Hello. I was wondering about what were the correct wheel and tire options for the Shelbys for '67? I saw a vid on YouTube of some guy taking the viewer through at red and white '67 Shelby that he said has the correct 10-spoke wheels on it. I am somewhat sure that only the '68s had the 10-spokes.
'67' Shelby's had 3 wheel types available, all 15 inch - 1 inch more than any Mustang:
1. steel wheels with '67 Thunderbird wheel covers and a Shelby stamped aluminum center emblem (standard)
2. Mag Stars (option 1)
3. cast aluminum 10-spokes (option 2)
also, some '66 Shelby's had 14 inch cast aluminum 10-spokes
the only '68's to get the 15 inch 10-spokes were some of the Export cars, no '68's got 15 inch 10-spokes from the factory for domestic delivery - they all got 15 inch steel wheels with '68 style wheel covers - most got replaced by owners with a later version of the 15 inch 10-spokes made to fit the brakes on the front of the '68's.
What? Whoa, we need to educate someone...1968s did not get 10 spokes
99.6 % got wheel covers
Pete see reply 1, cliff notes, many details to be filled-in.
(I'm sure you can add more specifics especially on the '68's aspects)
For future reference: If you try 67 10 spokes on a 68, they might or do rub the calipers.
Here's a photo of ten spokes on a GT350 back in the day, I took this photo at Sud Automobile in Montreal, in June or July '67. Coralsnake had posted this plus some others for me on the old forum before I figured it out, (thanks again !)
Mike
Ok on 67s, but redesigned brake calipers dont work with 10 spokes.
Quote from: Coralsnake on October 28, 2018, 12:02:33 AM
Ok on 67s, but redesigned brake calipers dont work with 10 spokes.
Well, that's mostly true. The real culprit with the 68-69 brake calipers is the casting flash on the caliper and the thickness of the brand new production brake pads.
Since fitting the early '67 type (to a '68) without the cast in spacer required polishing down the outside of the caliper itself for clearance, that was a no-go as far as Ford was concerned.
The clearances are so tight that it likely would have varied from car to car and no one wanted to get involved in that.
IN ADDITION, when you go to the '68 type with the cast in spacer, it makes the tire to fender clearances even more of a problem, particularly on the GT500's which sit just a tick lower in the front then the 350's do.
When I had the copies of the original invoices, there were 5 cars invoiced with them. Two went to Japan and three to Spain. No domestic cars.
No one ever explained exactly what the combination of what was done to those cars was OR who did it. Likely it was given to an outside vendor because for sure it wouldn't have been done at Metuchen. I doubt they ever even knew what that wheel looked like.
IF they were done by Smith, then that would mean someone had to dismount the production Goodyears and remount them on the 10 spokes.
Having personally done this with both types of wheels on a 68 GT350, I'd speculate that it was Smith that sent someone out in the holding yard with a disc grinder and had them fit the calipers to the wheels. That's the simplest thing to do to avoid having to roll the front fenders and possibly bend up the wheel well trim as well.
I'd say that after doing those 5 cars Smith just would have said, "screw this, not available". Of course that was with 1,900 invoices missing so unless Marti did a curteousy print out of all '68 Shelbys just for SAAC, then it is possible there were more then 5 cars invoiced with them?
Ask Vincent. He was trying to make a deal with Kevin for a complete '68 print out. He was looking for W cars too.
Marti eventually conceded no W's for "68 Mustangs. That has Vinman's fingerprints all over it.
