Car is a GT350 4 speed no air car. Here are some pics of my original dist. Stamped ED 0AF "H". Date 9F24 Vacuum advance is a "A12"
Thanks Gary
I think thats D0AF-H and it is correct!
What's your cars build date?
All 1970 Shelby's, especially California cars like my ex car 0F02R483129, had the same dual canister vac/retard device on it. Remember, 1970 was a year when emissions (esp CA cars!) where new, tougher laws went into effect. As for your correct part number, I do not know...the experts will chime in on that one.
I believe the 1970 428CJ cars with an automatic transmission used the single vacuum advance.
;)
Quote from: crossboss on September 04, 2022, 02:20:11 PM
All 1970 Shelby's, especially California cars like my ex car 0F02R483129, had the same dual canister vac/retard device on it. Remember, 1970 was a year when emissions (esp CA cars!) where new, tougher laws went into effect. As for your correct part number, I do not know...the experts will chime in on that one.
I never call myself an expert on anything but I'll go out on a limb and say this is my original dist. I posted this because there really has never been an in-depth discussion on the 70 GT350 dist. that I'm aware of. When Pete asked about an air 4 speed 69 I thought it was time to discuss the 70s. Changed due to emissions. Ed Meyer told me a long long time ago if you had ED stamped on it it was probably original. Hence the "ED" in my pic but the "E" is backwards. "The D0AF" the "D" could be missing but the "0" is very lightly stamped so it is possible the "D" is there but doesn't show up in the flash. Thinking back when it was out of the car I'm pretty sure the D is there.
The "A12" I have no reason to think it isn't the original vacuum advance. In 1969 all 351Ws got a single advance whether a manual or automatic according to the shop manuals and vacuum schematics for 1969. No 351W 4V in 70 so nothing in the shop manuals for 70 would pertain to this setup.
Quote from: SCJSTU on September 04, 2022, 12:34:32 PM
What's your cars build date?
Before the distributor. May 6, 1969.
QuoteIn 1969 all 351Ws got a single advance whether a manual or automatic according to the shop manuals and vacuum schematics for 1969.
I believe thats correct, but still looking for additional information
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 04, 2022, 05:15:28 PM
I believe the 1970 428CJ cars with an automatic transmission used the single vacuum advance.
;)
No. My California GT-500 had the dual vac/retard advance canister.
Ok thats one car what about all the other ones?
You should probably let the Cobra Jet forum know too, they have different opinions
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 04, 2022, 07:44:15 PM
Ok thats one car what about all the other ones?
You should probably let the Cobra Jet forum know too, they have different opinions
One of my friends has a 70 GT500 4 speed vert. Car was restored many decades ago with added things like a white interior, air cond, oil cooler, stereo etc. So not an original car but will try and see what dist he has in it and the advance. I knew of another very original all intact never restored 4 speed 70 GT500(highest serial numbered GT500 vert) but painted white(1 of 2 pastel gray) in 1975 for his prom and still the same last time I saw it many years ago.
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
I always went off of the 1969 shop manuals and the vacuum advance hose diagrams are only for a single advance. The vacuum tree I believe was used only on air cond cars? Do you think at AO Smith they modified the dist putting on a dual advance when the intake was done?
It appears every 69 Mustang with a 351W 4 speed I find also has the single vacuum advance.
Have you gone through this pic gallery on this site. I have over the years. Of course we don't know how original these cars are. https://www.nvsaac.com/gallery/1969_GT350_main.htm
The 70 gt 500s had manual choke ED stamped tag carbs and choke cable added done at kk plant and distributors changed out all part new 70 emissions laws 4-speeds dozf-c dual point dual advances and auto dozf-g single point with regular auto advances. 70 gt 350s had ED distributors also. Ford had 351w engines yet in very early 70 model cars till clevelands were used.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
I always went off of the 1969 shop manuals and the vacuum advance hose diagrams are only for a single advance. The vacuum tree I believe was used only on air cond cars? Do you think at AO Smith they modified the dist putting on a dual advance when the intake was done?
