Hi all
GT500 #1739 almost ready to hit the road after restoration.
The car is drowning in gasoline, and my mechanic has tried several options without any luck.
I have cold started it a few times, but dont dare to drive it until the problem is solved.
The carburetors were cleaned and got new gaskets installed.
I consider to replace the carburetors with more modern ones.
Can anybody guide me what is the best option, which still will fit under the original air filter?
Many thanks
Best regards
Jakob
I have never seen 4 fuel lines going into the BJ BK carbs before. Modifying the bowls is one indication the carbs have been heavily messed with in the past so who knows what other things have been done inside that may be responsible for the issues. I will let someone else go through the multitude of possible thing or things that could be the cause of your symptoms. Back in the day when they had to be every day transportation we switched out the duel fours for a single carb. Of course today I would advise against the switch unless you plan on doing a lot of pleasure driving and you are not concerned about historical appearance. I would have someone who is used to rebuilding the BJ and BK carbs to go through them so you can get them running right. They will always use a lot of gas . The engine is over carburetor ated for typical street driving to begin with. Spirited driving not so much. There are some on this forum who specialize in rebuilding BJ BK carbs. You went to the trouble of getting a historical repro coil for the engine but it is installed backwards.There are other small things that have been done that would need to be changed if you are concerned about historical look. PM me and I would be glad to help.
Quote from: Jakobs67gt500 on November 27, 2022, 01:30:40 PM
Hi all
GT500 #1739 almost ready to hit the road after restoration.
The car is drowning in gasoline, and my mechanic has tried several options without any luck.
I have cold started it a few times, but dont dare to drive it until the problem is solved.
The carburetors were cleaned and got new gaskets installed.
I consider to replace the carburetors with more modern ones.
Can anybody guide me what is the best option, which still will fit under the original air filter?
Many thanks
Best regards
Jakob
Those are wonderful carburetors if restored / rebuilt properly. Your photo shows a multitude of problems in the engine compartment. I would start by sending those carburetors to someone who specializes in them for a complete rework / restoration. Then take Bob up on his offer.
I also wonder what fuel pump are you using?
What is the pressure being delivered to those fuel lines? (check the output side of the fuel pump for the pressure).
I'm wondering about stuck needle and seats in the carbs? (I had one stick close as the car sat in a my hot Texas shop all summer, dried out and the stock system did opposite of yours, it couldn't open the seat and fill the fuel bowl. There was also an issue with the float.....).
Another problem may be causing some of your issues. There appears to be the tell tale signs of discoloration in the inside of the air horns, indicating a presence of backfire, which may have taken out the power valves.
Just out of interest I read through Jakob's other posts.
This is what this community is all about, those with knowledge helping others out !
Mike
My carb business is booked for about a year...
But if you want to tackle those yourself I'd be happy to coach you through it all.
The care for these is fairly specific, but not much different than any other holley.
I also have some blog posts specifically detailing multicarb ford setups on my page afscarbs.com
Feel free to check them out and also feel free to ask me anything.
I've done a few of these setups 😉
Quote from: Drew Pojedinec on November 28, 2022, 04:43:25 PM
My carb business is booked for about a year...
But if you want to tackle those yourself I'd be happy to coach you through it all.
The care for these is fairly specific, but not much different than any other holley.
I also have some blog posts specifically detailing multicarb ford setups on my page afscarbs.com
Feel free to check them out and also feel free to ask me anything.
I've done a few of these setups 😉
How do you repair the hole in the secondary bowls where fittings were added?
There are people that can repair that and make it invisible
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 27, 2022, 02:06:39 PM
I have never seen 4 fuel lines going into the BJ BK carbs before. Modifying the bowls is one indication the carbs have been heavily messed with in the past so who knows what other things have been done inside that may be responsible for the issues. I will let someone else go through the multitude of possible thing or things that could be the cause of your symptoms. Back in the day when they had to be every day transportation we switched out the duel fours for a single carb. Of course today I would advise against the switch unless you plan on doing a lot of pleasure driving and you are not concerned about historical appearance. I would have someone who is used to rebuilding the BJ and BK carbs to go through them so you can get them running right. They will always use a lot of gas . The engine is over carburetor ated for typical street driving to begin with. Spirited driving not so much. There are some on this forum who specialize in rebuilding BJ BK carbs. You went to the trouble of getting a historical repro coil for the engine but it is installed backwards.There are other small things that have been done that would need to be changed if you are concerned about historical look. PM me and I would be glad to help.
Greatly appreciated bob, I will get back to you
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 27, 2022, 04:55:47 PM
Quote from: Jakobs67gt500 on November 27, 2022, 01:30:40 PM
Hi all
GT500 #1739 almost ready to hit the road after restoration.
The car is drowning in gasoline, and my mechanic has tried several options without any luck.
I have cold started it a few times, but dont dare to drive it until the problem is solved.
The carburetors were cleaned and got new gaskets installed.
I consider to replace the carburetors with more modern ones.
