OK, I'm looking for some help on proper cylinder heads for my 67 GT500, #906. Car presently has C8AE heads and headers on it and I'd like to return it more to stock configuration.
I purchased a set of C7AE-A cylinder heads with the 16 bolt pattern and a set of "stock" (as advertised) exhaust manifolds, numbered C60E-9430-A and C70E-9431-A. The problem is the exhaust manifolds don't fit the 16 bolt pattern on the heads, the upper front bolt hole on the heads are off about 1/2".
I know that there were 8, 14 & 16 bolt configurations, but were the one's used on the PI engines the 14 or 16 bolt configuration??
Thanks for any help.
I think that they are all the same casting, just drilled with more holes. The pattern is the same as far as I know.
I think that the 14 bolt is production line and the 16 bolt is a service part?
If you look at the 8 bolt, the undrilled castings are there for 16 bolt holes. In production on a Mustang engine compartment, you can't reach 2 of the additional locations anyway, so for the 25 cents worth of labor Ford left them undrilled.
16 bolt heads are actually 8 bolt heads with additional holes drilled for the Mustang. So that head could be used in service for a big Galaxie or a Mustang.
What I am thinking is, if you bought these heads used, probably someone other then Ford attempted to drill the additional holes and didn't have the manifolds there at the time to use as a templet.
Quote from: nwfire on November 29, 2018, 06:12:20 PM
OK, I'm looking for some help on proper cylinder heads for my 67 GT500, #906. Car presently has C8AE heads and headers on it and I'd like to return it more to stock configuration.
I purchased a set of C7AE-A cylinder heads with the 16 bolt pattern and a set of "stock" (as advertised) exhaust manifolds, numbered C60E-9430-A and C70E-9431-A. The problem is the exhaust manifolds don't fit the 16 bolt pattern on the heads, the upper front bolt hole on the heads are off about 1/2".
I know that there were 8, 14 & 16 bolt configurations, but were the one's used on the PI engines the 14 or 16 bolt configuration??
Thanks for any help.
Any pictures by chance?
Quote from: nwfire on November 29, 2018, 06:12:20 PM
OK, I'm looking for some help on proper cylinder heads for my 67 GT500, #906. Car presently has C8AE heads and headers on it and I'd like to return it more to stock configuration.
I purchased a set of C7AE-A cylinder heads with the 16 bolt pattern and a set of "stock" (as advertised) exhaust manifolds, numbered C60E-9430-A and C70E-9431-A. The problem is the exhaust manifolds don't fit the 16 bolt pattern on the heads, the upper front bolt hole on the heads are off about 1/2".
I know that there were 8, 14 & 16 bolt configurations, but were the one's used on the PI engines the 14 or 16 bolt configuration??
Thanks for any help.
You should have the 14 bolt configuration and there are no bolt holes in the lower center and both top end bolts are lower on the port than the two center upper bolts. You didn't but them off Ebay did you? There is a guy there that does FE Ford heads with new SS valves, springs and Viton seals. He usually drills them himself and they are the even 16 bolt pattern.
Here is a pic of a stock C7AE-A GT cylinder head. 14 bolt pattern....notice the top bolt holes on the ends are slightly lower than the others. If your heads are have the top bolt holes the same height, probably 8 bolt heads that have been drilled out to 16 bolt holes....done a lot of times for headers
Will 428 SCJ iron manifolds bolt up to the stock 390GT (428 PI) pattern shown above in Craig's picture? Always heard that was done back in the day.
here is a 428 CJ head..C8OE-N..16 bolt holes...I don't think CJ manifolds will bolt up because the top bolt hole on the end of the CJ manifold is higher than on the 390 GT head
I have seen the 14 bolt configuration drilled with the even 16 bolt pattern. The two end exhaust ports wind up with two holes at the end position.
You also won't be able to put the engine hooks back on with the CJ manifolds.
Ok something similar but different. Can any earlier cylinder head whether 8-14 holes be drilled properly to 16 holes, and fit in a 67 and newer Mustang or Cougar with GT exhaust manifolds or with headers? :-\
yes but the machinist has to be very good and it will cost you . best have a real set of manifolds there to do it right
Quote from: 427heaven on November 30, 2018, 05:54:33 PM
Ok something similar but different. Can any earlier cylinder head whether 8-14 holes be drilled properly to 16 holes, and fit in a 67 and newer Mustang or Cougar with GT exhaust manifolds or with headers? :-\
Yes I did it. You just need the set of manifolds that you are going to use there to use as patterns.
Once accurately marked and center punched, you can do it with a hand drill and tap set.
Ok great news, but wasn't the exhaust port lower on the heads to get the manifolds to clear the Mustangs shock towers? Another question is can an early 63 427 block, motor mounts be drilled from the 2 holes to the more common 3 hole motor mounts of later FE blocks?
Quote from: 427heaven on November 30, 2018, 06:14:09 PM
Ok great news, but wasn't the exhaust port lower on the heads to get the manifolds to clear the Mustangs shock towers?
Answer: Not the exhaust port in the cylinder head.