The only distributors that needed to be modified were the 1970 models so they could comply with 70 emission standards. There was no reason to modify the 69 4 speed distributor from what came on the regular Mustang 351 W 4 speed. The mods were done at Kar Kraft not AO Smith just like they did on the GT500.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 05, 2022, 11:05:33 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
I always went off of the 1969 shop manuals and the vacuum advance hose diagrams are only for a single advance. The vacuum tree I believe was used only on air cond cars? Do you think at AO Smith they modified the dist putting on a dual advance when the intake was done?
The only distributors that needed to be modified were the 1970 models so they could comply with 70 emission standards. There was no reason to modify the 69 4 speed distributor from what came on the regular Mustang 351 W 4 speed. The mods were done at Kar Kraft not AO Smith just like they did on the GT500.
That has been my thinking as well looking at pics and such over the years on 69 and 70 Shelbys and of course seeing them in person.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 05, 2022, 11:05:33 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
I always went off of the 1969 shop manuals and the vacuum advance hose diagrams are only for a single advance. The vacuum tree I believe was used only on air cond cars? Do you think at AO Smith they modified the dist putting on a dual advance when the intake was done?
The only distributors that needed to be modified were the 1970 models so they could comply with 70 emission standards. There was no reason to modify the 69 4 speed distributor from what came on the regular Mustang 351 W 4 speed. The mods were done at Kar Kraft not AO Smith just like they did on the GT500.
That has been my thinking as well looking at pics and such over the years on 69 and 70 Shelbys and of course seeing them in person.
You indicate that you think the 1969 4spds are dual advance in your previous post. This contradicts what you just posted responding to my post explaining only the 70 models had the duel advance mod. It is a little confusing. Maybe you misspoke?
Not at all. Someone decided to suggest all 1970 big blocks were "all" dual advance. They are not...
I'm not sure how that got mixed in with the small block discussion ?
Just to further clarify (since our discussion has expanded) , I believe this is correct:
1969 GT350 4spd used a single vacuum advance
1969 GT350 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT350 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT350 Automatic used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
I hope Mr Gaines can proof read that. The big block information seems to be inline with the Cobra Jet forum information and Shelby did not change big block distributors to the best of my knowledge.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 05, 2022, 11:16:01 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 05, 2022, 11:05:33 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 05, 2022, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Gary
I think the 1969 4spds are dual advance. The automatic trans are single vacuum advance just like 1968. They did not change the 1970 big block distributors. Therefore not all 1970s are not dual advance.
I always went off of the 1969 shop manuals and the vacuum advance hose diagrams are only for a single advance. The vacuum tree I believe was used only on air cond cars? Do you think at AO Smith they modified the dist putting on a dual advance when the intake was done?
The only distributors that needed to be modified were the 1970 models so they could comply with 70 emission standards. There was no reason to modify the 69 4 speed distributor from what came on the regular Mustang 351 W 4 speed. The mods were done at Kar Kraft not AO Smith just like they did on the GT500.
That has been my thinking as well looking at pics and such over the years on 69 and 70 Shelbys and of course seeing them in person.
You indicate that you think the 1969 4spds are dual advance in your previous post. This contradicts what you just posted responding to my post explaining only the 70 models had the duel advance mod. It is a little confusing. Maybe you misspoke?
I don't think so. Go read my post as I was answering another persons thoughts. My assumptions have always been single advances on 351Ws and that goes into non Shelbys also. I'm also open to new info if it proves Fords shop manuals incorrect or not updated so to speak. Read my reply #12
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 11:38:21 AM
Just to further clarify (since our discussion has expanded) , I believe this is correct:
1969 GT350 4spd used a single vacuum advance
1969 GT350 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT350 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT350 Automatic used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
I hope Mr Gaines can proof read that. The big block information seems to be inline with the Cobra Jet forum information and Shelby did not change big block distributors to the best of my knowledge.
That has been my thoughts for years but never really discussed in Detail. Ed's response on 70 Gt500 dist were mentioned before on another topic. Makes sense the GT500 would be the same as 428 70 CJ in 70 for emissions and that info is on the CJ website.
