Here's a few pictures of the GT500 I'm putting back together. The original thread (my first) is https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=20212.0
Sorry for being out of touch, a house full of COVID and travel took all my time.
Please let me know what else you'd like to see!
I can upload only four images at time.
You have a good head start. Tell us what look you are going for?
The factory painted the outside of the fender aprons black
I think we will reassemble it for sale, and the "look" will be that we want it to be as authentic as I can make it without getting into concours territory. It's up in the air, honestly.
And do you mean the area indicated by the green arrow was painted black at the factory?
Thank you !
Yes
That entire area forward and rearward of the wheels
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 11, 2022, 05:42:45 PM
Yes
That entire area forward and rearward of the wheels
Thank you!
I would check out this article before I started painting anything... :)
https://concoursmustang.com/speegle/Articles/69/69%20Dearborn%20Under10-2017v12.pdf
There are some really good articles here and even if you aren't going the full concours route a lot of things are as easy to do right as wrong... :)
https://www.concoursmustang.com/
TOB
Quote from: J_Joseph on November 11, 2022, 05:37:04 PM
I think we will reassemble it for sale, and the "look" will be that we want it to be as authentic as I can make it without getting into concours territory. It's up in the air, honestly.
And do you mean the area indicated by the green arrow was painted black at the factory?
That are from the radiator support to the firewall surface was typically for most of the year a mix of three colors/paints. The body color from painting the body (visible sections after assembly) the base red oxide epoxy primer that would match the bottom of the front frame rails - firewall forward and black from the painter who painted the engine compartment and radiator support. On rarely found examples you can find a painter who applied body color all the way forward but he was wasting time and product/paint/$$$$s so the body color often extended forward to the shock tower insert area. The guy who painted the engine compartment black would have applied paint to the top lip of the engine compartment and the radiator support which would have produced overspray (last paint step) on to the lower and those directly behind the radiator support panels in the wheel well. Often, he would extend the black rearward to or short of the front edge of the shock tower insert. Any or all of these general stopping points could move forward or rearward depending on the day, worker and other reasons. As mentioned there are extremes but if you haven't documented them on the specific car your building would suggest that you don't reproduce those patterns but stick with what was typically done. Have plenty of pictures of this area from unrestored cars if that would help
To help with that we would need to know when the car was build at Dearborn. This date is available from Kevin Marti in one of his reports. Projected/guess upon date from the door tag, build sheet or other places on the car will not help.
Understand that your not going "concours" but you have to refinish that area anyway so might as well try to replicate the factory finish since you will not be coming back to correct it later, if you change your mind. Other items that bolt on an off can be corrected with a lot more ease if you change you mind later or choose to sell the car. But if your doing an all out modified or altered car anything goes
Good luck with your choices
The following are not specific for you cars production period but wanted to post some examples that shows some of the three color combinations I often find
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-100415210358.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-071015125757.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116160002-50171730.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-100415210326.jpeg)
NOTE to others readingn this. different factories had different practices so the above information is not meant for 65-67 or 68 Shelbys ;)
Hope this helps
Not to be picky but those window stop bolts on your door should be clear/silver plated and NOT painted. That is a pet peeve on "done" 69 and 70 Mustangs. Great start on your resto. When was your car built as it would determine your upper firewall color.
last 2 pics below are an April built original Boss 429.
I appreciate everyone's efforts to help the new member. Keep in mind his experience level is self admittedly low and he is not going for a perfect car.
Just my opinion: overwhelming him with details and flooding the zone with examples may not be in his best interests.
As Mr. Gaines would say, I am sure others might feel differently.
Pete, I went for a "more perfect" car when I did my car which I finished 20 years ago. I painted my outer aprons red and my under carriage all red. I didn't want it factory since a sprayer was clogged when my car went down the line and didn't want a large area to be bare metal. I cleared in the hood stripes also. These things can be "fixed" relatively easy by me other than removing sound deadener on the outer aprons(I swear it was there from factory but can't prove it now :( ).
Quote from: TOBKOB on November 11, 2022, 07:04:43 PM
I would check out this article before I started painting anything... :)
https://concoursmustang.com/speegle/Articles/69/69%20Dearborn%20Under10-2017v12.pdf
TOB
That's really amazing information, thank you.
Quote from: J_Speegle on November 12, 2022, 12:35:55 AM
To help with that we would need to know when the car was build at Dearborn. This date is available from Kevin Marti in one of his reports. Projected/guess upon date from the door tag, build sheet or other places on the car will not help.
