Can someone ID the correct starter for a 69 GT350, automatic? I have a few but they do not have any stampings.
Quote from: aboss4tg on March 18, 2023, 04:46:19 PM
Can someone ID the correct starter for a 69 GT350, automatic? I have a few but they do not have any stampings.
Can you post a couple of pictures of the 2 ear starters you have? The one you are requiring about is one of the most common style starters.
I am not able to add photos for some reason.
Of the four starters I have one reads, American Motors 3212235-USA 5KD8 or B
One reads, DOAF-B date may be 9JAC.
One reads, D15D, 3 70
One has a different attachment on the end for the cable, has no markings other a number 4 on that case.
All have the nose piece, D2AF
Not sure if this helps
I dont think any are correct for a 1969 Shelby
Appreciate your help.
I also have one starter is excellent condition with zero wear and the C3OF end does not even show ever being attached, no bolt markings and no markings at all on the housing. Any idea what this could be used for? I purchased a lot of 65-66 NOS parts and this was part of the lot.
Quote from: aboss4tg on March 19, 2023, 02:13:54 PM
I am not able to add photos for some reason.
Of the four starters I have one reads, American Motors 3212235-USA 5KD8 or B
One reads, DOAF-B date may be 9JAC.
One reads, D15D, 3 70
One has a different attachment on the end for the cable, has no markings other a number 4 on that case.
All have the nose piece, D2AF
Not sure if this helps
You can't count on any engineering numbers to correct on a engine unless a super low mileage and unmessed with engine related components. Unfortunately for the engine you are working on is that the starter will have the numbers metal stamped into the barrel section of the starter assembly. The engineering number on the starter will have a C9 prefix to even be in the running. It is very common for parts used to rebuild starters are taken from a pile of unrelated disassembled starters.It is easy to make wrong numbers go away with body work but very hard to put correct ones into to a barrel section that has been cleared of offending numbers and letters.
Wouldnt the easy answer be the number that should be on the starter?
Quote from: aboss4tg on March 19, 2023, 02:13:54 PM
I am not able to add photos for some reason.
Of the four starters I have one reads, American Motors 3212235-USA 5KD8 or B
One reads, DOAF-B date may be 9JAC.
One reads, D15D, 3 70
One has a different attachment on the end for the cable, has no markings other a number 4 on that case.
All have the nose piece, D2AF
Not sure if this helps
The nose cones are all wrong and have different details compared to period original based on your description. A D0AF means 1970 .D stands for the decade and the number after stands for year of the decade. The 1970 and up nose cones have strengthening gussets added that the 60's version do not have along with other details that can be identified as historically wrong once installed. The stop bolt on the mid section of the barrel will have a square shape not a Phillips. These are just a few historical details on the starter . There are more. You will need to make some choices. Of course what is it worth to yu for a correct looking one is just one of the choices to consider . There are a number of others.
Quote from: shlb69 on March 19, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Wouldnt the easy answer be the number that should be on the starter?
You must not have read reply # 5 which explains why it is not a easy answer. ;)
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 19, 2023, 02:35:00 PM
I dont think any are correct for a 1969 Shelby
+1 . Non were original on a 69 GT350.
Quote from: aboss4tg on March 19, 2023, 02:13:54 PM
I am not able to add photos for some reason.
Of the four starters I have one reads, American Motors 3212235-USA 5KD8 or B
One reads, DOAF-B date may be 9JAC.
One reads, D15D, 3 70
One has a different attachment on the end for the cable, has no markings other a number 4 on that case.
All have the nose piece, D2AF
Not sure if this helps
The first picture looks like a later model based on the odd shape. It most closley resembles one for a 4 speed but as I said it is hard to tell because it looks clompletly foriegn compared to the 60's starters I am used to working with. The last set of pictures is of another rebuilt starter that someone with a little bit of historical knowledge has applied and tried to make look assemblyline . Close but no cigar. Many starters will work because the one you need is one of the most common styles . Appearance differed between years.
I would expect to see an AUTOLITE starter die stamped with C7AF-11001-B followed by a date code that corresponds/would pre-date the build date of your car. As Bob stated, it is probably one of the most common starters of the era because it fit several engine across several years.
Not the greatest picture on short notice, but you get the idea. You can start to see the "9Fxx" date code after the part number, which would be June 1969.
Quote from: 430dragpack on March 19, 2023, 10:01:50 PM
I would expect to see an AUTOLITE starter die stamped with C7AF-11001-B followed by a date code that corresponds/would pre-date the build date of your car. As Bob stated, it is probably one of the most common starters of there era because it fit several engine across several years.
That one would be for 67 and 68.
Bob, the only three C9 casting numbered starters are the BOSS 429 C9AF-A, 390cid C9AF-B, and the 250cid six cylinder C9ZF-A. The 250 starter would work but is not technically listed for a 351cid, like the C7AF-B. The other two, as you know, won't work at all. Even the '69 BOSS 302 used a C7AF-F, which was carried over into the 1970 model year when replaced by the D0AF-C around January 1970.
Quote from: 430dragpack on March 19, 2023, 10:20:16 PM
Bob, the only three C9 casting numbered starters are the BOSS 429 C9AF-A, 390cid C9AF-B, and the 250cid six cylinder C9ZF-A. The 250 starter would work but is not technically listed for a 351cid, like the C7AF-B. The other two, as you know, won't work at all. Even the '69 BOSS 302 used a C7AF-F, which was carried over into the 1970 model year when replaced by the D0AF-C.
Interesting . I know that the C9ZF-A will work on a 351 automatic and so will the C7AF-B . Thanks. Will still keep an eye and mind open and look for examples though they may never appear.