Part of the solution on the wheels fitting the single piston 68 caliper was to machine the rough casting of the inside rim of the wheel . That gave the needed clearance for the wheels to fit without having to add rim offset or a spacer which would cause possible clearance issues with the fender as Doug mentioned.That rough cast inside rim is also a quick way to tell if a genuine assemblyline tenspoke vs a later version. The inside rim will be rough cast on the assemblyline wheel besides all of the other outside face differences.If the backside is machined it is not a assemblyline wheel no matter how close in detail the outside looks.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 28, 2018, 12:29:16 PM
Part of the solution on the wheels fitting the single piston 68 caliper was to machine the rough casting of the inside rim of the wheel . That gave the needed clearance for the wheels to fit without having to add rim offset or a spacer which would cause possible clearance issues with the fender as Doug mentioned.That rough cast inside rim is also a quick way to tell if a genuine assemblyline tenspoke vs a later version. The inside rim will be rough cast on the assemblyline wheel besides all of the other outside face differences.If the backside is machined it is not a assemblyline wheel no matter how close in detail the outside looks.
Yes, the original casting is somewhat of a "dumb-dumb" casting in that there is a huge hump on one side of the wheel. To me, there was always a question of if it could be machined safely on the inner side because of material thickness.
I do have a set of the current reproductions as well and agreed that the major difference is they are machined on the inner surface of the wheel where the originals are not.
Even so, when I did my "Big Lincoln" T/A brake project, I used current repros in front and there still was contact in the same area of the wheel and after spacing the caliper and rotor inboards as much as possible. A 1/8" spacer was still necessary.
It's ironic though that both wheels, original and reproduction, require the same amount of balance weight and in the same spot...with or without a "hump"! ;D
Incidentally, who's to say that those exported Shelby's didn't have the wheel machined on the inside to fix the issue? That "fix" thought has occurred to more then one person.
That's interesting. I see so many '68's with the 10-spokes on them. I thought they were a '68-only wheel. So the majority of the '68 Shelbys were sold with wheel covers? Really?
Quote from: SNAKEBIT on November 09, 2018, 10:57:17 AM
That's interesting. I see so many '68's with the 10-spokes on them. I thought they were a '68-only wheel. So the majority of the '68 Shelbys were sold with wheel covers? Really?
That's true. All of them had wheel cover. Only the very few mentioned had the 10-spoke.
The 10-Spoke variation you are thinking of is a '67 wheel, which one one of the three choices available.
Has anyone explained why a teenie percentage of '68 Shelbys were ordered/sold with the 10-spoke wheels? Most of the '67 Shelbys I see have the Mag-Star type. Is the Mag-Star the fancy wheel covers you could buy back then or are they they ones I've seen made from aluminum or steel?
Quote from: SNAKEBIT on November 09, 2018, 02:51:59 PM
Has anyone explained why a teenie percentage of '68 Shelbys were ordered/sold with the 10-spoke wheels? Most of the '67 Shelbys I see have the Mag-Star type. Is the Mag-Star the fancy wheel covers you could buy back then or are they they ones I've seen made from aluminum or steel?
The problem was discovered that the 67 tenspokes would not clear the new for 68 single piston caliper. That is why so few were equipped. Those few were shipped out of the country most likely for liability reasons. Three wheels available for 67 Shelby. Magstar , Tenspoke and steel wheels with special hubcap which was the base wheel. All were 15 inch. The non hubcap wheels were referred to as "Deluxe " wheels.
It is my understanding that early "Deluxe wheel" option cars received Mag-Star wheels and later production got the 10 spokes. Is there a date or s/n time range for the transition from one to the other? I believe this was discussed and the information was on Forum v1.0 but my memory doesn't go that far back.
PL
Quote from: lawrence on November 09, 2018, 07:43:36 PM
It is my understanding that early "Deluxe wheel" option cars received Mag-Star wheels and later production got the 10 spokes. Is there a date or s/n time range for the transition from one to the other? I believe this was discussed and the information was on Forum v1.0 but my memory doesn't go that far back.
PL
FYI SA went back to magstars after the tenspokes that were predominnetly used in the middle of production. Magstars then Ten spokes then back to magstars.
Ok, I think I got a good grip on the '67 wheel info. Thanks everyone.
My car,had repo 10 spokes when purchased, with a option "deluxe wheel" on list. I'm trying to determine what should have been there for a Jun delivery. That's what will go on until I find what should be there or what I want there.