Understand that your not going "concours" but you have to refinish that area anyway so might as well try to replicate the factory finish since you will not be coming back to correct it later, if you change your mind. Other items that bolt on an off can be corrected with a lot more ease if you change you mind later or choose to sell the car. But if your doing an all out modified or altered car anything goes
Good luck with your choices
Hope this helps
You make good points. I'm currently trying to figure out what steps to take - I know there are restoration guides for these cars, but I'm not sure how to evaluate their quality. Information like you provided is great, thank you.
The car is in an odd spot actually from what I can tell. The majority of the body has been restored and is in excellent condition. Then there are bare spots (rear fender wells, driver's footwell) and the floor was not restored. Upper control arms are new, lowers are untouched original. Why not do both while you're at it? Some motor components are dirty and flaky, others are pristine.
It's a little confusing.
I would be very concerned if I were you. Get someone with some experience to help you
Quote from: J_Joseph on November 26, 2022, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on November 12, 2022, 12:35:55 AM
To help with that we would need to know when the car was build at Dearborn. This date is available from Kevin Marti in one of his reports. Projected/guess upon date from the door tag, build sheet or other places on the car will not help.
Understand that your not going "concours" but you have to refinish that area anyway so might as well try to replicate the factory finish since you will not be coming back to correct it later, if you change your mind. Other items that bolt on an off can be corrected with a lot more ease if you change you mind later or choose to sell the car. But if your doing an all out modified or altered car anything goes
Good luck with your choices
Hope this helps
You make good points. I'm currently trying to figure out what steps to take - I know there are restoration guides for these cars, but I'm not sure how to evaluate their quality. Information like you provided is great, thank you.
The car is in an odd spot actually from what I can tell. The majority of the body has been restored and is in excellent condition. Then there are bare spots (rear fender wells, driver's footwell) and the floor was not restored. Upper control arms are new, lowers are untouched original. Why not do both while you're at it? Some motor components are dirty and flaky, others are pristine.
It's a little confusing.
I can't speak to the other areas you are puzzled about but can offer a explanation on the lower control arms . The upper control arm is what takes all the wear. The upper ball joint and or the inner shaft wears out frequently. The lower ball joint seldom wears out other then the ball joint protective boot getting torn or the rubber bushing deteriorating . Sometimes restorers do not replace the lowers because the ball joint is still good. Consequently it is not odd that the lower was not replaced only that it was not cosmetically restored to match the other restored components. If not all other front suspension components are restored cosmetic or otherwise it my not be odd at all.
My antenna goes up when when you have s very nice body and a lot of unrestored parts.
The hardest thing to determine is if all the parts go together and the body is the real deal
Quote from: J_Joseph on November 26, 2022, 08:27:37 AM
The car is in an odd spot actually from what I can tell. The majority of the body has been restored and is in excellent condition. Then there are bare spots (rear fender wells, driver's footwell) and the floor was not restored. Upper control arms are new, lowers are untouched original. Why not do both while you're at it? Some motor components are dirty and flaky, others are pristine.
It's a little confusing.
Lots of possibility to how or why the car was built. Not everyone wants or can restore a car back to all original. The term is used loosely by many so you cannot simply some ones use of the word. Some will keep a very close eye on the budget to maximize profits or just because they don't have the money, skills or interest in having a complete done car. Trying to figure out what happened can be an exercise but the important thing is not why but to evaluate IMHO what the current condition is and go from there. Reasons and motive are not the important thing at this point
Buy a car and enjoy!
Paul
Quote from: J_Speegle on November 26, 2022, 12:39:20 PM
Lots of possibility to how or why the car was built. Not everyone wants or can restore a car back to all original. The term is used loosely by many so you cannot simply some ones use of the word. Some will keep a very close eye on the budget to maximize profits or just because they don't have the money, skills or interest in having a complete done car. Trying to figure out what happened can be an exercise but the important thing is not why but to evaluate IMHO what the current condition is and go from there. Reasons and motive are not the important thing at this point
I totally agree with this and it's the same advice I've given my kids on a lot of different topics. That doesn't mean I don't wonder sometimes!
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 26, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
My antenna goes up when when you have s very nice body and a lot of unrestored parts.
The hardest thing to determine is if all the parts go together and the body is the real deal
In this case, we know the second owner of the car, who bought it from the original owner. I think there are "unrestored" pieces which I have no idea what the owner was doing with them.
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 12, 2022, 09:22:57 AM
I appreciate everyone's efforts to help the new member. Keep in mind his experience level is self admittedly low and he is not going for a perfect car.
