As concours Chairman and through my parts and restoration business I get a lot of questions from people that have shown their cars at SAAC or MCA venues and wanted to know why they got deductions for nos brake hoses. The gold hose on the left albeit a drum brake hose is a service hose - please note the double crimp. The hose on the right is an original off a 65 disc car - note the single crimp and the extended body of the crimped part which makes it much easier to remove or install that version on a caliper vs the short hose which is designed for drum brake cars only. Single Crimp YES Double Crimp NO even if part is NOS Ford
To add , the DOT required brake lines to be double crimped for safety starting in 1970. That is why you don't see any single crimped reproductions being made. There is a liability issue. All of the later Ford service parts are double crimped as well. That is how to tell if a service brake part is made before or after 1970. To add ,I believe the assemblyline hose also would have had the zinc gold (dichromate) added originally. For those reading a part has to be plated zinc silver first before the zinc dichromate (gold) is added. The zinc dicromate gold will only stick well to a zinc base like the zinc silver. The gold portion adds a extra layer of corrosion resistance which is why it is added. When the gold wears off it will leave only the silver base visible.
This is also a great time to remind owners/builders that NOS does not always mean - like original assembly line parts - since often they are not one in the same as this one example shows. Spending the extra money to purchase NOS parts is not always the easy button to success and anyone considering these parts should ask for pictures, details and compare what was offered to real assembly line parts installed on the cars originally.
Quote from: J_Speegle on September 29, 2018, 04:38:31 PM
This is also a great time to remind owners/builders that NOS does not always mean - like original assembly line parts - since often they are not one in the same as this one example shows. Spending the extra money to purchase NOS parts is not always the easy button to success and anyone considering these parts should ask for pictures, details and compare what is offered to real assembly line parts installed on the cars originally.
Jeff, If you buy Nos Ford Parts that were produced in the same era as the car you are using them on you get assembly line date code correct parts. If you buy Ford service parts made 30 years after the car was made you may not get assembly line parts. There were thousands of Nos Ford parts made identical to the assembly line parts that Ford parts and service sold for decades after the cars were built. If the parts are in FoMoCo or Autolite box's the parts will most often be concours correct. If the box is current look closely! I've restored 50+ Mustang & Shelby's with nos date code correct brake hoses over the past 30 years. Correct parts are available , just not in reproduction catalogs. Don't be fooled that all nos parts are not concours date code correct!
Quote from: polyglas on September 30, 2018, 10:20:22 AM
...................Correct parts are available , just not in reproduction catalogs. Don't be fooled that all nos parts are not concours date code correct!
Think we're saying the same thing only in a different way :)
As mentioned "NOS parts is not always the easy button to success and anyone considering these parts should ask for pictures, details and compare what was offered to real assembly line parts installed on the cars originally. "
Also depends on what class you're showing in. Your second word is "concours". I do know in MCA concours driven, either is accepted. NOS, assemblyline or reproduction.
As long as fit and funtionality are like original.
Hi Guys,
6s281 has not been driven since about 1989, hope to change that in the next 24 months. Both the front and the rear brake hoses are the original single crimp, but I would obviously not trust driving with them at this point. I have located and purchased NOS service replacement double crimp front hoses. I will run the service replacement hoses but would really love to have the original style Single crimp. Is anyone restoring the original hoses? My ultimate goal is to restore the car initially to a high level of concourse 2, will the hoses even matter?
Thanks very much as always, Karl
6s281
Comes down to liability issues for many shops and the cost of ramping up to make them. If someone chooses to expand and do the early cars I would grab them if done well since they may not make them for very long. Happens with the smaller, or short run businesses that often get started out as a personal need for a owner that later blossoms to a small business.
Quote from: Karguy on September 30, 2018, 10:41:59 PM
Hi Guys,
6s281 has not been driven since about 1989, hope to change that in the next 24 months. Both the front and the rear brake hoses are the original single crimp, but I would obviously not trust driving with them at this point. I have located and purchased NOS service replacement double crimp front hoses. I will run the service replacement hoses but would really love to have the original style Single crimp. Is anyone restoring the original hoses? My ultimate goal is to restore the car initially to a high level of concourse 2, will the hoses even matter?
Thanks very much as always, Karl
6s281
It depends on what you mean by restoring the hoses. You can cosmetically restore the finish of the metal ends . Of course the end result depends on how bad they are corroded to start with. People are doing that . No one I am aware of is un crimping and replacing the rubber . If the rubber isn't cracked and you can reasonably expect that they will be fine for pleasure driving IMO.I always check to make sure they have not collasped inside the hose before use . I have a NOS single crimp rear hose. PM if interested.
I appreciate the thought on running my original hoses, honestly never thought about it, definitely worth a good look.
Will the service replacement hoses be a problem in concourse level two?
Quote from: Karguy on September 30, 2018, 11:46:30 PM
I appreciate the thought on running my original hoses, honestly never thought about it, definitely worth a good look.
Will the service replacement hoses be a problem in concourse level two?
It depends on what service part you use. There are different time periods service replacement parts are made they evolved over time for various reasons. Some are identical to assemblyline as has been mentioned and others that are not so much . It is hard to make a blanket statement that covers everything. It is supposed to look like assemblyline is the yardstick . Whatever makes a service part not look like assemblyline leaves it open for possible deductions depending on how far off it is.
Quote from: Karguy on September 30, 2018, 11:46:30 PM
I appreciate the thought on running my original hoses, honestly never thought about it, definitely worth a good look.
Will the service replacement hoses be a problem in concourse level two?
Amount of point deductions would typically be based on how far/different from originals they are. Service hoses can be different depending on when they were made. Markings on the hoses, texture or pattern of the hoses, number of crimps each can be different from assembly line its normally a weighted value based on what is seen by the judges so its often only a percentage of the total not all the points.
But as always the choice is yours. Sort of works that way with each piece that makes up the car. Remember you don't have to have a perfect car to win an award.
Looks like Bob and I were both writting about the same time :)
Thank you gentlemen.
Service double crimp hoses will be a full deduction in Level 1 Premier as per judges discretion. there will be no deductions in SAAC Concours level 2 as long as the hoses replicate the original look
Thanks, that is the answer I was looking for.
I read from one of the judges here, that some level of competition, does not allow for any NOS parts; that is, they have to be original to the car. What level or competition is that?
Quote from: SNAKEBIT on October 02, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
I read from one of the judges here, that some level of competition, does not allow for any NOS parts; that is, they have to be original to the car. What level or competition is that?
I think you are referring to the parts in the survivor class. In that class the car is judged on how untouched it is . A NOS part if used may be points deducted because it is ether not the same as assemblyline (parts evolved over time in the service system) or it would need to be creatively worked on so that it would match the patina of the surrounding parts so that it would not be mentioned as out of place or points deducted in worse cases. This is most commonly done to mitigate the new look with belts ,hoses ,batteries etc. The point is for the car to look the part of a untouched unrestored car in reasonable condition. How you get there can be a challenge or a nightmare depending on how you look at it. Some cars are fortunate enough be well preserved other good survivor cars can be made to look more exceptional with a little creative work. To me it is a very satisfying challenge. Others may think not so much. It is all good. ;D
Yes, sir, that's correct. I thought it was probably you who mentioned this. I've learned more about what is correct and that makes me happy!