PL
Quote from: lawrence on November 09, 2018, 10:56:31 PM
My car,had repo 10 spokes when purchased, with a option "deluxe wheel" on list. I'm trying to determine what should have been there for a Jun delivery. That's what will go on until I find what should be there or what I want there.
PL
You might contact Dave Mathews as he may have some definitive paperwork one way or the other.
I never heard specific dates other then, "after a certain date" with the 10 spokes. The invoices just say "deluxe".
I'm sure that if one was negotiating with a dealer, you'd have some influence on the wheels, especially if it was a larger dealer like Larsen or Gotham.
Howard Parde tells a story about Bill Kolb not letting him leave without the car at Larsen on his first '65.
The vast majority were just hub cap cars.
2011 Registry list for '67 Shelby's:
Wheel Covers - 842 = 26%
Mag Stars - 1365 = 42%
10-Spokes - 993 = 31%
Quote from: JD on November 10, 2018, 09:00:23 AM
2011 Registry list for '67 Shelby's:
Wheel Covers - 842 = 26%
Mag Stars - 1365 = 42%
10-Spokes - 993 = 31%
That may be JD but that isn't my experience here.
I suppose it depends on the nature of the original purchaser? I once had an "older" person tell me that when I hit a certain age, hub caps would be the best idea ever invented. ;D
Are those specs from the original invoices or the current condition report?
Here KR convertibles were just an alternative to the "Good Neighbor Sam" T-bird. They were both Spoatz cazs. There was no room for the cigar in the KR and the roll bar was a Fedora knocker.
Just look at the '68 owners. You don't even need to bend over to wash the wheels but personally I think you should increase your liability coverage because one of those things will eventually fly off and kill everyone on a tour bus?
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 10, 2018, 09:39:24 AM
Are those specs from the original invoices or the current condition report?
From page 38 of the 2011 SAAC registry.
See attached - based on factory production numbers - not dealers or Owners.
I asked Dave about wheels a while back. He mentioned on the PO's the "Deluxe wheels" were Magstars, the "Shelby wheels" were 10-spokes, leaving us with the "Standard wheels" as the steel rims with hubcaps. On Brian Styles website, he had a note that all the hubcap cars were ordered in the middle of the production run on a few of the larger ordered DSOs. I believe he even mentions the date, but I can't recall it at the moment.
Looking at my data spreadsheet (based on registry data), certainly all the early cars had Magstars up until early March when hubcaps started to sprinkle into the mix. That is followed shortly after by 10-spokes also sprinkled in. By mid production Magstar fade out with a fairly even mix of Hubcaps and 10-spokes, although some Magstars are still lightly mixed in. About 2/3 of the way Magstars seem to increase again in numbers over the other two. As production nears the end, 10-spoke increase over Magstars with a few hubcaps cars lightly mixed in.
The best bet here is too update the registrar on your car's history and ask for a copy of the PO (very small fee). If the PO is available, you can see which box is checked off for wheels on you car. If you have a registry, you can look in the registry on the grid code pages to see if your car VIN has a wheel option noted. I keep that info in my data file as well, so if you share the Shelby VIN we can look up this info too.
Quote from: Richstang on November 10, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
I asked Dave about wheels a while back. He mentioned on the PO's the "Deluxe wheels" were Magstars, the "Shelby wheels" were 10-spokes, leaving us with the "Standard wheels" as the steel rims with hubcaps. On Brian Styles website, he had a note that all the hubcap cars were ordered in the middle of the production run on a few of the larger ordered DSOs. I believe he even mentions the date, but I can't recall it at the moment.
Looking at my data spreadsheet (based on registry data), certainly all the early cars had Magstars up until early March when hubcaps started to sprinkle into the mix. That is followed shortly after by 10-spokes also sprinkled in. By mid production Magstar fade out with a fairly even mix of Hubcaps and 10-spokes, although some Magstars are still lightly mixed in. About 2/3 of the way Magstars seem to increase again in numbers over the other two. As production nears the end, 10-spoke increase over Magstars with a few hubcaps cars lightly mixed in.
