Hi all,
I previously posted about suggestions for head/intake manifold gaskets. Thank you for all of your suggestions. Had a chance to remove everything today and sure enough, blown head gaskets on both sides (3 total cylinders). And holy crap, there is hardly any room to work under there. Everything is so tight!
Any who, I would consider ordering some headers to install on the car while the heads are off with the stock exhaust manifolds. Who is using headers and if so, which brand do you recommend for quality and fitment!?
Thanks,
Ryan
I went with FPA, Unfortunately, I cannot comment on fitment as I am still a few weeks out from installation. I has been a long process, but getting close now!
I have not had any luck adding attachments to my posts, but I did upload a pic into the gallery.
Ron
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=263
hookers supercomps
FPA. Quality build, fit very well, and the collectors sit slightly higher than the bottom of the bellhousing...so no scraping the ape knuckles on every speed bump.
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
So essentially what you have expressed is the headers are a pain in the rear. But ultimately you mention the hookers. So you would install the hookers.
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
FPA and keep all the original stuff stored for the future.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on June 22, 2018, 11:24:22 AM
So essentially what you have expressed is the headers are a pain in the rear. But ultimately you mention the hookers. So you would install the hookers.
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
Me? Yes. The Hookers but mine needed to be "fine tuned" with a ball peen hammer here and there so if they were coated first, that would have gotten beat up.
ALL of these headers are going to be some type of a compromise in an FE Mustang. ANY of them are going to be 80 to 100 hp better then the stock GT manifolds and MAYBE the CJ iron manifolds MIGHT be 10hp better then the GT's? Maybe?
I think 4 into 1 is better then tri-y's even if the primary tubes SHOULD be 2" instead of 1-3/4"?
When I had the Boss 351 in my 68 it had "Pro Comp" headers on it. 2" primaries. 36" long. 3-1/2" collectors. Fit like a vine clinging to the floor.
The big deal in an FE is the center two spark plugs on each head. They fall right onto the front uprights. Those are the trouble areas and the turn downs have little room there.
Stans headers were $1,100 the last time (3 years ago) and when I asked about the zbar he got all pissy, yelled at me to come into this century and use a hydraulic clutch, said I don't deserve his headers and hung up. So I guess if you are running an automatic trans, you're ok? Dunno.
The locals love him.
Gotcha the slight usage of a tap it wrench is a must and the power steering bracket massaging also when we had them
Enjoy your adventures
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
Was the taking off the heads direction some kind of a typo? I have never heard of someone taking off the cylinder heads to install headers :o. I only mention it because I could envision a collective "gulp" in the "force" as people read that . That might just scare the hell out of a newbie to FE Mustangs/Shelby's.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 22, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are
Was the taking off the heads direction some kind of a typo? I have never heard of someone taking off the cylinder heads to install headers :o. I only mention it because I could envision a collective "gulp" in the "force" as people read that . That might just scare the hell out of a newbie to FE Mustangs/Shelby's.
we concur
For heavy street action, I no longer believe headers are a must. Have you seen how small exhaust ports on modern engines with much higher power ratings are? Look at the ports on a modern LS7.
I am not saying headers aren't best for max power. So no arguing that.
Of course the 385 is a better engine design than the FE from the get go, but here is an interesting "cheater" motor with cast iron exhaust manifolds.
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2011/01/StopgapE28093StangE280941971-Ford-Mustang-Mach-1/3694811.html
Me? I would seriously consider a 428cj exhaust system with extrude honed cast iron manifolds for street use.
Pure stealth and still very good power potential.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 22, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
Was the taking off the heads direction some kind of a typo? I have never heard of someone taking off the cylinder heads to install headers :o. I only mention it because I could envision a collective "gulp" in the "force" as people read that . That might just scare the hell out of a newbie to FE Mustangs/Shelby's.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/196-220618134535.jpeg)
Quote from: BGlover67 on June 22, 2018, 01:46:24 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/196-220618134535.jpeg)
;D
Um, no.
.
^^^^^ NO, GT 500 owner will say that, he might think that for 15 minutes while changing plugs, but that will become a fleeting thought when he mashes on the loud pedal. There is no replacement for large displacement! That coming from a lover of all things fast, small and large engines. ;D
I will get the Hooker number I am running on 2 of my 427-428 powered cars. The fitment and performance is awesome, you will need to run a power steering drop down bracket no biggie you can get them anywhere go fast FE power products are sold.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 22, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
All, a controversial subject. Any of them however are better then stock iron manifolds. You can argue over the size of the primary tubes etc, but one thing for sure, there isn't any FE that needs tri-y headers for more torque.
The issue is installing a set. Some people pull off the heads, drop the headers in, get as many bolts started as they can, then bolt the heads back on.
The Hookers will fit but take a hammer with a ding here and a ding there to clear weird places of interference. The primary tubes are also on the small side. Collectors angle down a little to much since they are intended to run open on a race car, not necessarily plumb to a full exhaust system.
The real "Super comps" are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down like a gorilla dragging it's knuckles on the ground. They are also thinner for lower gross weight.
Personally I would recommend buying them uncoated, fitting them to your car, then send them out for coating.
Save the original manifolds for when you sell the car.
Was the taking off the heads direction some kind of a typo? I have never heard of someone taking off the cylinder heads to install headers :o. I only mention it because I could envision a collective "gulp" in the "force" as people read that . That might just scare the hell out of a newbie to FE Mustangs/Shelby's.
It wasn't a mistake by me. It was a while ago. I have to think about who told me that? I don't remember who at this moment.
I suppose you could install them in a weekend if your finger tips don't give out? At least in totally elapsed time, not considering the rest breaks and the time needed for your fingers to heal?
Everything is a trade off? I would think the "gasp" would be equally as profound by the Concourse people at the thought of someone putting headers on a nice '67 GT500? Depends on one's perspective? ;D
427heaven: Agreed on the mad love for the FE and all things fast.