This starter is the original off of a '69 Grande, 351w, automatic, built in February at the San Jose plant, and is dated January 17th, 1969. The C3OF-A nose cone was the only small block, automatic cone to be made until the D0OF-A came in 1970 and then the D2AF cones later.
Quote from: 430dragpack on March 20, 2023, 09:04:35 AM
This starter is the original off of a '69 Grande, 351w, automatic, built in February at the San Jose plant, and is dated January 17th, 1969. The C3OF-A nose cone was the only small block, automatic cone to be made until the D0OF-A came in 1970 and then the D2AF cones later.
Looks like someone has been doing some homework :) Thanks for sharing and hope/expect it will help others
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 19, 2023, 10:03:23 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on March 19, 2023, 10:01:50 PM
I would expect to see an AUTOLITE starter die stamped with C7AF-11001-B followed by a date code that corresponds/would pre-date the build date of your car. As Bob stated, it is probably one of the most common starters of there era because it fit several engine across several years.
That one would be for 67 and 68.
Bob,
would this same number be what I need for my Nov 1st 66 build 350 ?
Thanks
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on March 21, 2023, 10:38:47 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 19, 2023, 10:03:23 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on March 19, 2023, 10:01:50 PM
I would expect to see an AUTOLITE starter die stamped with C7AF-11001-B followed by a date code that corresponds/would pre-date the build date of your car. As Bob stated, it is probably one of the most common starters of there era because it fit several engine across several years.
That one would be for 67 and 68.
Bob,
would this same number be what I need for my Nov 1st 66 build 350 ?
Thanks
John
No. The outside will appear the same but identification be different and will not be metal stamped . 65 until later 67 had a ink stamped identification. In your case the starter would typically be still ink stamped . The NOV 1st build date is early enough that it may still use the previous year ID number or the C7-B number.
I went thru this last year on my 69 GT350 4 speed.....nose cones are different for an auto vs 4 speed right?
I had to switch mine from the rebuilt orig starter I got from All Classic Motors
Quote from: SCJSTU on March 21, 2023, 01:59:13 PM
I went thru this last year on my 69 GT350 4 speed.....nose cones are different for an auto vs 4 speed right?
I had to switch mine from the rebuilt orig starter I got from All Classic Motors
Right. FYI 4 speed vs. auto nose cone difference starting in 1968 production.
BoB,
As always thanks for your knowledge on the starter for the nov 1st 67.
Question about the ink stamp, who might produce the best repop ink stamp or decal, I prefer ink stamp.
I imagine the date code would prohibit a decal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The C 3 nose cone pictured is a 63 up to 68, if I read correctly.
I have many starters and alternators , coopers and my own, decades worth of the old ones, most autolite.
I am getting ready to offer a bunch of parts, and don't want to get rid of anything that is correct for the Shelby.
I have a noise cone with the number C6OF _ A with a large 2 besides it.
Correct or put in the pile to sell.
Thanks,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on March 23, 2023, 09:31:46 AM
BoB,
As always thanks for your knowledge on the starter for the nov 1st 67.
Question about the ink stamp, who might produce the best repop ink stamp or decal, I prefer ink stamp.
I imagine the date code would prohibit a decal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The C 3 nose cone pictured is a 63 up to 68, if I read correctly.
I have many starters and alternators , coopers and my own, decades worth of the old ones, most autolite.
I am getting ready to offer a bunch of parts, and don't want to get rid of anything that is correct for the Shelby.
I have a noise cone with the number C6OF _ A with a large 2 besides it.
Correct or put in the pile to sell.
Thanks,
John
The C3OF-A nose cone was used until the D0OF-A nose cone replaced it sometime in the 1970 model year. The C3 cone is used with small block automatic transmissions and a small block, manual transmission flywheel that is small diameter, like used in Mustangs prior to 1968. Some '65-'66 small block Galaxies used the large diameter manual transmission flywheel and they used the C5TF-A nose cone, which was used on large diameter manual transmissions flywheels in later Mustangs.
The C6OF-A nose cone is for '66-'67, 170cid and 200cid engines with manual trans. only.
Chris
Quote from: Harris Speedster on March 23, 2023, 09:31:46 AM
...............................Question about the ink stamp, who might produce the best repop ink stamp or decal, I prefer ink stamp.
I imagine the date code would prohibit a decal?
The ink stamps on the starters were installed on the assembly line into 68 production. The "reproduction" decal for this isn't even close and likely copied from a service piece. Yes the originals were date coded. Will send a PM :)
This came on a complete 69 351W the nose cone is a C5TF-A
Quote from: Blackcar on March 23, 2023, 08:43:17 PM
This came on a complete 69 351W the nose cone is a C5TF-A
Yep, that's the correct nose cone for that C7AF-F, small block, large flywheel, manual transmission starter. Almost a correct date code for a '69 BOSS 302.
Good piece.
Chris
Quote from: Blackcar on March 23, 2023, 08:43:17 PM
This came on a complete 69 351W the nose cone is a C5TF-A
It has been my experienced that the 4 speed nose cone is very hard to find.
Bob, how is the BM of the date interpreted ?
Quote from: Blackcar on March 23, 2023, 09:52:48 PM
Bob, how is the BM of the date interpreted ?
The B in the date sequence typically stands for shift. I have 4 other C7-B starters stamped on the shelf of various 68 date codes and all of the ones that I currently have are B shift. I don't currently have a C7-F stamped barrel to compare to. I don't remember for sure what the M stood for however with all of the mix up problems Ford had with the specific 4 speed Mustang starters starting in 68 (164 tooth) I wouldn't be surprised if it stood for "manual" . The 4 speed vs. auto starter confusion problem still continues to this day . I don't know how many times I have had to coach auto parts store personal and enthusiast alike.