The best bet here is too update the registrar on your car's history and ask for a copy of the PO (very small fee). If the PO is available, you can see which box is checked off for wheels on you car. If you have a registry, you can look in the registry on the grid code pages to see if your car VIN has a wheel option noted. I keep that info in my data file as well, so if you share the Shelby VIN we can look up this info too.
Be sure your data in the case of late production cars takes into consideration that the registry data you are looking at is predominantly owner reported data vs Factory data. The factory data is going to give a better picture of what came on the cars vs owner reported data which will include owner personalization . I wanted to mention that because the late production cars seemed to be mostly magstar's from my observation. Dave's has the factory data will indicate one way or the other. I don't think there has been a correlation showing what the car was delivered with vs. how the owners report.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 10, 2018, 12:25:31 PM
Quote from: Richstang on November 10, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
I asked Dave about wheels a while back. He mentioned on the PO's the "Deluxe wheels" were Magstars, the "Shelby wheels" were 10-spokes, leaving us with the "Standard wheels" as the steel rims with hubcaps. On Brian Styles website, he had a note that all the hubcap cars were ordered in the middle of the production run on a few of the larger ordered DSOs. I believe he even mentions the date, but I can't recall it at the moment.
Looking at my data spreadsheet (based on registry data), certainly all the early cars had Magstars up until early March when hubcaps started to sprinkle into the mix. That is followed shortly after by 10-spokes also sprinkled in. By mid production Magstar fade out with a fairly even mix of Hubcaps and 10-spokes, although some Magstars are still lightly mixed in. About 2/3 of the way Magstars seem to increase again in numbers over the other two. As production nears the end, 10-spoke increase over Magstars with a few hubcaps cars lightly mixed in.
The best bet here is too update the registrar on your car's history and ask for a copy of the PO (very small fee). If the PO is available, you can see which box is checked off for wheels on you car. If you have a registry, you can look in the registry on the grid code pages to see if your car VIN has a wheel option noted. I keep that info in my data file as well, so if you share the Shelby VIN we can look up this info too.
Be sure your data in the case of late production cars takes into consideration that the registry data you are looking at is predominantly owner reported data vs Factory data. The factory data is going to give a better picture of what came on the cars vs owner reported data which will include owner personalization . I wanted to mention that because the late production cars seemed to be mostly magstar's from my observation. Dave's has the factory data will indicate one way or the other. I don't think there has been a correlation showing what the car was delivered with vs. how the owners report.
Your point about owner supplied info versus Factory paperwork is a well taken. I'll take a look at the PO's I have gathered and check against the registry grid codes. Since SAI supplied the "Deluxe" and "Shelby" wheels to Ford, it would make more sense that SJ built the cars with the same wheel types in large groups.
The registry does state the info is based on factory data.
So are you guys saying you feel the count is wrong because it's too high or because it's too low?
If the info (regarding the wheel types) was based on owner reports wouldn't it be much less then the 26% published?
Most cars that got the steel wheels and wheel covers seem to have had them replaced with one of the other two options (which seems to be supported by what we see at events).
(I realize the registry is not perfect, it does have some errors in it and I'm not saying it cannot be questioned.)
Quote from: JD on November 10, 2018, 10:53:20 PM
The registry does state the info is based on factory data.
So are you guys saying you feel the count is wrong because it's too high or because it's too low?
If the info (regarding the wheel types) was based on owner reports wouldn't it be much less then the 26% published?
Most cars that got the steel wheels and wheel covers seem to have had them replaced with one of the other two options (which seems to be supported by what we see at events).
(I realize the registry is not perfect, it does have some errors in it and I'm not saying it cannot be questioned.)
I get the impression that you have misinterpreted the the past couple of posts . If you are referring to percentages of different wheels then we are in agreement with the percentages of wheels that the registry has posted and that it is factory info. I was referring to how the different wheels were distributed on cars in production and whether the registry grids were reflecting how the owners claimed the cars were now or whether the information was from factory records on how they left SA (wheels were installed at Ford).
