Who is Ed Casey?
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0119-359417/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/
Since this is a car offered for sale, here are a few thoughts;
On the positive side;
-Correct side stripe placement
-Correct flat tail panel for early car
-Correct rear valance with trim for early car
Neutral
-Large lettered Goodyear tires look great (might not be correct, but it is very close to the cutoff point around the 255th car built).
On the Negative side;
-Rocker Panel moldings? (That's a big concern for me)
-Wheel lips moldings (less concerning but still not correct)
-Vertical inboard grille (I believe this car should have a slanted inboard grille).
I have never seen a P/S ram drilled for a cotter pin let alone a safety wire wrap (guess that is what that is).I wonder what brought the restorer to that conclusion? It is not like there are few examples to compare to.
What is up with the rear valance ?
Looks all bulged in the left rear corner picture, the alignment is all messed up ?
Maybe it is optical, but maybe error in alignment pre-fitting procedures?
It looks like a pretty nice car, as with any purchases, a buyer might want to do an on site inspection?
With respect,
john
Quote from: Harris Speedster on October 25, 2018, 07:58:01 PM
What is up with the rear valance ?
Could be a poorly made reproduction then forced into place or indication of something deeper. No way of telling from a couple of pictures on a computer screen right now.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 25, 2018, 07:43:45 PM
I have never seen a P/S ram drilled for a cotter pin let alone a safety wire wrap (guess that is what that is).I wonder what brought the restorer to that conclusion? It is not like there are few examples to compare to.
Saw that and I would guess that the castle nut he installed or someone prior did confused him since there was no cotter pin hole for it.
Just a possibility based on what is in the picture
Quote from: Richstang on October 25, 2018, 06:39:13 PM
Who is Ed Casey?
You can read about Ed Casey here: http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Grillo (http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Grillo)
Quote from: silverton_ford on October 26, 2018, 10:04:02 AM
Quote from: Richstang on October 25, 2018, 06:39:13 PM
Who is Ed Casey?
You can read about Ed Casey here: http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Grillo (http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Grillo)
A regional rep in Massachusetts...Thanks for posting.
definitely strange to go to that level of restoration & then put wheel well moldings & rocker panels on a 67
Quote from: 68krrrr on October 27, 2018, 12:38:06 AM
definitely strange to go to that level of restoration & then put wheel well moldings & rocker panels on a 67
And stripes.
I happen to prefer stripes on a white car, but when you are touting a
concours restoration. ::)
Quote from: 68krrrr on October 27, 2018, 12:38:06 AM
definitely strange to go to that level of restoration & then put wheel well moldings & rocker panels on a 67
When ever I see rocker moldings on a '67 the first thing that comes to mind is a re-body. I'm not saying that is the case here, but as always get an expert inspection to prove otherwise. The rocker moldings with the added wheel lips makes me wonder if someone was trying to "upgrade" it to look more like a '68 way back in the day. Lemans stripes are another separate topic that I will leave aside.
Either way, I would never have restored the car with the incorrect added moldings and they would be the first thing to go if I were the buyer.
Having an incorrect cotter pin, or added bling, like wheel well moldings wouldn't slow down my offers. The car is stunning hope it does well for both buyer and seller- ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on October 27, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
Having an incorrect cotter pin, or added bling, like wheel well moldings wouldn't slow down my offers. The car is stunning hope it does well for both buyer and seller- ;)
Apparently you don't understand otherwise you would appreciate that those observations were meant to raise a red flag that the restorer was somewhat clueless in the proper original details to restore the car back to given it is obvious to all that was the intention. At the very worst the restores lack of knowledge may indicate other more serious integrity problems in the cars history. I hope for the buyer the last is not the case. Your condescending comment aside trying to help a buyer be more informed before a potential purchase is meant to be helpful . Encouraging the disregarding of warning signs is not helpful IMHO. ;) Best of luck on your offers. ;D
Quote from: 2112 on October 27, 2018, 01:26:12 AM
Quote from: 68krrrr on October 27, 2018, 12:38:06 AM
definitely strange to go to that level of restoration & then put wheel well moldings & rocker panels on a 67
And stripes.