But please send me your secret for only being frustrated for 15 minutes while changing plugs. That's more like 2 hours of swearing and bloody knuckles for me.
BTW: No power steering on my KR. It had been removed by PO before I bought the car back in '82, and I've come to like the "steering by armstrong" except when parallel parking on a busy boulevard. Saves me doing extra forearm reps at the gym, though.
A three foot long extension and the special socket with the built in universal on it. Makes changing the plugs much easier.
Can you post a picture of that setup? Any help with spark plug changing would be much appreciated!
I am photo challenged. Craftsman , Snap on , Harbor Freight etc , all have a 13/16ths plug socket with a built in universal on the end. The three foot extension allows you to "get away" from the confined area and out where you aren't cutting your hands up. We discussed this process at length before the crash happened.
Randy
Thanks Randy. I have that socket. I will buy a long extension and give it a try. Thanks.
Sorry to take this thread to changing spark plugs. But that goes along with which headers fit best.
Notice I didn't suggest any tricks on putting the headers on LOL That is a major pain. I have done it many times and still dread it. Good luck. In the end the performance gain IS worth it.
+ 1 no replacement for displacment
Any idea about what the FPA headers retail for..?
There are a few different variables to changing plugs. As Randy stated if you have a long extension it gets you away for some leverage. Depends on your strength,abilities,patience,and tool chest. To start you need a swivel or a universal joint built into the socket, the shorter the swivel the better. I use 1/2 inch drive and 3/8 and even a 1/4 inch drive to get the plugs out that have all ready been cracked loose. Make sure your socket has the rubber insert to hold onto your plugs MAKE SURE OK this will help you. I use mostly 12-18 inch extensions to crack them loose than put your handy dandy 1/4 inch drive set in there and walla not that big a deal. For those that are not well versed on this matter maybe 1/2 hour Listen, do, then report back we are here to help navigate the complex dinosaur world. ;D
Quote from: 557 on June 22, 2018, 05:55:40 PM
Any idea about what the FPA headers retail for..?
You need to call and get a quote from Stan. 3 years ago the price was $1,100.
Quote from: 557 on June 22, 2018, 05:55:40 PM
Any idea about what the FPA headers retail for..?
This happens to be in regards to 351C headers in a Mustang but it will give you a ballpark idea.
Yes we certainly do !! 3/8" one piece flanges 2v or 4V ports. 1 3/4" HD 16 Ga into 3" ball/ socket collectors all with MAX ground clearance !! 4 speed or "ANY" automatics. Std steer/ power steer with dropped bracket or Borgeson box upgrade. $695 bare/ + $275 in full ceramic coatings. Currently 3 weeks backlogged .
Stan
The ones to consider are Hooker super comps, they don't hang too low my cars are lowered and clear most everything. You will need to navigate steep driveways a little bit of an an angle. They have the 4 bolt flange on every port, they fit most any cylinder head combo you can come up with. Make sure you specify a MUSTANG and not a FAIRLANE they are different and ran those on my 67 427 fairlane equally as good. Good Luck
427heaven: Your plug changing procedure sounds a lot like mine. I use about a dozen combos of short/medium extensions, drive sizes, swivels, rubber-insert socket lengths, and swear words to get 'er done. My best time is about 90 minutes for all eight, but the most recent took over two hours and lots of blood. Either I'm getting slower or my car is finding new ways to thwart me.
Thanks for the added tips and tricks. I will try them all. (Hopefully I won't need another plug change for a year or so, though!)
Glad to help... In the beginning I have put combos of words together that would make a drunken sailor proud, at the time I was also proud, now an occasional burst of something under my breath escapes sometimes. With practice you will get much better just don't attempt in the blazing sun. Hope this stuff helps.
Well here's my two cents... ;) I installed JBA tri y's on my previous 67 Shelby clone build. I still have the Hooker headers but deamed they would hang down too low for my build. I used the clone as a "measuring stick" to see what would work or didn't work on my 67 Shelby. I also dropped the A arms 1 inch AND used the TMC front coils with a drop. The rake was perfect and it drove nice!
Header issues!! It was the single, hardest and most frustrating thing I've EVER done on a car!! EVER! The JBA's were built beautifully, fit was about 90%. I still had to flatten out one side tube about 3/8", while in the car!! When installed I literally had 3/8" on the passenger side and 5/16" on the driver side shock towers. The main problem was I had typical 12-6 8 bolt pattern heads (427 style). I tried every single way you can think of to install them. I cussed so loud my wife thought I'd hurt myself! She tried with her small hands to install the lower bolts on the drivers side and cussed! Like said before, it's the sharp angles on tubes 2/3, 6/6 that make it impossible. Installed, they worked great but dear Jesus!
I have a really huge challenge now as I want to install a special 427 in my Shelby. It requires BIG tube headers. I have the correct 428 on the side for originality. I've looked at headers till I'm blue. The best header I've found that FITS and is performance oriented is from REF in Arizona. They're really nice and really pricey, about $1600. The key is they're individual tubes and they are built on a jig to your specs! T pan, Lakewood, 4spd, etc, no problem.
I've even thought of building my own similar style with a local builder. I have a 67 coupe, the mock up block and everything to help build some "perfect" headers. I even fielded interest in building multiple sets but it's a lot of development costs. I tried some headers from my local guy, similar to a 60's drag racing design. They are really nice! BUT, I do plan on turning more than a few degrees left or right! ;)
I got pics of the headers that fit but can't seemed to post them.
Simply, a big block Mustang isn't cheap by any means and while a SB is way easier you can't replace the shear torque of a tuned FE! Did I mention I created new tools to help with the installation??
Regards, Matt
What I would suggest is that you use the Hooker headers. It's the collectors that are what seem low.