^^^ Oh, OK thanks!
It isn't anything to argue over. It's just a little confusing. My 67 is 3074. A picture of it from the late '70s shows it with Magstars.
Dave says that there is no PO for it and that it came with 10 spokes.
The Marti report indicates it was a base model with the base wheel option which would be the steel wheel/hub caps.
That right there throws inaccuracy into those stats.
So it breaks down to 3 wheel options with roughly 1/3 production of each.
Now it is worth pointing out that some dealers would have tailored the car to the new purchasers tastes in order to move it out.
Besides the "required extra dealer installed options" like under coating, floor mats and 'hot wax' (and maybe a racoon tail hanging on the rear view mirror) guys like Kolb could have altered the car from what the factory did before it was delivered to it's first owner.
Kolb also spread himself around between at least two high volume dealers, Larsen and Kolb. His high pressure antics are probably the biggest reason Chevys were big in our family.
Something for the Judges to consider.
Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.
As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.
Bob,
All of the PO's I have gathered match the grid code pages wheel data. As JD pointed out in the 2011 registry, PO's were used to gather the quantities, and where PO's were missing owner supplied info was used in its place. There are about 28 cars with no data across the entire production run. I've noted the current wheels on about 6 of those cars and keep track of them separately.
This has been very interesting and informative reading. Thanks for diggin' around and putting up factory and club (one in the same) information about these wheels on this forum. I guess that the registry is what helps the rest of us, understand what was ordered back then and how many of these cars are known? Most of this discussion is way over my head. Fascinating, captain. 8)
Quote from: Richstang on November 11, 2018, 10:57:55 AM
Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.
As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.
It is not my position to argue with data. What I am saying is that there is conflicting data. The Marti report simply doesn't agree with the DSO
INTERPRETATION.
I'm fine with the DSO showing 10 spokes for it. In fact, that's the wheel I have for it.
I'm just pointing out the contradictions.
I would agree to the PO as being the tie breaker, but it has yet to surface for this car. If there is a contradiction with my car, how many others fall into that category?
I personally wouldn't "risk my life" on "Shelby data", but that's just me. ;)
FYI in concours competition we have never deducted for wheel option. Factory type wheel or not and or condition yes. You have the way the cars left the factory however I have heard first hand stories of buyers of hubcap cars insisting on a upgrade to a different factory wheel . I have heard stories of magstar car buyers trading for the tenspokes . Believe it or not I have also heard stories of the reverse being done meaning wanting the hubcaps instead of the optional wheels to bring the cost down a couple hundred dollars. It didn't happen all of the time(trading wheels) but apparently not that out of the ordinary. With that said and what with being delivered to first customer from the dealer the line in the sand so to speak in good conscience I felt it makes the most sense to give the benefit of the doubt for this occurrence. At least when I am judging . Others may think differently.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 11, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
FYI in concours competition we have never deducted for wheel option. Factory type wheel or not and or condition yes. You have the way the cars left the factory however I have heard first hand stories of buyers of hubcap cars insisting on a upgrade to a different factory wheel . I have heard stories of magstar car buyers trading for the tenspokes . Believe it or not I have also heard stories of the reverse being done meaning wanting the hubcaps instead of the optional wheels to bring the cost down a couple hundred dollars. It didn't happen all of the time(trading wheels) but apparently not that out of the ordinary. With that said and what with being delivered to first customer from the dealer the line in the sand so to speak in good conscience I felt it makes the most sense to give the benefit of the doubt for this occurrence. At least when I am judging . Others may think differently.
The Supreme Court should be as fair.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 11, 2018, 11:11:13 AM
Quote from: Richstang on November 11, 2018, 10:57:55 AM
Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.
As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.
It is not my position to argue with data. What I am saying is that there is conflicting data. The Marti report simply doesn't agree with the DSO INTERPRETATION.
I'm fine with the DSO showing 10 spokes for it. In fact, that's the wheel I have for it.
