Of course we noticed this now on the day we are planning to install the Hooker Headers for the GT500 with Stock FE Heads...
According to the Hooker Header disclaimer...
The headers "Will only fit 16 bolt F.E. cylinder heads with the top four exhaust bolt holes in line. Header will not seal properly on
heads with the end upper bolts lower than the center bolts."
How are you all remedying this? For those of you who installed Hooker Headers...did you not use your stock FE heads?
Ryan
714-855-8505
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 03:00:53 PM
Of course we noticed this now on the day we are planning to install the Hooker Headers for the GT500 with Stock FE Heads...
According to the Hooker Header disclaimer...
The headers "Will only fit 16 bolt F.E. cylinder heads with the top four exhaust bolt holes in line. Header will not seal properly on
heads with the end upper bolts lower than the center bolts."
How are you all remedying this? For those of you who installed Hooker Headers...did you not use your stock FE heads?
Ryan
714-855-8505
Ryan,C7AE-A are the typical stock original) on the 67 GT500. I will post a picture comparison that should help clarify the hooker advisement.
Bob,
I just double checked and I do have the stock original heads, C7AE-A. Yet, they are NOT in line. Would could be the reason!? Hopefully it means my car is extra special and more valuable, :)
Ryan
Bob,
These are also 14 bolt FE heads. According to Hooker, the "in-line" top four bolts are typical for 16-bolt FE heads. Any clarity would be great.
Ryan
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 03:20:50 PM
Bob,
I just double checked and I do have the stock original heads, C7AE-A. Yet, they are NOT in line. Would could be the reason!? Hopefully it means my car is extra special and more valuable, :)
Ryan
Maybe my interpretation of which bolts are the top and your written instructions are two different things. Besides the typical trouble with the fitting procedure associated with hooker headers there is not a sealing problem with the stock heads that I have experienced or heard of other then the typical exhaust leaks that crop up with most header installed in Mustang body cars from time to time .Loosened header bolts are the typical cause of those. I always have the exhaust ports surfaced prior to installation to confirm everything is flat.
The 16 bolt CJ/KR heads have the upper holes inline.
The 14 bolt 390GT/GT 500 heads have the end cylinder holes lower than the center cylinders for the uppers.
I would post pictures but I am too lazy for the 12 step plan.
Here is a comparison of different style of heads out of the old stand by reference How to Rebuild Your BigBlock Ford Engine by Steve Christ. I understand now which top bolts Hooker is referring to. I will amend my post. (http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/66-050718154639.jpeg)
Here is a picture that should show the alignment of the top set of exhaust manifold bolt holes C7AE NOS head
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-050718155259.jpeg)
Quote from: 67_1183 on July 05, 2018, 03:45:29 PM
I would post pictures but I am too lazy for the 12 step plan.
Only 20 steps for me ;)
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 05, 2018, 03:54:16 PM
Here is a picture that should show the alignment of the top set of exhaust manifold bolt holes C7AE NOS head
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-050718155259.jpeg)
Quote from: 67_1183 on July 05, 2018, 03:45:29 PM
I would post pictures but I am too lazy for the 12 step plan.
Only 20 steps for me ;)
Yep, thank you. That's what I got...outer bolts are lower than the centers. Guess I won't be able to use the Hookers afterall...
:(
Why not elongate the end holes to match the head? I believe Hooker's concern is that without the upper bolt installed , the flange might warp and the gasket could fail. Back in the day I ran those headers with only the diagonal bolts and never had an issue. After fighting for hours ( it seemed) I wasn't going to put any more of them in. Turn the round hole into an oval and begin the agony of installing them.
Randy
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 03:59:43 PM
Yep, thank you. That's what I got...outer bolts are lower than the centers. Guess I won't be able to use the Hookers afterall...
:(
Since you are installing headers, concours correct doesn't seem to be an issue.
The 14 bolts heads can be drilled for the new pattern or better yet switch to CJ heads for the larger valves and better flow. Buy aftermarket CJ aluminum heads for performance and lower weight and keep the 14 bolt heads for the next caretaker.
Thanks for posting the pictures Bob and Jeff.