Can anybody guide me what is the best option, which still will fit under the original air filter?
Many thanks
Best regards
Jakob
Those are wonderful carburetors if restored / rebuilt properly. Your photo shows a multitude of problems in the engine compartment. I would start by sending those carburetors to someone who specializes in them for a complete rework / restoration. Then take Bob up on his offer.
Many thanks - appreciate the input - yes a messy set-up
Quote from: rhjanes on November 27, 2022, 06:51:09 PM
I also wonder what fuel pump are you using?
What is the pressure being delivered to those fuel lines? (check the output side of the fuel pump for the pressure).
I'm wondering about stuck needle and seats in the carbs? (I had one stick close as the car sat in a my hot Texas shop all summer, dried out and the stock system did opposite of yours, it couldn't open the seat and fill the fuel bowl. There was also an issue with the float.....).
Good point thanks, I will get it checked
Quote from: roger on November 28, 2022, 02:21:01 PM
Another problem may be causing some of your issues. There appears to be the tell tale signs of discoloration in the inside of the air horns, indicating a presence of backfire, which may have taken out the power valves.
Yes fully agree, something did not go well - thanks for input
Quote from: honker on November 28, 2022, 02:59:19 PM
Just out of interest I read through Jakob's other posts.
This is what this community is all about, those with knowledge helping others out !
Mike
hi Honker - yes 100% agree with you, I have got very good guidance, which is much appreciated
Quote from: Drew Pojedinec on November 28, 2022, 04:43:25 PM
My carb business is booked for about a year...
But if you want to tackle those yourself I'd be happy to coach you through it all.
The care for these is fairly specific, but not much different than any other holley.
I also have some blog posts specifically detailing multicarb ford setups on my page afscarbs.com
Feel free to check them out and also feel free to ask me anything.
I've done a few of these setups 😉
Haha, I just sent you a mail, as everybody send me your way - and then I saw this :-) Really appreciated
Apart from the carburetors - the restoration job is amazing.
In case I want to buy new Holley carburetors, can anybody guide me which numbers to buy (think they are different)?
I will then send the original ones to AFS, and there will be no rush to finish them.
Again many thanks
Best regards
Jakob
It depends on if the engine is stock or modified.
Almost any Holley will work. Modified like BC-BD which you can get reproductions of.
Even a pair of 1850's will work but they will need the Ford throttles like the original 1850 and 1850-1, for the linkages.
Drew has found issues with brand new reproduced BC-BD's. You'd have to ask him exactly where and what to look for and correct.
Generally speaking you will need more camshaft and headers with a less restrictive exhaust system will help. Better connecting rods is a VERY good idea as well.
Some think that the original carbs were selected to reduce the rpm potential of the engine and thus load the bad connecting rods less.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 08:49:35 AM
It depends on if the engine is stock or modified.
Almost any Holley will work. Modified like BC-BD which you can get reproductions of.
Even a pair of 1850's will work but they will need the Ford throttles like the original 1850 and 1850-1, for the linkages.
Drew has found issues with brand new reproduced BC-BD's. You'd have to ask him exactly where and what to look for and correct.
Generally speaking you will need more camshaft and headers with a less restrictive exhaust system will help. Better connecting rods is a VERY good idea as well.
Some think that the original carbs were selected to reduce the rpm potential of the engine and thus load the bad connecting rods less.
Many thanks Doug.
The engine is stock, and I have all the linkage for the two original carburetors.
Will two of these do the job?
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/street/parts/0-1850S
The street warriors are going to work if you have a small cam and high idle vac.
If you have a larger more aggressive cam you may have issues with idle and transition to main circuit.
Quote from: Drew Pojedinec on November 29, 2022, 09:17:04 AM
The street warriors are going to work if you have a small cam and high idle vac.
If you have a larger more aggressive cam you may have issues with idle and transition to main circuit.
thanks Drew
My cam is stock.
Which carburetors will you recommend me to buy, and which type of choke shall I order?
I will send my originals to you, but want to use the car, so need to order some new ones :-)
I may be considered an expert with original Ford Holleys, but I really am quite ignorant regarding most new holleys.
I simply don't have much exposure to them.
The little experience I have is mentioned above. Most new 4v 600s are set lean, the end user is typically a guy with a stock pickup truck.
If your engine is mellow as described you will be fine.
On an engine like mine, the street avengers would be out of range.
I will say.
95% of all carb issues are related to incorrect fuel pressure, weak ignition, incorrect distributor timing.
Make certain to have all other variables in range.
https://www.afscarbs.com/post/multi-carbs
The only "thing" with current carbs, if at all is an issue, is that the original FORD Holleys had a throttle that was made to use the production 427 2x4 linkages.
You can use the current throttle arms but they are not going to be "bolt on" and are going to need some "modification" to use.
It can be done. I applied a pair of "converted" (fuel bowls) of '85 Mustang GT carbs to a 2x4 intake. They have annular venturi and factory set to idle at 14.6:1. They actually worked quite well since they are "calibrated" to turn the mains on faster then the old 1850's and thus run just like they do on the mains.