Put them in the car, then cut the collector, angle it up, tack weld it in place, then take them out weld them up and put the finish on them.
If you do that, they are likely to be the best fit that exists. The individual tube routing is fine.
They are low in that area by about 1/2 the thickness of the tube or in other words, they could go up right there by about 3/4". The collector angles down from that spot and makes them look lower.
IF you look at the head flow numbers on even the 427 heads, the flow numbers are not that impressive in today's terms. The 1-3/4" tubes are actually sufficient.
The reality is big tube headers will not make more power UNLESS you increase the intake flow. That really means a nice aftermarket head. Not a factory iron head.
DO NOT use the 427 MR bolt pattern head. Use the 428CJ bolt pattern.
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 22, 2018, 08:50:14 PM
What I would suggest is that you use the Hooker headers. It's the collectors that are what seem low.
Put them in the car, then cut the collector, angle it up, tack weld it in place, then take them out weld them up and put the finish on them.
If you do that, they are likely to be the best fit that exists. The individual tube routing is fine.
They are low in that area by about 1/2 the thickness of the tube or in other words, they could go up right there by about 3/4". The collector angles down from that spot and makes them look lower.
IF you look at the head flow numbers on even the 427 heads, the flow numbers are not that impressive in today's terms. The 1-3/4" tubes are actually sufficient.
The reality is big tube headers will not make more power UNLESS you increase the intake flow. That really means a nice aftermarket head. Not a factory iron head.
DO NOT use the 427 MR bolt pattern head. Use the 428CJ bolt pattern.
+ 1 hookers
Thanks shelbydoug. Well my heads flow 375-380 cfm. It's actually a 67 NASCAR Tunnel Port with a GT40 LeMans Dual Plane intake, 496 CI, detuned... I know, I know... Special car- special motor, lots of background stories.
I don't have a 428 CJ bolt pattern, first problem. Yes, the Hookers could be modified but still won't seal up good enough I'm afraid. I'd hate to loose too much HP by smaller tubes. The only real way to make a TP work is big cubes.
It's all a fun project without altering the original set up. More sentimental than anything.
Regards, Matt
What a great engine package. Try a custom set of Kooks they are jewelry for performance or race applications. :)
Custom set.
Hand made
Problem solved
I have jet hot coated 6114 Hooker Super Comps. They fit perfect and I didn't have to ding or bend anything for clearance. They were perfect. What I do suggest is opening up the bolt holes slightly in the flange. You'll also need the drop bracket for the power steering cylinder. The only place that is a bitch to change plugs is the left rear two plugs by the booster/master cylinder. The other trick I use is removing the valve covers. It really does free up a lot of room. Yes, you have to remove the export brace to remove the valve covers. Be sure to use a little dielectric grease on the plug boots too. The only big block mustang I struggled with to the point of throwing tools was a 1967 390. The shock towers were the issue. They had cracked and shifted. As usual, I can't post pictures.
-Keith
I would suspect that there is enough variation in each set of Hookers to show these installation variations.
What I did was take a set of used headers that had already been fit to the car.
In these cars even the upper a-arm studs and nuts can get in the way.
Traditionally, a 427 Ford is no more high a rever then a 428 is. There is about another 500rpm in them considering that you use an aftermarket camshaft, valve springs, rods and bolts.
Even the GT40 MkII's that won at Lemans were limited rpm wise to 6,000 rpms.
There are two main problems with racing the original 427's. 1)The valve spring technology limited the rpms 2) the blocks can't handle the rpm
It's virtue was/is that it puts down 550 lb-ft or torque almost from 1,500 rpm on a very flat torque curve (almost straight) to the red line and that it was installed in a 2,500 pound car creating a land cruise missile called the Cobra.
As I remember shopping for a used 427 Cobra, I couldn't find one with even 5,000 miles that either didn't have a broken engine or already had a non-broken one installed. These are not Formula 1 race engines by any means. Even trying to find a nice used block that wasn't broken was challenging.
It's ironic that even small block Windsors now make more horsepower and almost as much torque then the traditional 450hp the original engines show on the dyno.
All that considered it' probably a big part of the equation why so many GT500's have been returned to stock or close to it.
You can get big tube headers into the car but getting the tube lengths equal are virtually impossible. You need equal length tubes for big hp numbers.
I do seem to remember though that Doug's had a set of big tube 180's with slip tubes offered for a short time around '67-8 for a while. The problem back then with headers was that there was no way to keep paint on them and certainly no one would build stainless versions because of the basic tube benders even the header manufacturers were using couldn't handle the stainless tubing right.
I can't think of even one set of those headers I have seen for sale in the last 45 years. I do know of one set for a Boss 302. Those were big tubes (2-1/8" I think) but they just rusted away.
If you are going to turn big rpm's with a "427" you need an aftermarket block. A Pond or the equivalent. There's a reason original 427 blocks are so difficult to find. Most of them broke.
Why do I say all this, because the limitations make installing "NASA BUILT" headers with this combination are just a noble academic exercise in futility. The Hookers will do everything I need.
"Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - Winston Churchill.
Best of luck on your endeavor. Dilly, dilly! ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 23, 2018, 07:30:27 AM
I would suspect that there is enough variation in each set of Hookers to show these installation variations.
What I did was take a set of used headers that had already been fit to the car.
In these cars even the upper a-arm studs and nuts can get in the way.
Traditionally, a 427 Ford is no more high a rever then a 428 is. There is about another 500rpm in them considering that you use an aftermarket camshaft, valve springs, rods and bolts.
Even the GT40 MkII's that won at Lemans were limited rpm wise to 6,000 rpms.
There are two main problems with racing the original 427's. 1)The valve spring technology limited the rpms 2) the blocks can't handle the rpm
It's virtue was/is that it puts down 550 lb-ft or torque almost from 1,500 rpm on a very flat torque curve (almost straight) to the red line and that it was installed in a 2,500 pound car creating a land cruise missile called the Cobra.