I'm just pointing out the contradictions.
I would agree to the PO as being the tie breaker, but it has yet to surface for this car. If there is a contradiction with my car, how many others fall into that category?
I personally wouldn't "risk my life" on "Shelby data", but that's just me. ;)
Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)
Regarding the wheels, I was under the impression that Marti got his info from Dave not the Ford Data. However, since Dave was likely using the PO's as the source of the wheel info, that's where the conflict may have occurred. Each may have assumed different wheels based on the DSO info in the microfilms or SVO sheets. I don't have a copy of either of these for your cars DSO group.
I have found some Ford documents (SVO sheets) that list the deleted wheel and cover assembly and noted to add "Customer Supplied" wheels. But the question becomes, like the packaged and interior trim codes, should the wheels be the same across the entire DSO? I would think yes for wheel covers versus Shelby supplied wheels, but maybe the breakdown doesn't exist in Ford data for the two different Shelby supplied wheels.
I'm not sure we'll ever know how many other cars have wheel contradictions comparing the Registry to Marti reports or to the DSO groups.
Either way, it's good to hear there is no penalty in judging for wheels versions, as long as they are factory correct.
I thought Marti had the films and was supplying info to SAAC, not the other way around. (?)
I think Marti has the ford records and SAAC has the Shelby American stuff (which ol shel tried to get back at one point...cringe)
Marti would likely would have the most complete Ford data available, while SAAC / Dave may not have every DSO, including cancelled orders, and every change notice issued.
I suspect Ford only had two options listed, "Kelsey Steel wheels with Covers" or "Customer Supplied" (Magstar "Deluxe" or "Shelby" 10-spoke).
Thus the SAI PO's are critical as the deciding factor on the Customer Supplied aspect.
Dave would likely have supplied that info to Marti and therefore would likely be the more trusted source for wheel type.
[/quote]
Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)
[/quote]
Yes. Although the car was purchased from Gotham Ford in NY, NY, the original owner drove the car to LA to go to school.
While he was there, the car was serviced by Mel Burns Ford and he had the stripes painted on by them.
I did ask him if he knew that they were the "Super Snake" stripes and he didn't know what that was and why he picked this stripe pattern.
He asked me if the car "still had the GT40 seats in it?" They didn't when I bought it and I've never seen anything that would resemble that kind of seat in a "Mustang" or for that matter, any other car.
Also claimed to have had Burns install a 427 "block",
Just part of the unique history of this car.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 11, 2018, 07:40:34 PM
Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)
[/quote]
Yes. Although the car was purchased from Gotham Ford in NY, NY, the original owner drove the car to LA to go to school.
While he was there, the car was serviced by Mel Burns Ford and he had the stripes painted on by them.
I did ask him if he knew that they were the "Super Snake" stripes and he didn't know what that was and why he picked this stripe pattern.
He asked me if the car "still had the GT40 seats in it?" They didn't when I bought it and I've never seen anything that would resemble that kind of seat in a "Mustang" or for that matter, any other car.
Also claimed to have had Burns install a 427 "block",
Just part of the unique history of this car.
[/quote]
That's an interesting past for the car. Would be curious to see what the GT40 seats would look like, I assume they were some kind of aftermarket part.
It is the ONLY time I have EVER heard anyone refer to GT40 seats, in anything other then a GT40.
The original owners name is Maurice Grunfeld. He was from Brooklyn and I found his name in the telephone directory not far from here so I called. I don't recall how I knew that he was the original owner though? That info might have come from Criswell and given to the SAAC Registry.
No one can find Clark Criswell and people like Howard Parde, who owned this car briefly, never heard of him except for the Registry mention.
I mentioned that GT40's really didn't have seats like you would find in a Mustang and were more part of a build in to those cars. He insisted they were GT40 seats and that Mel Burns Ford installed them.
He insisted about the 427 "block" as well.
I recall seeing these swivel seats in the '66-'67 Mustang Mach I show car. I guess you could say they look like GT40 seats.