At this point I really think I should just use the stock exhaust manifolds as my car is fully matching numbers. I only considered headers because we were given the wonderful surprise of blown head gaskets. My thought was "now's the time to try them." I'm generally particular about keeping everything original. Don't know why I tried to deviate this time. Maybe we will just scrap the header project.
Ryan
The skin on your knuckles will be forever grateful!!!!
The Hookers have 4 hole flanges on each cylinder flange. They will fit all 390 427 428 configurations that's what makes them nice. No they are not original and take some extra effort to install but your stockers wont be a cake walk either. Good luck on what ever direction you choose. ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on July 05, 2018, 07:08:37 PM
The Hookers have 4 hole flanges on each cylinder flange. They will fit all 390 427 428 configurations that's what makes them nice. No they are not original and take some extra effort to install but your stockers wont be a cake walk either. Good luck on what ever direction you choose. ;)
I guess our biggest concern is that...although yes they have 4 hole flanges, they aren't designed to accommodate offset configurations like the stock 428 heads. Under this setup, two of the upper holes can't be used without additional fabrication. My biggest question is really whether people have continued to install them without modification and only use 2 of the 4 upper holes in offset configurations.
Our assumption is this would compromise proper fitment as two of the flanges wouldn't be fully secured at the top. But, if people have continued in this fashion and not had issues, we are happy to try it.
Hooker does not make a setup from the factory designed for the offset bolt holes unfortunately.
Holly gitski's Batman! My meds must be wearing off. Only you guys can find issues like this. Meds. MEDS! GIMME MY MEDS! ::)
I have them on my 67 with a 427. Both holes per port are verticle and work great. I have them on my 68 cj with 16 possible bolt holes to use they also work great. As long as you can get some holes across from each other like the gt 390 heads you will be golden. Hope this helps-
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 07:45:39 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on July 05, 2018, 07:08:37 PM
The Hookers have 4 hole flanges on each cylinder flange. They will fit all 390 427 428 configurations that's what makes them nice. No they are not original and take some extra effort to install but your stockers wont be a cake walk either. Good luck on what ever direction you choose. ;)
I guess our biggest concern is that...although yes they have 4 hole flanges, they aren't designed to accommodate offset configurations like the stock 428 heads. Under this setup, two of the upper holes can't be used without additional fabrication. My biggest question is really whether people have continued to install them without modification and only use 2 of the 4 upper holes in offset configurations.
Our assumption is this would compromise proper fitment as two of the flanges wouldn't be fully secured at the top. But, if people have continued in this fashion and not had issues, we are happy to try it.
Hooker does not make a setup from the factory designed for the offset bolt holes unfortunately.
Remember Randy's suggestion of elongation the hole of the header flange on the ports with the offset bolt hole. That way they will fit the pattern and you will have the extra clamping force for a good seal. Also not mentioned but just to make sure you are aware that you will have to run a special powersteering bracket to relocate the powersteering ram down lower to clear the headers. Also plan on test fitting and removing to modify with some well placed ball peen hammer hits for clearance before final install . If you don't have to more power to you . The headers can be very close to the shock towers even to the point of contact. Best to do the pre fit first before painting. If you decide to run the stock manifolds it is even more important to have the ports surfaced so that they are all flat in the same plane. From the factory there is no exhaust gasket used so a flat surface insures a good seal . I always smear a thin coating of orange high temp silicone before bolting on the cast iron manifolds . I don't put much on and if any little bit squeezes out I can take a razor blade and pick it off. Don't forget a good high temp cast iron paint for the stock manifolds .You don't want to skimp like with a inferior VHT rattle can product because you only want to do this once. Best of luck what ever you decide.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 05, 2018, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 07:45:39 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on July 05, 2018, 07:08:37 PM
The Hookers have 4 hole flanges on each cylinder flange. They will fit all 390 427 428 configurations that's what makes them nice. No they are not original and take some extra effort to install but your stockers wont be a cake walk either. Good luck on what ever direction you choose. ;)
I guess our biggest concern is that...although yes they have 4 hole flanges, they aren't designed to accommodate offset configurations like the stock 428 heads. Under this setup, two of the upper holes can't be used without additional fabrication. My biggest question is really whether people have continued to install them without modification and only use 2 of the 4 upper holes in offset configurations.