As I remember shopping for a used 427 Cobra, I couldn't find one with even 5,000 miles that either didn't have a broken engine or already had a non-broken one installed. These are not Formula 1 race engines by any means. Even trying to find a nice used block that wasn't broken was challenging.
It's ironic that even small block Windsors now make more horsepower and almost as much torque then the traditional 450hp the original engines show on the dyno.
All that considered it' probably a big part of the equation why so many GT500's have been returned to stock or close to it.
You can get big tube headers into the car but getting the tube lengths equal are virtually impossible. You need equal length tubes for big hp numbers.
I do seem to remember though that Doug's had a set of big tube 180's with slip tubes offered for a short time around '67-8 for a while. The problem back then with headers was that there was no way to keep paint on them and certainly no one would build stainless versions because of the basic tube benders even the header manufacturers were using couldn't handle the stainless tubing right.
I can't think of even one set of those headers I have seen for sale in the last 45 years. I do know of one set for a Boss 302. Those were big tubes (2-1/8" I think) but they just rusted away.
If you are going to turn big rpm's with a "427" you need an aftermarket block. A Pond or the equivalent. There's a reason original 427 blocks are so difficult to find. Most of them broke.
Why do I say all this, because the limitations make installing "NASA BUILT" headers with this combination are just a noble academic exercise in futility. The Hookers will do everything I need.
"Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - Winston Churchill.
Best of luck on your endeavor. Dilly, dilly! ;)
+ 1 very well expressed
Agreed with everything you say Shelbydoug.
Like most projects with background stories, they always started off with good intentions. My cars previous owner always wanted a car with "500 HP". We are still best friends and I had the motor that could provide. That was the plan at least. To pair up arguably the baddest car available from 1967 with the engine that won everything for Ford that same year!
All things being a given, rebuilding a 428 compared to a 427 isn't too much different in between, most of the time.
My engine was a legit 67 Holman Moody NASCAR TP. The block was even a standard bore side oiler that "looked" perfect. Well it wasn't. The engine builder is one of best FE builders known WITH experiences on the TP, it's a different animal. He found stress cracks at the main bearing oiling holes on all three mains!! This block was probably never used past a Dyno as it was truly perfect. Thankfully he was able to locate a new BBM block as they are very scarce. That added an extra 5K to the project! Then in efforts to maximize "street able" HP/TQ a NOS dual plane GT40 "XE" 2x4 intake was sourced and used. This intake was still in its original box and one of 24 made! This is the same intake used at LeMans. This intake was marked $16, it was matched to a set of aluminum heads with $16 too, at one time. This intake visually looks just like the stock dual plane used on a 67 GT500 with two extra bolts. Dressed out with all the stock items it's almost virtually undetectable. The heads were actually filled and ports were closed up in efforts to improve the CSA's. The intake was matched and modified to inhance the CSA's. This identical set up with a more aggressive cam and single plane 2x4 intake made 712 HP! I didn't need those numbers. We still haven't dynoned the engine but it's expected to make a honest 600-620 HP/TQ.
I told the builder, " I just want to make HP/TQ effortlessly". Build it for strength and longevity. It has the BBM block, RPM billet crank, SCAT rods, forged custom race pistons, upgraded valvetrain, T&D roller rockers, etc. It should be the ticket.
When I installed the individual tube headers to mock it up, they worked much much better. They are more equal length as they curl around in and out. These just need more work to clear the pitman and idler arms. And ground clearances too. You can change the starter easier by only taking a tube out for clearances. To make the headers in stainless steel adds $3k to the price, so $4600!!! I can't imagine how much inconel headers would be!!
I've got EVERYTHING to mock up this motor in a spare 67 coupe, it might just be the way to go. If you need to make changes on the fly, you can. I know many are pleased with the REF headers but that's still a gamble and a long ways away from GA to AR! It's all doable, just money and time...
I'll also make a nod 4 Super Comps. Like those .
Quote from: 67GT500#1594 on June 23, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
Agreed with everything you say Shelbydoug.
Like most projects with background stories, they always started off with good intentions. My cars previous owner always wanted a car with "500 HP". We are still best friends and I had the motor that could provide. That was the plan at least. To pair up arguably the baddest car available from 1967 with the engine that won everything for Ford that same year!
All things being a given, rebuilding a 428 compared to a 427 isn't too much different in between, most of the time.
My engine was a legit 67 Holman Moody NASCAR TP. The block was even a standard bore side oiler that "looked" perfect. Well it wasn't. The engine builder is one of best FE builders known WITH experiences on the TP, it's a different animal. He found stress cracks at the main bearing oiling holes on all three mains!! This block was probably never used past a Dyno as it was truly perfect. Thankfully he was able to locate a new BBM block as they are very scarce. That added an extra 5K to the project! Then in efforts to maximize "street able" HP/TQ a NOS dual plane GT40 "XE" 2x4 intake was sourced and used. This intake was still in its original box and one of 24 made! This is the same intake used at LeMans. This intake was marked $16, it was matched to a set of aluminum heads with $16 too, at one time. This intake visually looks just like the stock dual plane used on a 67 GT500 with two extra bolts. Dressed out with all the stock items it's almost virtually undetectable. The heads were actually filled and ports were closed up in efforts to improve the CSA's. The intake was matched and modified to inhance the CSA's. This identical set up with a more aggressive cam and single plane 2x4 intake made 712 HP! I didn't need those numbers. We still haven't dynoned the engine but it's expected to make a honest 600-620 HP/TQ.
I told the builder, " I just want to make HP/TQ effortlessly". Build it for strength and longevity. It has the BBM block, RPM billet crank, SCAT rods, forged custom race pistons, upgraded valvetrain, T&D roller rockers, etc. It should be the ticket.
