Does this certificate appear to be authentic? Any info on what this car is?
For a variety of reasons, I'll say NO.
I'm definitely skeptical. As far as I know, the EXP 500 was the only Shelby coupe from that year (other than the Shelby de Mexico built coupes). The owner says that she inherited it from her father, who worked at Ford in Dearborn. She says she has been in contact with Shelby about it. I'm asking her to provide those emails. I've also sent a message to the Shelby America registry department. The car is a basket case, but rust free.
I think your confusing vintage Shelbys with something that could have built much later. Shelby did not build any 1968 six cylinder coupes or any "EXP 350" before 1970
As far as info the OP asked for the car is apparently one of the many continuation type cars that the Modern Shelby American Inc. in Los Vegas has commissioned to be built or licensed so others could build using the Shelby name. It is a 60's body but actually built in recent years. They have their own registry to track those modern made cars that they have licensed over the years since Shelby started in Los Vegas in the early 90's.
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 11, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
I think your confusing vintage Shelbys with something that could have built much later. Shelby did not build any 1968 six cylinder coupes or any "EXP 350" before 1970
I meant GT 500 (Little Red)...I wrote the wrong thing. I've editted to correct.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2022, 02:31:45 PM
As far as info the OP asked for the car is apparently one of the many continuation type cars that the Modern Shelby American Inc. in Los Vegas has commissioned to be built or licensed so others could build using the Shelby name. It is a 60's body but actually built in recent years. They have their own registry to track those modern made cars that they have licensed over the years since Shelby started in Los Vegas in the early 90's.
Could be. Would the cert look like this one, without any mention of being later built? Would it say "experimental"? Is that perhaps why it has a CSM number instead of SFM?
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Does this certificate appear to be authentic?
Authentic to what?
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Any info on what this car is?
Sure, the VIN decodes as follows:
8=1968 model year
F=Dearborn Assembly plant
01=2dr Hardtop
T=6cyl engine
207014=107,013 mustang off that specific assembly line for the 1968 model year
Most likely built on May 29th, 1968
Essentially someones pipe dream they are now passing off as something it is not.
Instead of sending anything off to SAI, they should send it off to the 1968 SAAC registrar, or maybe she already has, and did not like the answer.
Bill
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2022, 02:31:45 PM
As far as info the OP asked for the car is apparently one of the many continuation type cars that the Modern Shelby American Inc. in Los Vegas has commissioned to be built or licensed so others could build using the Shelby name. It is a 60's body but actually built in recent years. They have their own registry to track those modern made cars that they have licensed over the years since Shelby started in Los Vegas in the early 90's.
Could be. Would the cert look like this one, without any mention of being later built?
It compares to other 60's bodied contemporary built Shelby's that I have seen that only list details about authenticity as it relates the modern day Shelby American Inc. manufacture. I have not seen any of these contemporary built cars that detailed when the cars were built as a Shelby.
Quote from: Bill on September 11, 2022, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Does this certificate appear to be authentic?
Authentic to what?
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Any info on what this car is?
Sure, the VIN decodes as follows:
8=1968 model year
F=Dearborn Assembly plant
01=2dr Hardtop
T=6cyl engine
207014=107,013 mustang off that specific assembly line for the 1968 model year
Most likely built on May 29th, 1968
Essentially someones pipe dream they are now passing off as something it is not.
Instead of sending anything off to SAI, they should send it off to the 1968 SAAC registrar, or maybe she already has, and did not like the answer.
Bill
Authentic as in is this cert actually from SAI. I meant what it might have been used for if the car was indeed an experimental car used by Shelby (as opposed to what the VIN can tell us). I thought I was sending the question to the SAAC registrars by posting my question in this forum??? How do I send to a registrar?
Lots of confusion exists in the pedestrian car collector world between The Shelby American Registry and the SAAC Registries. The SAAC books are the Bibles for the 62-70 cars that were built as Cobras and Shelbys. The Shelby American Registry covers 1962-date and was created by CS when he was unable to seize the work SAAC had done to create the databases and publish as accurate as possible history of each car. Since SA has brought Team Shelby inhouse think of their registry more as a mailing list of customers.
Also the Shelby American Registry is not published or searchable - otherwise you would learn they (and Ford) have built well over 150,000 cars since 2006 and they are really not "collectable" nor rare and historic.
https://www.shelby.com/Registry
Can I view another owners Registry entry?
At the time being, you cannot look at another owners registered vehicle.
I registered my car in the old system, why do I need to register it again?
Due to consolidating the Registry with Shelby.com, we need to tie registered vehicles to Shelby.com user accounts......
PS - Shelby would issue a "license" to build a car to just about anybody with the cash.
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: Bill on September 11, 2022, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Does this certificate appear to be authentic?
Authentic to what?
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Any info on what this car is?
Sure, the VIN decodes as follows:
8=1968 model year
F=Dearborn Assembly plant
01=2dr Hardtop
T=6cyl engine
207014=107,013 mustang off that specific assembly line for the 1968 model year
Most likely built on May 29th, 1968
Essentially someones pipe dream they are now passing off as something it is not.
Instead of sending anything off to SAI, they should send it off to the 1968 SAAC registrar, or maybe she already has, and did not like the answer.
Bill
Authentic as in is this cert actually from SAI. I meant what it might have been used for if the car was indeed an experimental car used by Shelby (as opposed to what the VIN can tell us). I thought I was sending the question to the SAAC registrars by posting my question in this forum??? How do I send to a registrar?
You had best send your question to Shelby American n Los Vegas who may be tracking this car in their registry. The SAAC 68 registrar only tracks the history of the cars built in the 60's and not the modern built Shelby's.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on September 11, 2022, 02:52:17 PM
Lots of confusion exists in the pedestrian car collector world between The Shelby American Registry and the SAAC Registries.