Just my opinion: overwhelming him with details and flooding the zone with examples may not be in his best interests.
As Mr. Gaines would say, I am sure others might feel differently.
I am definitely doing my best to come up with a battle plan and do appreciate everyone's help very much!
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on November 12, 2022, 09:16:28 AM
Not to be picky but those window stop bolts on your door should be clear/silver plated and NOT painted. That is a pet peeve on "done" 69 and 70 Mustangs. Great start on your resto. When was your car built as it would determine your upper firewall color.
last 2 pics below are an April built original Boss 429.
That's good info, thank you. I have the body specialist who did all the restoration work helping me with the reassembly of the body and the glass, and I think a detail like bolts can be taken care of with a little of his help after we break them loose from the current paint.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on November 12, 2022, 09:31:31 AM
Pete, I went for a "more perfect" car when I did my car which I finished 20 years ago. I painted my outer aprons red and my under carriage all red. I didn't want it factory since a sprayer was clogged when my car went down the line and didn't want a large area to be bare metal. I cleared in the hood stripes also. These things can be "fixed" relatively easy by me other than removing sound deadener on the outer aprons(I swear it was there from factory but can't prove it now :( ).
Did that affect the value of your car at all?
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 26, 2022, 08:39:19 AM
I would be very concerned if I were you. Get someone with some experience to help you
Thank you for the suggestion - are you talking about someone with Shelby-specific experience? That would be very helpful.
I do have maybe better than average experience for someone who isn't a mechanic, although I know it could be better. I've done minor body work, rebuilt suspensions, rebuilt motors, carbs and done okay trouble shooting electric in our newer cars.
I definitely don't know a lot about Mustangs, but I did spend my youth in my uncle's garage where he built hot rods and picked up a lot there. I think if I go slow and ask a lot of questions I might be able to get through it okay.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 26, 2022, 09:36:19 AM
.
I can't speak to the other areas you are puzzled about but can offer a explanation on the lower control arms . The upper control arm is what takes all the wear. The upper ball joint and or the inner shaft wears out frequently. The lower ball joint seldom wears out other then the ball joint protective boot getting torn or the rubber bushing deteriorating . Sometimes restorers do not replace the lowers because the ball joint is still good. Consequently it is not odd that the lower was not replaced only that it was not cosmetically restored to match the other restored components. If not all other front suspension components are restored cosmetic or otherwise it my not be odd at all.
[/quote]
I completely understand what you are saying - I just replaced one axle in my daughter's car because the other axle was fine (same with uppers and lowers for the control arms).
What I meant though is that the intention was to restore everything, but the lowers are a mess and the uppers are new. I'll take them off to make sure the ball joints are good and clean and repaint them (same with the rest of the suspension that is a mess.)
Quote from: J_Joseph on November 26, 2022, 05:33:49 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on November 12, 2022, 09:31:31 AM
Pete, I went for a "more perfect" car when I did my car which I finished 20 years ago. I painted my outer aprons red and my under carriage all red. I didn't want it factory since a sprayer was clogged when my car went down the line and didn't want a large area to be bare metal. I cleared in the hood stripes also. These things can be "fixed" relatively easy by me other than removing sound deadener on the outer aprons(I swear it was there from factory but can't prove it now :( ).
Did that affect the value of your car at all?
Depends who you talk to. I once color changed 2 Shelbys. Both I got more for them than I would have at the time in their original colors for what they were. Some will disagree with me. I built my vert the way I wanted it and don't care about resale value as I've owned the car for over 37 years now and never plan on selling it but my 3 kids will have to fight over it(unless I buy another car to=3). Other cars that came and went I did the cars with an endgame sale in mind but did them as right as I could with what I had. My vert is a MCA Papered concours gold driven car. To me that means a lot. Here is the underside of my car before reto. The purist should say I should restore it like it came from the factory. Well I bet not one of them would do this. LOL. Lots of bare metal due to clogged sprayer(s). When cleaned the candy apple red underside is striking. The rear frame rails look so good I couldn't bring myself to mount a set of tie down hooks to them. I could carefully mask everything off and spray charcoal met batch paint so to speak to mimic the original color after DP90ing the surface for a black color base. These days though I recommend taking Jeff's approach if you want to maximize you investment.
Let me throw this out there. If I had a color I didn't like on a 68 Shelby and the car wasn't numbers matching I'd paint it black again like I did a 68 Shelby I used to have. I'd say the same about 69 but they were never black other than 2 pre production cars.