Now, I think I have seen these seats before.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 11, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
It isn't anything to argue over. It's just a little confusing. My 67 is 3074. A picture of it from the late '70s shows it with Magstars.
Dave says that there is no PO for it and that it came with 10 spokes.
The Marti report indicates it was a base model with the base wheel option which would be the steel wheel/hub caps.
That right there throws inaccuracy into those stats.
So it breaks down to 3 wheel options with roughly 1/3 production of each.
Now it is worth pointing out that some dealers would have tailored the car to the new purchasers tastes in order to move it out.
Besides the "required extra dealer installed options" like under coating, floor mats and 'hot wax' (and maybe a racoon tail hanging on the rear view mirror) guys like Kolb could have altered the car from what the factory did before it was delivered to it's first owner.
Kolb also spread himself around between at least two high volume dealers, Larsen and Kolb. His high pressure antics are probably the biggest reason Chevys were big in our family.
Something for the Judges to consider.
Here's 3074 sitting in Leuchner's driveway in 1976.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/107-121118203227.jpeg)
Thanks for posting the photo...Wheel Covers at 9 years old...a few later made a big difference in its appearance.
Quote from: Vcode on November 12, 2018, 08:36:09 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 11, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
It isn't anything to argue over. It's just a little confusing. My 67 is 3074. A picture of it from the late '70s shows it with Magstars.
Dave says that there is no PO for it and that it came with 10 spokes.
The Marti report indicates it was a base model with the base wheel option which would be the steel wheel/hub caps.
That right there throws inaccuracy into those stats.
So it breaks down to 3 wheel options with roughly 1/3 production of each.
Now it is worth pointing out that some dealers would have tailored the car to the new purchasers tastes in order to move it out.
Besides the "required extra dealer installed options" like under coating, floor mats and 'hot wax' (and maybe a racoon tail hanging on the rear view mirror) guys like Kolb could have altered the car from what the factory did before it was delivered to it's first owner.
Kolb also spread himself around between at least two high volume dealers, Larsen and Kolb. His high pressure antics are probably the biggest reason Chevys were big in our family.
Something for the Judges to consider.
Here's 3074 sitting in Leuchner's driveway in 1976.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/107-121118203227.jpeg)
No hubcaps ever offered to me.
That's black spray paint making it look like a graffiti car. No sign of GT40 seats at that point.
Obviously Leuchener saved it from an alternative fait.
Interesting no one remembers who Howard bought it from and no one knew who Clark Criswell is?
It was actually a very solid car at that point.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 13, 2018, 07:14:12 AM
Quote from: Vcode on November 12, 2018, 08:36:09 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 11, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
It isn't anything to argue over. It's just a little confusing. My 67 is 3074. A picture of it from the late '70s shows it with Magstars.
Dave says that there is no PO for it and that it came with 10 spokes.
The Marti report indicates it was a base model with the base wheel option which would be the steel wheel/hub caps.
That right there throws inaccuracy into those stats.
So it breaks down to 3 wheel options with roughly 1/3 production of each.
Now it is worth pointing out that some dealers would have tailored the car to the new purchasers tastes in order to move it out.
Besides the "required extra dealer installed options" like under coating, floor mats and 'hot wax' (and maybe a racoon tail hanging on the rear view mirror) guys like Kolb could have altered the car from what the factory did before it was delivered to it's first owner.
Kolb also spread himself around between at least two high volume dealers, Larsen and Kolb. His high pressure antics are probably the biggest reason Chevys were big in our family.
Something for the Judges to consider.
Here's 3074 sitting in Leuchner's driveway in 1976.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/107-121118203227.jpeg)
No hubcaps ever offered to me.
That's black spray paint making it look like a graffiti car. No sign of GT40 seats at that point.
Obviously Leuchener saved it from an alternative fait.
Interesting no one remembers who Howard bought it from and no one knew who Clark Criswell is?
It was actually a very solid car at that point.
Clark sold the car to Howard.