Recovery International, a group that finds stolen luxury items, according to The Telegraph.
The group said that an unnamed individual was able to verify the car through its serial number, confirming it is the one that went missing, NME reported.
Quote from: s2ms on June 27, 2022, 05:34:46 PM
Just to clear a few things up:
1. The Dave McDonald who was supposedly the last registered owner of 6S1130 shown in the hand written note in reply# 28 and on the BAT auction page is not me.
2. Yes, I do have a couple copies of the November 2003 Mustang & Fords magazine. The article shown in the other reply# 28 photo on my 66, 6S1757.
3. Lane / Exact Detail contacted me directly in 2002 about doing a model based on 6S1757. They were looking to complete their 66 GT350 lineup but could not find anything
on the black/white stripe non-Hertz cars until they found some photos on my website. As a side note, they were fantastic to work with. I simply gave then a few photos,
one which they used on the box, and they gave me the prototype model which was sent around for licensing, plus let me buy 2 production models at cost.
4. The David L McDonald who was the original owner of 6S1803 is also not me, just another dude with the same exact name.
Thanks for filling in the blanks and closing that rabbit hole :)