When I installed the individual tube headers to mock it up, they worked much much better. They are more equal length as they curl around in and out. These just need more work to clear the pitman and idler arms. And ground clearances too. You can change the starter easier by only taking a tube out for clearances. To make the headers in stainless steel adds $3k to the price, so $4600!!! I can't imagine how much inconel headers would be!!
I've got EVERYTHING to mock up this motor in a spare 67 coupe, it might just be the way to go. If you need to make changes on the fly, you can. I know many are pleased with the REF headers but that's still a gamble and a long ways away from GA to AR! It's all doable, just money and time...
Did I just detect a statement from you that says you are going to use FORD ALUMINUM HEADS? OMG! DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE FORD ALUMINUM HEADS!
Back in the day before God created light, Ford had this "BRILLIANT IDEA" of lightening engine parts for COMPETITION ONLY use. Their FE heads were no exception.
Now on the surface, the THOUGHT is genius. The problem was that the head engineer was George Castanza's Grand Father.
What they did was take the molds for the iron heads and just pour aluminium into them. There in lies the problem. THOSE heads will RARELY survive one 500 mile race.
When you change metals, you need to change the molds. By Fords OWN admission, you can't run over 10.3:1 compression with them because they are SO thin, the combustion chambers will crumble.
To add insult to the injury, to go over 6,000 rpm, you needed to put stronger valve springs in them and then the walls in the valve pockets between the intake and the exhaust CRACK creating coolant leaks into both the intake and exhaust ports!
They are so thin, that when you reweld them, you need to insert aluminum gussets into the water passages to keep them from braking again AND you cannot polish down the built up weld in the ports to return the flow to the head.
I had a set of the C6FE6049B, aluminum medium riser heads. The ones that they put in the 66 GT40 MkIV heads and incidentally the same ones as in the Super Snake.
All I can tell you is that I only got them on a deal because they were both broken (as described above). I took them to Diamond on LI (Diamond Pro Stock Racing chassis). They were the only ones crazy enough to think that they could be repaired.
The Ford valve seats were originally some kind of iconel super space stuff which at the time were not obtainable. Ford got the material out of the "space program" and had the seats machined themselves since it was all classified "National Defense Materials" and only available to National Defense Contractors.
Well Diamond did what they could. They got the iron BB Chevy cast iron ones and pressed them in.
As I recall, there were two cylinders involved on each head.
Well what happened is that every time they would press the seats in, the head would recrack back down into the ports.
This went on for at least four episodes, three different welders and eventually the seats got installed without recracking the ports BUT the amount of weld that needed to be left on the surface of the port virtually ruined the flow.
I remember the welders words "DON'T UNDER ANY CONDITIONS TOUCH THE WELDS".
So ok, this is my sorrowful story and maybe yours will be different BUT virtually EVERYONE who has tried to use ANY of the FE original Ford aluminum castings has described them the same way. Just a bucket of shit waiting to spill all over you at any minute.
If I were you, put them back into those original boxes and put them on Ebay and get what you can for them.
I would predict there is some fool who will probably offer you $10,000, for the heads alone and if that is the magnesium intake, probably another $10,000 for it to.
Take the money and run. Run as far as you can, then hide, because when that engine gets put together and breaks, someone with a lot of money is going to get very, very pissed and look for revenge.
Billy Joel has a lyric in "pressure". It says paraphrasing here, "you have no scars on your face". It isn't so much about having grey hair (which I have plenty of BUT I got hair), it's about surviving these "episodes" without having even been shot once...so far at least. ;)
In Ford's case, they didn't care. In your case, you will. They'll come looking for you. You might need to change your name too? May your journey be as wondrous as mine. Interesting people that one meets along the roadside when broken down waiting for the tow.
I paid $1038 for my FPA headers last June 2017.
The set-up includes ceramic coating ($235), p/s drop bracket ($39), headers for a 427 MR with C6 trans ($695) plus shipping and packing.
I would imagine the price is similar for a 4 speed trans.
Ron
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 23, 2018, 09:40:15 AM
Quote from: 67GT500#1594 on June 23, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
Agreed with everything you say Shelbydoug.
Like most projects with background stories, they always started off with good intentions. My cars previous owner always wanted a car with "500 HP". We are still best friends and I had the motor that could provide. That was the plan at least. To pair up arguably the baddest car available from 1967 with the engine that won everything for Ford that same year!
All things being a given, rebuilding a 428 compared to a 427 isn't too much different in between, most of the time.
My engine was a legit 67 Holman Moody NASCAR TP. The block was even a standard bore side oiler that "looked" perfect. Well it wasn't. The engine builder is one of best FE builders known WITH experiences on the TP, it's a different animal. He found stress cracks at the main bearing oiling holes on all three mains!! This block was probably never used past a Dyno as it was truly perfect. Thankfully he was able to locate a new BBM block as they are very scarce. That added an extra 5K to the project! Then in efforts to maximize "street able" HP/TQ a NOS dual plane GT40 "XE" 2x4 intake was sourced and used. This intake was still in its original box and one of 24 made! This is the same intake used at LeMans. This intake was marked $16, it was matched to a set of aluminum heads with $16 too, at one time. This intake visually looks just like the stock dual plane used on a 67 GT500 with two extra bolts. Dressed out with all the stock items it's almost virtually undetectable. The heads were actually filled and ports were closed up in efforts to improve the CSA's. The intake was matched and modified to inhance the CSA's. This identical set up with a more aggressive cam and single plane 2x4 intake made 712 HP! I didn't need those numbers. We still haven't dynoned the engine but it's expected to make a honest 600-620 HP/TQ.
I told the builder, " I just want to make HP/TQ effortlessly". Build it for strength and longevity. It has the BBM block, RPM billet crank, SCAT rods, forged custom race pistons, upgraded valvetrain, T&D roller rockers, etc. It should be the ticket.