Reply #15: The only distributors that needed to be modified were the 1970 models so they could comply with 70 emission standards. There was no reason to modify the 69 4 speed distributor from what came on the regular Mustang 351 W 4 speed. The mods were done at Kar Kraft not AO Smith just like they did on the GT500.
My response: That has been my thinking as well looking at pics and such over the years on 69 and 70 Shelbys and of course seeing them in person.
So if that is a misspeak then I misspoke. So my assumption from what i have seen all 69 351Ws single advance even on Shelbys. 1970 GT350s dual advance on 4 speeds-not sure on automatics but think they should be single? I hope this clarifies things?
Thank you Mr Gaines I will see what I can find there
NVSAAC site it is hard to see sometimes as the pics are old and not every car is original. Found a few 70 cars with single advances on them. #2297 had a single, #2372 is a single with a 4 speed air but don't know the factory arrangement as to the originality of the trans or the engine bay which looks like incorrect parts like the air cleaner. To be clear I don't think the 70s(too few) there give me any indication what could be factory correct.
What's up with the hose coming off the cleaner on the pass side? I wonder what it actually goes to...
https://www.nvsaac.com/photogallery/images/1970/350/70_350_2372_e.jpg
Thats for california fuel evap system. I seen that setup while in california mustang shops years ago as it was a law had to be added to 70 shelbys sold in california.
Quote from: Special Ed on September 06, 2022, 09:35:14 AM
Thats for california fuel evap system. I seen that setup while in california mustang shops years ago as it was a law had to be added to 70 shelbys sold in california.
So #2372 would have been sold new in California with the air cleaner like that?
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 06, 2022, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: Special Ed on September 06, 2022, 09:35:14 AM
Thats for california fuel evap system. I seen that setup while in california mustang shops years ago as it was a law had to be added to 70 shelbys sold in california.
So #2372 would have been sold new in California with the air cleaner like that?
All 1970 Shelbys (and Mustangs) sold in California did receive the extra emission requirements per federal and state law. Evap tanks, special gas filler tubes/special gas caps, fuel lines, charcoal canisters, revamped distributors, air cleaners, and carb chokes (I believe only) on GT-500 models. My GT-500, 0F02R483129 was bought and sold in California, and I bought it in 1984 from the original owners. All of this stuff was intact and functioning.
I apologize for the poor quality of this picture, but the California Evaporative Emissions System was added to about 80 cars, both GT350 and GT500 models.
The drawing shows all the modifications including the addition of evap tanks, special gas filler tubes/special gas caps, fuel lines, charcoal canisters, air cleaners and even the antennas.
So far I have not seen any Shelby or Ford documentation to indicate the GT500 distributors were changed in any way. The air cleaner is shown in the lower left.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-060922164423.jpeg)
Thanks for the drawing Pete. That hose on a 69 air cleaner baffled me.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 06, 2022, 09:30:26 PM
Thanks for the drawing Pete. That hose on a 69 air cleaner baffled me.
The hose that goes to the canister and then the smaller one that returns to the tank?
Another source (if or if not those are always followed) is the dist vacuum diagrams Ford published in some fo thier manuals such as the 69 Emission manual or on some sites ;)
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 05, 2022, 11:38:21 AM
Just to further clarify (since our discussion has expanded) , I believe this is correct:
1969 GT350 4spd used a single vacuum advance
1969 GT350 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT350 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT350 Automatic used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1969 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
1970 GT500 4spd used a dual vacuum advance
1970 GT500 Automatic used a single vacuum advance
I hope Mr Gaines can proof read that. The big block information seems to be inline with the Cobra Jet forum information and Shelby did not change big block distributors to the best of my knowledge.
Even though the 70 GT500 distributors had the same type of vacuum advance compared to 69 I don't think the BB distributors were edited. I thought they were changed out to the 70 models distributors because they were 70 emissions compliant compared to 69. Maybe the 69 GT350 distributors were edited because there was no 70 emissions 351 W compliant distributor on the shelf. In the case of the GT500 there was a 70 compliant distributor that could be changed to make the engine emissions compliant. Just some thoughts.