Our assumption is this would compromise proper fitment as two of the flanges wouldn't be fully secured at the top. But, if people have continued in this fashion and not had issues, we are happy to try it.
Hooker does not make a setup from the factory designed for the offset bolt holes unfortunately.
Remember Randy's suggestion of elongation the hole of the header flange on the ports with the offset bolt hole. That way they will fit the pattern and you will have the extra clamping force for a good seal. Also not mentioned but just to make sure you are aware that you will have to run a special powersteering bracket to relocate the powersteering ram down lower to clear the headers. Also plan on test fitting and removing to modify with some well placed ball peen hammer hits for clearance before final install . If you don't have to more power to you . The headers can be very close to the shock towers even to the point of contact. Best to do the pre fit first before painting. If you decide to run the stock manifolds it is even more important to have the ports surfaced so that they are all flat in the same plane. From the factory there is no exhaust gasket used so a flat surface insures a good seal . I always smear a thin coating of orange high temp silicone before bolting on the cast iron manifolds . I don't put much on and if any little bit squeezes out I can take a razor blade and pick it off. Don't forget a good high temp cast iron paint for the stock manifolds .You don't want to skimp like with a inferior VHT rattle can product because you only want to do this once. Best of luck what ever you decide.
Everything else is ready to go. Had the heads resurfaced earlier this week to ensure proper fitment.
Already made sure to have the drop down bracket as well. Thanks for the suggestions.
We will likely just drill out new holes on the headers to "ovalize" the two offset ports.
All of those items should help put a smile on your face when completed.
The point is, get two bolts on per port IF you can. The nature of the headers is that they will warp enough with heat cycles that it is common to the point that you may not be able to eliminate all of the leaks.
ALWAYS RUN HEADER GASKETS... ALWAYS- FOR IMPERFECTIONS IN SEALING SURFACES.
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 08:23:20 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 05, 2018, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: dabigpud on July 05, 2018, 07:45:39 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on July 05, 2018, 07:08:37 PM
The Hookers have 4 hole flanges on each cylinder flange. They will fit all 390 427 428 configurations that's what makes them nice. No they are not original and take some extra effort to install but your stockers wont be a cake walk either. Good luck on what ever direction you choose. ;)
I guess our biggest concern is that...although yes they have 4 hole flanges, they aren't designed to accommodate offset configurations like the stock 428 heads. Under this setup, two of the upper holes can't be used without additional fabrication. My biggest question is really whether people have continued to install them without modification and only use 2 of the 4 upper holes in offset configurations.
Our assumption is this would compromise proper fitment as two of the flanges wouldn't be fully secured at the top. But, if people have continued in this fashion and not had issues, we are happy to try it.
Hooker does not make a setup from the factory designed for the offset bolt holes unfortunately.
Remember Randy's suggestion of elongation the hole of the header flange on the ports with the offset bolt hole. That way they will fit the pattern and you will have the extra clamping force for a good seal. Also not mentioned but just to make sure you are aware that you will have to run a special powersteering bracket to relocate the powersteering ram down lower to clear the headers. Also plan on test fitting and removing to modify with some well placed ball peen hammer hits for clearance before final install . If you don't have to more power to you . The headers can be very close to the shock towers even to the point of contact. Best to do the pre fit first before painting. If you decide to run the stock manifolds it is even more important to have the ports surfaced so that they are all flat in the same plane. From the factory there is no exhaust gasket used so a flat surface insures a good seal . I always smear a thin coating of orange high temp silicone before bolting on the cast iron manifolds . I don't put much on and if any little bit squeezes out I can take a razor blade and pick it off. Don't forget a good high temp cast iron paint for the stock manifolds .You don't want to skimp like with a inferior VHT rattle can product because you only want to do this once. Best of luck what ever you decide.
Everything else is ready to go. Had the heads resurfaced earlier this week to ensure proper fitment.
Already made sure to have the drop down bracket as well. Thanks for the suggestions.
We will likely just drill out new holes on the headers to "ovalize" the two offset ports.
Drilling ANYTHING into the header flanges WILL compromise the sealing capability of the header flanges. You WILL be creating problems that did not exist before.
Just get two bolts per cylinder in. It doesn't matter which two.
Other then that, do what you want to BUT if you didn't want the advice, why do you ask for it?