When I installed the individual tube headers to mock it up, they worked much much better. They are more equal length as they curl around in and out. These just need more work to clear the pitman and idler arms. And ground clearances too. You can change the starter easier by only taking a tube out for clearances. To make the headers in stainless steel adds $3k to the price, so $4600!!! I can't imagine how much inconel headers would be!!
I've got EVERYTHING to mock up this motor in a spare 67 coupe, it might just be the way to go. If you need to make changes on the fly, you can. I know many are pleased with the REF headers but that's still a gamble and a long ways away from GA to AR! It's all doable, just money and time...
Did I just detect a statement from you that says you are going to use FORD ALUMINUM HEADS? OMG! DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE FORD ALUMINUM HEADS!
Back in the day before God created light, Ford had this "BRILLIANT IDEA" of lightening engine parts for COMPETITION ONLY use. Their FE heads were no exception.
Now on the surface, the THOUGHT is genius. The problem was that the head engineer was George Castanza's Grand Father.
What they did was take the molds for the iron heads and just pour aluminium into them. There in lies the problem. THOSE heads will RARELY survive one 500 mile race.
When you change metals, you need to change the molds. By Fords OWN admission, you can't run over 10.3:1 compression with them because they are SO thin, the combustion chambers will crumble.
To add insult to the injury, to go over 6,000 rpm, you needed to put stronger valve springs in them and then the walls in the valve pockets between the intake and the exhaust CRACK creating coolant leaks into both the intake and exhaust ports!
They are so thin, that when you reweld them, you need to insert aluminum gussets into the water passages to keep them from braking again AND you cannot polish down the built up weld in the ports to return the flow to the head.
I had a set of the C6FE6049B, aluminum medium riser heads. The ones that they put in the 66 GT40 MkIV heads and incidentally the same ones as in the Super Snake.
All I can tell you is that I only got them on a deal because they were both broken (as described above). I took them to Diamond on LI (Diamond Pro Stock Racing chassis). They were the only ones crazy enough to think that they could be repaired.
The Ford valve seats were originally some kind of iconel super space stuff which at the time were not obtainable. Ford got the material out of the "space program" and had the seats machined themselves since it was all classified "National Defense Materials" and only available to National Defense Contractors.
Well Diamond did what they could. They got the iron BB Chevy cast iron ones and pressed them in.
As I recall, there were two cylinders involved on each head.
Well what happened is that every time they would press the seats in, the head would recrack back down into the ports.
This went on for at least four episodes, three different welders and eventually the seats got installed without recracking the ports BUT the amount of weld that needed to be left on the surface of the port virtually ruined the flow.
I remember the welders words "DON'T UNDER ANY CONDITIONS TOUCH THE WELDS".
So ok, this is my sorrowful story and maybe yours will be different BUT virtually EVERYONE who has tried to use ANY of the FE original Ford aluminum castings has described them the same way. Just a bucket of shit waiting to spill all over you at any minute.
If I were you, put them back into those original boxes and put them on Ebay and get what you can for them.
I would predict there is some fool who will probably offer you $10,000, for the heads alone and if that is the magnesium intake, probably another $10,000 for it to.
Take the money and run. Run as far as you can, then hide, because when that engine gets put together and breaks, someone with a lot of money is going to get very, very pissed and look for revenge.
Billy Joel has a lyric in "pressure". It says paraphrasing here, "you have no scars on your face". It isn't so much about having grey hair (which I have plenty of BUT I got hair), it's about surviving these "episodes" without having even been shot once...so far at least. ;)
In Ford's case, they didn't care. In your case, you will. They'll come looking for you. You might need to change your name too? May your journey be as wondrous as mine. Interesting people that one meets along the roadside when broken down waiting for the tow.
+1 with a bad experience which included several blown head gaskets that lead to a change to a non Ford brand aluminum head.
NO Aluminum Ford heads!!! My heads are iron. My intake has a "XE" part number. It also has another hand scribed XE part number on it too with "$16". From the FE forum the $16 refers to creating matched sets between the intakes and heads. I met a guy that had one $16 head and one $14 head and wanted my intake. These intakes are extremely rare and hard to obtain. Basically two motors for every J car made. Crazy!
Inconel headers have been NASCAR standards for over a decade now. Still pricey but sure are nice and strong. If I can get some custom headers that fit well and are easier to install, then stainless isn't really an option too. I'll probably have my local guy make a set, then make a jig, make a set off the jig, test fit them to my 67 coupe, and repeat. He builds beautiful headers too he just needs the set up to get started.
I think you're thinking of beryllium Valve seats. Those are crazy expensive and work really nice on race motors. I had all new seats, guides and seals installed. But not beryllium. The builder wanted new valves as well.
If I could get pics posted I'd do it but only have an IPad and can't figure out the process. Any help!!
This motor won't ever see high RPM's like back in the day. That was the only way to get them to run. With 496CI, with a standard bore, I think we've got the cubes covered. It should be able to breath just fine now. ;)
Unfortunately the aluminum Ford heads are only good for display. They are very pretty and as such are VERY seductive.
They even leak oil through the drainback holes in the corners.
The castings must be so thin that when you torque the heads down, the head must flex enough not to compress the gasket to seal?
I'm wondering if the secret is to use dead soft copper for a head gasket so it squashes like silly putty?
Of all the engines to have issues with, an FE in a Mustang, they are truly a story of education by hard knocks.
I have no idea how they were ever raced. The reality is that they are total trash. You have to see it to believe it. No one believes it when I tell them. They just shrug it off as another one of my delusions?
Incidentally, when I asked Diamond for a receipt, he said "why, they're only worth $.23 a pound"(and they are light). He was using BB Chevy Pro Stock heads to hold the doors open so he wasn't impressed by Ford racing trash.
I think that I am wrong about the compression ratio. I think they have to be kept under 10:1? Not 10.3. Otherwise you collapse the chambers.