I ran original Holley Custom Shop restored BC-BD's (before Drew was around offering services) and they work quite well on my SMALL block 347 with the C60A T/A intake. So I would say in my particular application, the engine is not over carb'd at all. In fact I would speculate that it is capable of running two double pumpers, providing modification of the fuel bowls is taken into consideration but that is untried.
Drew just had a pair of the original T/A mechanical carbs he restored for Cushman's T/A setup. You can see the physical differences between the "1850's" and the current double pumpers. I believe those are center squirters so not much of a recommended street application unless you were going "pro-street".
Drew may not be the absolute expert on all Holleys but he is highly knowledgable on the carbs that he has done, how they work and why, and how to apply them. I'd go with his recommendations otherwise you become somewhat of an alchamest like me being a rebel within the group of rebels.
That's ok if you are willing to deal with your own self created set backs and careful not to shoot yourself in the foot when you need to finish your "vision" on some sort of a schedule. What happens there is that you discover or maybe more correctly "realize" other possibilities that take you off of the yellow brick road to the Emerald City? ;) Lots of side streets to investigate.
Then you become like me with the same hair that the "Professor" has in "Back to the Future". Still can't figure out how to make these engines run on recycled garbage though?
Several years back I refurbished my original bj/bk carbs including replating and recoloring where needed. While they are not going to fool anybody as far as assembly line appearance, I was pretty happy with them. After lots of tinkering, I got them working well. As stated earlier in this thread, they work amazingly well once you get them dialed in. I decided to buy a set of the new issue BK/BJ carbs from Branda, and put my original ones on the shelf. After installing the replacement set, I found basically no difference in the way the engine ran, so I thought I must of done something right on the rebuild.
These carbs went right on without any alteration to the orig configuration, easy deal! While they are a little spendy, and not spot on in appearance, they fall in the category of " They worked for me"
Carl's Ford Parts. Link:
http://carlsfordparts.com/main.html (http://carlsfordparts.com/main.html)
No more reissue BJ BK carbs apparently given they are no longer part of his listed offerings.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 10:51:38 AM
The only "thing" with current carbs, if at all is an issue, is that the original FORD Holleys had a throttle that was made to use the production 427 2x4 linkages.
You can use the current throttle arms but they are not going to be "bolt on" and are going to need some "modification" to use.
It can be done. I applied a pair of "converted" (fuel bowls) of '85 Mustang GT carbs to a 2x4 intake. They have annular venturi and factory set to idle at 14.6:1. They actually worked quite well since they are "calibrated" to turn the mains on faster then the old 1850's and thus run just like they do on the mains.
I ran original Holley Custom Shop restored BC-BD's (before Drew was around offering services) and they work quite well on my SMALL block 347 with the C60A T/A intake. So I would say in my particular application, the engine is not over carb'd at all. In fact I would speculate that it is capable of running two double pumpers, providing modification of the fuel bowls is taken into consideration but that is untried.
Drew just had a pair of the original T/A mechanical carbs he restored for Cushman's T/A setup. You can see the physical differences between the "1850's" and the current double pumpers. I believe those are center squirters so not much of a recommended street application unless you were going "pro-street".
Drew may not be the absolute expert on all Holleys but he is highly knowledgable on the carbs that he has done, how they work and why, and how to apply them. I'd go with his recommendations otherwise you become somewhat of an alchamest like me being a rebel within the group of rebels.
That's ok if you are willing to deal with your own self created set backs and careful not to shoot yourself in the foot when you need to finish your "vision" on some sort of a schedule. What happens there is that you discover or maybe more correctly "realize" other possibilities that take you off of the yellow brick road to the Emerald City? ;) Lots of side streets to investigate.
Then you become like me with the same hair that the "Professor" has in "Back to the Future". Still can't figure out how to make these engines run on recycled garbage though?
hahaha, I really love your description, and can just picture the professor with the chair.
I really appreciate your input, this is the way I will follow
Best wishes / Jakob
Quote from: roger on November 30, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Several years back I refurbished my original bj/bk carbs including replating and recoloring where needed. While they are not going to fool anybody as far as assembly line appearance, I was pretty happy with them. After lots of tinkering, I got them working well. As stated earlier in this thread, they work amazingly well once you get them dialed in. I decided to buy a set of the new issue BK/BJ carbs from Branda, and put my original ones on the shelf. After installing the replacement set, I found basically no difference in the way the engine ran, so I thought I must of done something right on the rebuild.
These carbs went right on without any alteration to the orig configuration, easy deal! While they are a little spendy, and not spot on in appearance, they fall in the category of " They worked for me"
Many thanks. I was looking at the cobranda option, but seems they discontinued them :-/
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 30, 2022, 08:58:38 PM
Carl's Ford Parts. Link:
http://carlsfordparts.com/main.html (http://carlsfordparts.com/main.html)
Thanks royce
If it were me.... I would get on Drew's list ASAP.
Worth the wait IMHO.