Thanks for explaining that. Shelbys are out of my wheelhouse. I primarily restore (Torino) Cobras and Talladegas.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2022, 02:53:27 PM
You had best send your question to Shelby American n Los Vegas who may be tracking this car in their registry. The SAAC 68 registrar only tracks the history of the cars built in the 60's and not the modern built Shelby's.
How is this cert recognized as being for a modern build? Because it has a CSM number on the cert instead of an SFM number? I'm trying to learn for future reference.
There were 4450 Shelbys built in 1968. All of the serial numbers are known.
1968 Shelbys were produced in New Jersey and all serial numbers start off "8T-"
This car and its serial numbers were someones after thought in an attempt to capitalize on the Shelby legacy.
The modern incarnation of Shelby does not have a vintage registry. That registry is kept exclusively by the Shelby American Automobile Club and has been ever since the mid 1970s
Disclaimer: Pardon my ramble below
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 03:03:52 PM
How is this cert recognized as being for a modern build? Because it has a CSM number on the cert instead of an SFM number? I'm trying to learn for future reference.
CSM would potentially be a "licensed" build from modern day SAL (Shelby American Licensing) where a 3rd party company or bodyshop (just about anyone, not Shelby American Inc themselves) paid Shelby licensing to build a
modern day replica out of an old Mustang bodyshell. Anyone with a deep enough wallet can do the same, with or without a CSM certificate (basically wall art these days)
https://www.shelby.com/carrollshelbylicensing/
In this case, you have enough experience with Ford products to know it was an original 6 cylinder "T" code chassis.
Again, just based on what you have posted above, it appears that a CSM number was used on a certificate, but apparently the car has not yet been built, or was built, then sold to someone, who now believes they have some "special hidden gold" in a 6 cylinder chassis. I believe, with your experience with restorations, that you already knew the answer before you started this thread, but doing your due diligence, found this to be exactly what you thought in the first place.
Bill
Looks like it became a "Shelby" in 2014. That's not a car that we typically discuss here, as it was not built in the 1960's by Shelby Automotive or (pre - 1968) by Shelby American.
This may be one of the "Heritage Continuation" cars from Legendary GT under a license (aka send us a royalty) from Shelby Licensing. Check: http://legendarygt.com
Certificates for licensed late model Shelby American cars are available from the Shelby Store.
Quote from: Coralsnake on September 11, 2022, 04:09:19 PMThe modern incarnation of Shelby does not have a vintage registry.
.
You can register your vintage Shelby Dodge Omni or any other Shelby car built since 1983 (Dodge, Series 1, Continuation Cobras, Superformance and any other car built under license by anyone, etc) in the current SA Registry. The registry is nothing but a listing of owners that only SA has access to (to send your their latest sales pitch). It does not have any build data such as date or options unless you add the data to the notes section for your VIN. You are required to register (join?) with Team Shelby prior to being able to register your ownership and purchase a certificate.
There is no authenticaion of the car only of your name on the registration - https://www.shelbystore.com/product-p/s2ms-cert.htm
They'll also let you register your 2006 and later Ford built GT350 & GT500 even though SA had nothing to do with the cars - after all 30 bucks is 30 bucks.
Anybody got a 1984 GT350 to register? That's the one CS sued Ford over and found out he had lost all the trademarks way back in 1967.
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1984-FORD-MUSTANG-GT350-223621
After all he had as much input into that car as he did the current ones.
The GT350 Anniversary cars were made in limited production, with a total of only 5,261 cars built. This included both coupes and convertibles and with both engine options, the 4-cylinder turbo and the 5.0-liter V8. The total production for the GT350 convertible with 5.0-liter high-output engine and 5-speed manual transmission was just 587 in total, with only 282 being convertibles.
Looks like Coker is making repos of the oddball TRX tires - https://www.cokertire.com/tires/220-55vr390-michelin-trx.html
Quote from: halowe on September 11, 2022, 01:34:40 PM
Does this certificate appear to be authentic? Any info on what this car is?
I've seen this same certificate on a blue 1965 Shelby (obvious) replica which was recently purchased by a married couple from Tucson, Arizona. They drove it to a local Phoenix area car show. The owners swore that it was an absolutely original 1965 Shelby, with the (same) document, with their Shelby serial number, that proves it. I felt sorry for them, as they paid a real 1966 Shelby price for it.
I don't remember there being a certificate of authenticity issued with original Shelby's 65-70 when they were sold new, so any car with a certificate is probably a clone or later build. Original cars are just that "original cars", problem with clones and continuation or whatever isn't with original builder, it's the resale later where it's misrepresented as a "real" Shelby. Cars have become so valuable forgeries are common and profitable. My personal feeling is only the Shelby's produced from 1965-1969(70) are the real cars and the most valuable as they should be, any others are clones, includes continuations etc. and shouldn't be any where near as valuable. Continuations were built to make money pure and simple.
I guess if you are going to take a chance and buy something that costs tens of thousands of dollars without the advice and consent of someone that can help you, you get what you deserve
The only certificate of authenticity for a classic Shelby for me is a letter from a SAAC registrar. 8)
Quote from: Don Johnston on September 13, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
The only certificate of authenticity for a classic Shelby for me is a letter from a SAAC registrar. 8)
and...... that will only confirm that the Shelby VIN and Ford production number you submitted matches the Ford serial number that was originally stamped on the car when it left their assembly line. It does NOT certify what those numbers are currently attached to is correct or original so you still need to do your due diligence.
Getting a Marti Report on that coupe VIN may be the best place to start.
An excellent suggestion. But, then of course, reality would visit, because that coupe was never anywhere near Shelby.