I don't know any of the previous owners of the SS. I'm wondering if they had the same experiences? The C6 is the improved head over the C5. The mind boggles.
In my own defense on those heads though at the time much of this was all proprietary information. Even the cold lash settings of closing down the valve clearances by .006", because the head expands when the engine warms up was not readily available information then. Race teams deemed this all as closely held secrets and "you" were the opposition.
NOBODY was talking. The Pro Stock guys won't even tell you what RPM they come off the line at.
Simplify your life now. Use Edelbrocks. They flow better then the originals ever did and they won't break by bolting them on.
I have used both, hooker and FPA, I would never buy a set of hookers for a FE mustang again, only issue installing fpa was clutch linkage frame and block mount 1/4" up, spacer plate at frame and modified block mount, all worked great, if your not drag racing,you will not loose that much hp ,and they don't drag on the ground
Well we all have experienced different things like header fitment issues. I like the Hooker super comps so much I am going to install a third set on my 68 cj gt vert 4 gear. I am not too good at posting pics but they fit nicely nary a foul word uttered upon installation.
"I have used both, hooker and FPA, I would never buy a set of hookers for a FE mustang again, only issue installing fpa was clutch linkage frame and block mount 1/4" up, spacer plate at frame and modified block mount, all worked great, if your not drag racing,you will not loose that much hp ,and they don't drag on the ground."
Say "Hi" to Stan for me. I want to hear him slam the phone down on you too? ;)
I've noticed that depending on where you are, the height of the ground can vary? :o
After a while, the pain, any pain becomes normalized. ::)
I never liked the way the stock H pipe hangs low, then curves up. The location of the collectors on the Hookers is similar but a bit more exaggerated. They only appear to be low because of the angle which is downward rather then horizontal or upward like the original h-pipe.
Each of these manufacturers have a slightly different purpose in mind when making these kind of decisions.
There are many purchasers that will make small modifications to those designs. Taking a hammer and dinging a tube here or there for a slight clearancing, etc. The location of collectors on the Hookers lend themselves well to being cut, angled up and rewelded. The design has been made for years and there are hundreds if not thousands of sets sold since probably just after the US Civil War?
The procedure is called "fitting the headers". Remember that term. It's been used before many times. It's doubtful that the term will go obsolete anytime soon?
It can be a necessary procedure on any headers. That's the reality.
If any of this is too abstract and requires too much thought process and effort, don't do any headers, stay in bed, turn out the lights and pull the covers over your head. You are a big boy now and you need to put on your big boy pants and come out in the light.
No where in the real world is anyone going to serve you on a silver platter except maybe your Mama? Certainly header manufacturers won't, never will and never have.
You are modifying the car with headers and there is rarely a true bolt on. It can happen, but rarely.
There is just no other way to say it, installing headers in an FE powered Mustang is one of THE most difficult things anyone can do. If this scares people away...so be it. I don't want to hear, "you guys should have told me first, rather than sugar coat it." This is not for a novice to do. ;D
Jay Bittle still owns a '67 GT500. When he started his header company in the '70s he was quoted as saying "I'm going to make the ultimate GT500 header". What JBA now sells IS NOT THAT HEADER.
Tri-y's on an FE are to make it easier to make them. NOT for performance. You do not need more torque in even a 390.
I still call over there once in a while and ask when they are going to be ready. Still...not yet? Needs more time?
If he ever got that done, he ain't sayin'.
Hey Jay? What's up? ;D
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
Good find. Best of luck. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
It is about a 8 hour job . If you can do it faster I'll the better. don't forget the ps drop bracket . FYI you need to reinforce the drop bracket. The leverage is significant. they will often pull the nut zerts right out of the frame. Many end up welding them permanent and they still will break at the base. Best of luck.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2018, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
It is about a 8 hour job . If you can do it faster I'll the better. don't forget the ps drop bracket . FYI you need to reinforce the drop bracket. The leverage is significant. they will often pull the nut zerts right out of the frame. Many end up welding them permanent and they still will break at the base. Best of luck.
Bob,
Thank you! Just ordered the Hooker brand P/S bracket from Jegs. Should be in by tomorrow. My Father in Law and I look forward to the challenge!
Ryan
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 23, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
"I have used both, hooker and FPA, I would never buy a set of hookers for a FE mustang again, only issue installing fpa was clutch linkage frame and block mount 1/4" up, spacer plate at frame and modified block mount, all worked great, if your not drag racing,you will not loose that much hp ,and they don't drag on the ground."
Say "Hi" to Stan for me. I want to hear him slam the phone down on you too? ;)
I've noticed that depending on where you are, the height of the ground can vary? :o
After a while, the pain, any pain becomes normalized. ::)
I never liked the way the stock H pipe hangs low, then curves up. The location of the collectors on the Hookers is similar but a bit more exaggerated. They only appear to be low because of the angle which is downward rather then horizontal or upward like the original h-pipe.
Each of these manufacturers have a slightly different purpose in mind when making these kind of decisions.
There are many purchasers that will make small modifications to those designs. Taking a hammer and dinging a tube here or there for a slight clearancing, etc. The location of collectors on the Hookers lend themselves well to being cut, angled up and rewelded. The design has been made for years and there are hundreds if not thousands of sets sold since probably just after the US Civil War?
The procedure is called "fitting the headers". Remember that term. It's been used before many times. It's doubtful that the term will go obsolete anytime soon?
It can be a necessary procedure on any headers. That's the reality.
If any of this is too abstract and requires too much thought process and effort, don't do any headers, stay in bed, turn out the lights and pull the covers over your head. You are a big boy now and you need to put on your big boy pants and come out in the light.
No where in the real world is anyone going to serve you on a silver platter except maybe your Mama? Certainly header manufacturers won't, never will and never have.