I happen to prefer stripes on a white car, but when you are touting a concours restoration. ::)
Concours...the most over/improperly-used word in the classic car marketplace
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 27, 2018, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on October 27, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
Having an incorrect cotter pin, or added bling, like wheel well moldings wouldn't slow down my offers. The car is stunning hope it does well for both buyer and seller- ;)
Apparently you don't understand otherwise you would appreciate that those observations were meant to raise a red flag that the restorer was somewhat clueless in the proper original details to restore the car back to given it is obvious to all that was the intention. At the very worst the restores lack of knowledge may indicate other more serious integrity problems in the cars history. I hope for the buyer the last is not the case. Your condescending comment aside trying to help a buyer be more informed before a potential purchase is meant to be helpful . Encouraging the disregarding of warning signs is not helpful IMHO. ;) Best of luck on your offers. ;D
Bob its actually you that doesn't understand the things that you say and do, and how it affects people. There was not a condescending remark anywhere in the statement. What is condescending is when you or others have to bash.put down,condemn others cars, parts, and workmanship. I am grateful for your knowledge and eye for detail but to always cast a dark cloud over so many cars WITH items like a cotter pin or wheel well trim, well that's not what most of us want to here from someone with our knowledge of these cars. You know first hand when someone casts doubt about something its very hard to change peoples opinions. Maybe a little more positivity for the team. ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on October 27, 2018, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 27, 2018, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on October 27, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
Having an incorrect cotter pin, or added bling, like wheel well moldings wouldn't slow down my offers. The car is stunning hope it does well for both buyer and seller- ;)
Apparently you don't understand otherwise you would appreciate that those observations were meant to raise a red flag that the restorer was somewhat clueless in the proper original details to restore the car back to given it is obvious to all that was the intention. At the very worst the restores lack of knowledge may indicate other more serious integrity problems in the cars history. I hope for the buyer the last is not the case. Your condescending comment aside trying to help a buyer be more informed before a potential purchase is meant to be helpful . Encouraging the disregarding of warning signs is not helpful IMHO. ;) Best of luck on your offers. ;D
Bob its actually you that doesn't understand the things that you say and do, and how it affects people. There was not a condescending remark anywhere in the statement. What is condescending is when you or others have to bash.put down,condemn others cars, parts, and workmanship. I am grateful for your knowledge and eye for detail but to always cast a dark cloud over so many cars WITH items like a cotter pin or wheel well trim, well that's not what most of us want to here from someone with our knowledge of these cars. You know first hand when someone casts doubt about something its very hard to change peoples opinions. Maybe a little more positivity for the team. ;)
Lets agree to disagree and move on.
Auction result: Hammered at $300k.
Insane!!! ROCKER PANEL TRIM!?!?!?
They used old photos. The rocker moldings and wheel lip trim were not present at the auction.
Anyone still think the market is soft?
Dave
Quote from: GT350DAVE on January 12, 2019, 04:35:03 PM
Anyone still think the market is soft?
Dave
For quality cars, no, the market is not soft.
For rebodied cars, that is a whole other story. ::)
I see that Bob was making reference to the claims of "concours" correct. That the vehicle isn't. Much of the restoration wasn't done well. For instance: Look at the dash and door brushed aluminum. It looks poor and incorrect. I had all the OE plastic plated and restored and went with the Burton panels because the finish and as you can see from my pictures, it looks like it should.
My vehicle is NOT concours. However, I don't try and portray it as such. After watching the extent some go to, I understand how much work it is to try and replicate everything. 300K for a half-ass job. Fit and Finish just doesn't get it done.
-Keith
I'm in Kissimmee and looked the car over, took several pictures and talked to the owners. The car was not portrayed properly, regarding being almost concours (told to me by the owner).
I was also on the block next to the sellers when it crossed. They were literally jumping up and down.
So far, Shelbys of all years are strong at Kissimmee.
That just goes to show, >>> that it is never over until the fat lady sings.
Been several years ago now, but I was taken back by the world record price set on a Bugatti.
The reason I was taken back >> the paint color used was the wrong color entirely, as the restorer told me he had found traces of the original color, and the mix of paint being a Urethane with metallic was wrong also.
They never had a Duco Lacquer scientifically formulated paint. >> meaning fish scales, metal shavings, ground glass and a host of other items were used in European paint.
To my best knowledge, and based upon DuPont s research to help me out with the question>> who was first?
Relevance being Ben's Speedster was painted with DuPont's new Duco lacquer Chrome metallica paint, furthered by the paint code of Bens Speedster being the actual patent code of Metallic paint, crazy but true.
So, its OK to have a car that sets a world record breaking price in the tens of millions, that's OK somehow?
Just like its ok to not leave lead marks, dirt particles, clear coat and more in the paint work on Shelby's
BTW, what are the Concours rules regarding paint on Shelby's now ?????????
The guy had some uncommon error's in his restoration, and I can see why some red flags were thrown.
In my opinion, you called it correctly Bob.
With respect,
John
Quote from: corbins on October 27, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: 2112 on October 27, 2018, 01:26:12 AM
Quote from: 68krrrr on October 27, 2018, 12:38:06 AM
definitely strange to go to that level of restoration & then put wheel well moldings & rocker panels on a 67
And stripes.