QuoteAnother question is can an early 63 427 block, motor mounts be drilled from the 2 holes to the more common 3 hole motor mounts of later FE blocks?
No, the cast bosses needed on the side of the the block are not present to do such properly. :(
Scott.
Ok Thanks for the answer... Let me go the other way has any one used an early Fe, in a newer Mustang chassis using the old original engine mounts on the block, and then what modifications are needed to adapt to the frame mounts? :(
I originally had C2SE-C 406 tripower heads on my Shelby. Yes, they fit. The two center lower bolts cause one to use almost every word of the four letter variety many times over as you work to get them tight.
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on December 09, 2018, 04:11:01 PM
I originally had C2SE-C 406 tripower heads on my Shelby. Yes, they fit. The two center lower bolts cause one to use almost every word of the four letter variety many times over as you work to get them tight.
-Keith
I didn't think it was possible to get them? I believe that the 67 427 Fairlane had holes drilled in it to reach those bolts and plugs put in the holes?
Ok I am a little slow tonight, how can I bolt in a 63 427 engine that has 2 holes for engine mounts in a mid 60s Mustang that uses different frame mounts, that wouldn't require an engineering degree to figure out? ;D
Maybe if I can get this early 427 conundrum figured out I can put my 62 406 W/ 428 crank= 428ci to good use in something. :)
Anyone install an early 2 bolt engine mount FE engine, in a mid to late 60s Mustang? :-\
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 09, 2018, 07:18:07 PM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on December 09, 2018, 04:11:01 PM
I originally had C2SE-C 406 tripower heads on my Shelby. Yes, they fit. The two center lower bolts cause one to use almost every word of the four letter variety many times over as you work to get them tight.
-Keith
I didn't think it was possible to get them? I believe that the 67 427 Fairlane had holes drilled in it to reach those bolts and plugs put in the holes?
Doug, I don't think you could use any cast iron exhaust manifolds with them, but with the headers you can get to the vertical pattern bolts with different 3/8" wrenches. The 6114 Hookers on my vehicle allow relatively easy access to the end lower locations. However, the reason for my change post the rebuild was to make access slightly easier. There are still a couple positions that are very difficult to get started. They are the ones to the rear side of the tubing. Hooker didn't dimple the header enough to start them easily.
-Keith
Yes, you can also use the two bolt block mount. One bolt is where it belongs, the other has to be drilled.
-Keith
Keith- I can purchase the 2 bolt engine mounts most everywhere, the problem is the frame mounts... and trying to drill the frame mounts to get the stud located in the engine mount to drop in a properly located hole in the frame mounts. The 65 and newer motor mounts did not have a stud system so to speak. :-\
It's because you use the mustang block plate, it just requires one hole to be drilled in the plate. The other is in the correct position. You no longer use three bolts like the 65-up blocks. Many a 427 two bolt blocks are in mustangs.
-Keith
So what parts are recommended? A gt- 390 Cougar, Fairlane set of engine mounts modified to fit frame mounts. I am trying to avoid drilling a hole in frame mount where stud of standard old 390 mounts would allow engine to sit improperly in engine bay.
Quote from: 427heaven on December 01, 2018, 04:34:34 PM
Ok Thanks for the answer... Let me go the other way has any one used an early Fe, in a newer Mustang chassis using the old original engine mounts on the block, and then what modifications are needed to adapt to the frame mounts? :(
I put a '63 low riser in a '69 Mustang ( 390 originally) and only used two bolts . Never had an issue.
Quote from: gt350hr on December 12, 2018, 10:53:49 AM
Quote from: 427heaven on December 01, 2018, 04:34:34 PM
Ok Thanks for the answer... Let me go the other way has any one used an early Fe, in a newer Mustang chassis using the old original engine mounts on the block, and then what modifications are needed to adapt to the frame mounts? :(
You use EVERYTHING that is currently used to mount the FE into the mustang. The only changes are one hole in the block plate that the rubber insulator bolts to. Otherwise there are no changes. I know MANY who have used the earlier two bolt blocks.
+1 Drill one hole and bolt the plate on the block . No problem after that except the damn header bolts ARG.
Thanks guys... :)
QuoteAnother question is can an early 63 427 block, motor mounts be drilled from the 2 holes to the more common 3 hole motor mounts of later FE blocks?
QuoteNo, the cast bosses needed on the side of the the block are not present to do such properly. :(
Scott.
I feel the above statement is correct, as the inquiry was of an "early '63 block", but note there are some '64 FE blocks with the cast bosses for the later 3-bolt mounts (blocks are actually most often machined with a total of four bolt holes), but only drilled & tapped for the earlier two bolt configuration.
I realize this may not be directly relevant to the original inquiry, but I felt perhaps it may prove so in a future review. :-\
Scott.
Scott- I have a 62- 406 and an early 63-427 I want to put to good use in a Mustang application. These are 2 bolt cast in holes for engine mounts, the question is what mounts for both the frame and the engine are used. Answer seems to be purchase a later set of engine mounts drill the mounts using only two of the bolt holes and everything will work out. Whew hope it works thanks to all that have helped out here.