You are modifying the car with headers and there is rarely a true bolt on. It can happen, but rarely.
There is just no other way to say it, installing headers in an FE powered Mustang is one of THE most difficult things anyone can do. If this scares people away...so be it. I don't want to hear, "you guys should have told me first, rather than sugar coat it." This is not for a novice to do. ;D
Jay Bittle still owns a '67 GT500. When he started his header company in the '70s he was quoted as saying "I'm going to make the ultimate GT500 header". What JBA now sells IS NOT THAT HEADER.
Tri-y's on an FE are to make it easier to make them. NOT for performance. You do not need more torque in even a 390.
I still call over there once in a while and ask when they are going to be ready. Still...not yet? Needs more time?
If he ever got that done, he ain't sayin'.
Hey Jay? What's up? ;D. Bittles car still got the 427 tunnelport in it???
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2018, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
It is about a 8 hour job . If you can do it faster I'll the better. don't forget the ps drop bracket . FYI you need to reinforce the drop bracket. The leverage is significant. they will often pull the nut zerts right out of the frame. Many end up welding them permanent and they still will break at the base. Best of luck.
Bob,
Thank you! Just ordered the Hooker brand P/S bracket from Jegs. Should be in by tomorrow. My Father in Law and I look forward to the challenge!
Ryan
You can do it... There will be real world help here for those asking. Im on my third set together great things can happen. ;)
Quote from: 557 on June 28, 2018, 01:28:31 PM
Bittles car still got the 427 tunnelport in it???
[/quote]
Unknown.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2018, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
It is about a 8 hour job . If you can do it faster I'll the better. don't forget the ps drop bracket . FYI you need to reinforce the drop bracket. The leverage is significant. they will often pull the nut zerts right out of the frame. Many end up welding them permanent and they still will break at the base. Best of luck.
I'd recommending putting a flange nut inside of the chassis on those bolts and not welding the bracket. That will give you the option of returning the car to stock easier.
When you are done with these headers, even if you are a novice now, you won't be when they are done.
They will work well if you replace the stock exhaust system with individual Flow Masters sitting in the floor pan indentations and using 2-1/2" tubing. The only restriction left in the system would be the Shelby exhaust tips because they are necked down.
In the last while, I have helped my friend put Hookers on his 68 Mustang 390 auto car, and we were able to bolt the drivers side on while the engine was out. Then sit the right side in the car and then slip the engine in. Once we had in most of the way there, we were able to pull the header up and bolt it or.. I have also just done that the same way with FPA headers on my 67GT500 4 speed car.. Hope that is of some help..
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 28, 2018, 02:43:52 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2018, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on June 28, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
Wow!
Love the responses. Wasn't expecting to see so many responses to my topic!
Ironically enough, I was able to find a guy locally who happened to be selling a set of unused ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. Picked them up yesterday and plan to install tomorrow. We will see how they go.
Ryan
It is about a 8 hour job . If you can do it faster I'll the better. don't forget the ps drop bracket . FYI you need to reinforce the drop bracket. The leverage is significant. they will often pull the nut zerts right out of the frame. Many end up welding them permanent and they still will break at the base. Best of luck.
I'd recommending putting a flange nut inside of the chassis on those bolts and not welding the bracket. That will give you the option of returning the car to stock easier.
When you are done with these headers, even if you are a novice now, you won't be when they are done.
They will work well if you replace the stock exhaust system with individual Flow Masters sitting in the floor pan indentations and using 2-1/2" tubing. The only restriction left in the system would be the Shelby exhaust tips because they are necked down.
On one of my cars I made up a tip out of 3 inch tube and had one end squeezed down to fit over the 2 1/2 exhaust and the other end cut at a angle to mimic the stock tip. I had it chromed and it looks pretty stealth.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2018, 03:54:34 PM
On one of my cars I made up a tip out of 3 inch tube and had one end squeezed down to fit over the 2 1/2 exhaust and the other end cut at a angle to mimic the stock tip. I had it chromed and it looks pretty stealth.
Nice!
Theres no wrong way to install headers just different ways. Heres how I did it, jack the car up in the back as high as you can get it this does a couple of things. Im bigger than most guys so this gives you access under the car and makes it nice to get to the front of the engine. Make sure you use proper jack stands so we can here back from you. Another tip is to remove the valve covers, pent roofs are a pain in the arse and wont let big hands down towards the back of the engine. Loosen both engine mounts and trans mount just enough for a little wiggling you will need this for installing. Remove plug wires and plugs I know it sounds time consuming but you will gain lots of time doing so. Put tissue paper in exhaust ports for the safety factor don't want ANY junk in there. Slide those hp makers in with slow steady increments another set of hands and eyeballs is always a good thing for the first time doing this. The ingredient is having assorted swivels and end wrenches and extensions most guys have this stuff in the tool boxes if not a trip to your local hardware store is in order. Good Luck we are waiting to here back from you. If you get in a bind I will personally get you unstuck. ;)
Quote from: 67gt500 on June 28, 2018, 03:50:43 PM
In the last while, I have helped my friend put Hookers on his 68 Mustang 390 auto car, and we were able to bolt the drivers side on while the engine was out. Then sit the right side in the car and then slip the engine in. Once we had in most of the way there, we were able to pull the header up and bolt it or.. I have also just done that the same way with FPA headers on my 67GT500 4 speed car.. Hope that is of some help..
AH HA! THE CASE IS SOL VED! :D
On a new install I have heard you can lay the headers in place and slowly lower the new engine in place. A different way for sure maybe easier I don't know. But an existing install I have had pretty good success as outlined previously. Good Luck-
When I re-installed my engine I removed all engine mount bracketry from the block. Set the flanges above the mounts and lower the engine in. Put them on, re-install the block mount plates and mounts. Set it down. It was about a four hour job with two people. I personally do not install the two lower center bolts.
Just food for thought.
-Keith