I happen to prefer stripes on a white car, but when you are touting a concours restoration. ::)
Concours...the most over/improperly-used word in the classic car marketplace
I would submit that Survivor is up there with it.
We have had this discussion every time the auctions come to town. Many original paint jobs look like they were painted in a cold dirty warehouse with a broom. To err on the side of originality that would be proper, what appears to be happening now is overly restored cars that are bringing all the money, cant blame them really as shiny as a new nickel excited people 100 years ago and holds true today. Congratulation to all those buyers and sellers this year. :)
It looks like the bright rocker trim was still on the car at Mecum.
Edit; The white frame on the ground mirror is what looked like the rocker molding, glad I'm wrong on that.
Here's a photo thanks to Jeff Burgy.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150119112607.jpeg)
I'm having a hard time seeing the rocker moldings in that photo (but do see a few other issues) - but I think the point is that car #3206 sold for similar money in May of 2018 at Mecum Indy auction and it was a much better restoration (Div 1 Premier car) and that both cars were offered as accurate restorations of "Stock" cars although I don't think this car would fare as well in SAAC judging, IF the owner cares. Which would seem to indicate that the market is strong for cars that appear to most to be accurately restored or two people wanted the same car at the same auction.
Wheel well moldings can be added to hide bondo in the rear quarters.
Why don't we chalk it up to values are rising across the board? 8)
Just checked my videotape of the auction. No Rocker Panel Trim on the car when it crossed the block..
Agreed prices are on the move again in a positive direction for all Shelby American cars... The FUNOMETER is still pegged on high for these cars.
Quote from: Wedgeman on January 15, 2019, 12:45:57 PM
Just checked my videotape of the auction. No Rocker Panel Trim on the car when it crossed the block..
Thanks for this note! My previous post has been adjusted/corrected.
Bob Gaines: Weren't all 1967 Shelby Mustangs painted black in the upper and lower scoops? It's missing on this vehicle as well.
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 26, 2019, 11:40:50 PM
Bob Gaines: Weren't all 1967 Shelby Mustangs painted black in the upper and lower scoops? It's missing on this vehicle as well.
-Keith
Doubt the Black cars got the semi-gloss black in the side scoops, the dark blue cars may have.
The rocker pinch welds were also painted semi-gloss black on all cars with exception to (some?) of the Dark Blue cars and all of the Black cars.
JD: That would be my presumption too. It wouldn't make sense to paint a black vehicle.... Well, black! However, this one is WHITE, and looks out of place without the black-out paint.
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 27, 2019, 02:27:44 AM
JD: That would be my presumption too. It wouldn't make sense to paint a black vehicle.... Well, black! However, this one is WHITE, and looks out of place without the black-out paint.
-Keith
Yes, I saw that as well as a number of other things, that from a judging stand point would be deducted. Either the bidders didn't know or don't care.
My reply was confirming your post that the majority of cars did get the scoops insides blacked-out - but black and maybe some dark blue did not - that car being white, yes it should have the insides of the scoops semi-gloss black if the owner/restorer wanted it to be concours correct.
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 26, 2019, 11:40:50 PM
Bob Gaines: Weren't all 1967 Shelby Mustangs painted black in the upper and lower scoops? It's missing on this vehicle as well.
-Keith
Just saw this. +1 on JD's #32 post.
I blacked out my medium blue car. It just looks better. However, the scoops were already mounted and sealed to the vehicle when I realized my mistake. It was done mounted. I did it with my airbrush being it was difficult to get some angles.
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 27, 2019, 05:51:59 PM
I blacked out my medium blue car. It just looks better. However, the scoops were already mounted and sealed to the vehicle when I realized my mistake. It was done mounted. I did it with my airbrush being it was difficult to get some angles.
-Keith
Maybe I am misinterpreting your response but it reads like maybe you thought you were doing something out of the ordinary. A medium blue car scoops should be blacked out.
Bob, I didn't realize my mistake until you pointed it out. I made myself a lot more work by doing it after mounting and sealing them.
-Keith
I have some rough pictures I took of the car as it was preparing to cross the block:
More pics:
Last set:
BTW - apologies, as I'm not sure why most of the pictures came through rotated 90 degrees. :o
Should 254 have black underside hood and trunk?
Also Chrome finish head light rings?
underside of trunk should be body color, would think this car should have metal frame under fiberglass hood and be all body color. (As stated earlier many things on this car that are not concours correct)
Quote from: JD on January 28, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
underside of trunk should be body color, would think this car should have metal frame under fiberglass hood and be all body color. ..............
+1 :) Agreed that a car built during this period would have metal framed hood and trunk which then means body color.