I have a letter here of the list of things to change over at kk plant where the 70 shelbys were converted from 69 to 70 models in fall of 69. I talked to some of the workers who did some of the work on the 70 shelbys at KK and they even had to changeout some of the batteries from unsold cars that were built early in production because back then u had to keep adding water to the batteries. They said they couldnt sell a new car with an old battery in it as part of the warranty. Remember some of these cars sat around for a year or so before being sold. The 70 gt 500s had distributors changed out to the new 70 cj distributors with dozf #s and they were date coded sept 69 and years ago i got some nos leftover dozf dual point distributors that came out of kk plant. The 70 gt500 4-speed distributors had a hard to find dual point wide gold band vaccum advance that had a different arm bend to attach to the unique higher dual point plate and unique dual point cam lobe. The dual points sit up about 1/4'' higher than single points and have a unique orange boot wire that routes out the side of distributor in a different hole location that is closer to the vaccum advance. That hole location is how u can tell a fake from a real dual point restamped distributor. Years ago these fake restamped dual point 70 cj and boss distributors stated showing up after they repoed the dual point plate and cam rotors imagine that huh!!!
Thank you to everyone that clarified the 1970 GT 500 distributor questions
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 07, 2022, 05:26:54 AM
Thank you to everyone that clarified the 1970 GT 500 distributor questions
+1
Sometimes I'm slow...
Were the DOZF-G distributors for the 1970 CJ automatic cars single or dual vacuum advance??
Single.
Quote from: Special Ed on September 07, 2022, 01:23:14 AM
I have a letter here of the list of things to change over at kk plant where the 70 shelbys were converted from 69 to 70 models in fall of 69. I talked to some of the workers who did some of the work on the 70 shelbys at KK and they even had to changeout some of the batteries from unsold cars that were built early in production because back then u had to keep adding water to the batteries. They said they couldnt sell a new car with an old battery in it as part of the warranty. Remember some of these cars sat around for a year or so before being sold. The 70 gt 500s had distributors changed out to the new 70 cj distributors with dozf #s and they were date coded sept 69 and years ago i got some nos leftover dozf dual point distributors that came out of kk plant. The 70 gt500 4-speed distributors had a hard to find dual point wide gold band vaccum advance that had a different arm bend to attach to the unique higher dual point plate and unique dual point cam lobe. The dual points sit up about 1/4'' higher than single points and have a unique orange boot wire that routes out the side of distributor in a different hole location that is closer to the vaccum advance. That hole location is how u can tell a fake from a real dual point restamped distributor. Years ago these fake restamped dual point 70 cj and boss distributors stated showing up after they repoed the dual point plate and cam rotors imagine that huh!!!
WHO is the source of those dual point plates and point cams? I could only find them from Perogie who promptly reamed me on the price, but that was to be expected, considering the source.
They were the only ones with any kind of stock on them.
An academic point on that subject. There is more then one point cam. The B2 has a different advance notch in the pitchfork then the 351c does.
The B2 is a 10 degree notch. The 351c is a 12 or 15 degree notch.
The B9 has it's own distributor listing and might have another variant?
I don't know about the 428 point cam since I have never seen one but I would assume it is unique to the 428 as well?
There were Motorcraft service part numbers on the two that I have, the B2 and 351c, but they are long obsolete.
The points plate seem to be the same though with no part numbers showing on mine but stamped MOTORCRAFT not AUTOLITE as I would have expected.
I think that the weird dual vacuum advance part with the yellow cad center strap is the same though? It's stamped with a something 6. Can't read the first character on mine.
The odd thing that I found was that the arm where attached to the plate has no fastening c clip. It just humps the stud on the plate. :)
So thanks to Bob Zinc finding this survivor air 4 speed GT350 vert he was good enough to take an engine shot. Dual vacuum advance on an air 4 speed 70 GT350.