I'm pulling my question about Concours GT350 axle markings out of the "SPEC" thread (http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1689.0) and into its own thread here.
Although I asked for specifics on all paint markings, maybe it's better to just concentrate of a few specific areas of the rear axle. But if you have any pics of your original axle housing, you can post them here or email them to me if you like.
Some of general areas relating to Concours restoration were dealt with in the Perkins article here:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1703-detailing-and-restoring-the-mustang-9-inch-rear-axle/
I understand that the axle assembly in question is from a later car, but some of his restoration tips may well apply to the 67 cars. I would not copy them indiscriminately.
I'll start with the paper tag.
Can anyone vouch for the existence of a Sterling paper tag on the housing?
Quote from: Bossbill on December 18, 2018, 01:26:04 PM
I'm pulling my question about Concours GT350 axle markings out of the "SPEC" thread (http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1689.0) and into its own thread here.
Although I asked for specifics on all paint markings, maybe it's better to just concentrate of a few specific areas of the rear axle. But if you have any pics of your original axle housing, you can post them here or email them to me if you like.
Some of general areas relating to Concours restoration were dealt with in the Perkins article here:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1703-detailing-and-restoring-the-mustang-9-inch-rear-axle/
I understand that the axle assembly in question is from a later car, but some of his restoration tips may well apply to the 67 cars. I would not copy them indiscriminately.
I'll start with the paper tag.
Can anyone vouch for the existence of a Sterling paper tag on the housing?
That article that is extremely good for a 69/70 but will cause problems if you follow it for a 67 Shelby. Yes there are many things that apply . Many things do not apply to a 67 Shelby. Unless you know which is which you can get into trouble. Yes the paper tag was on the housing . The one on 0001 was intact but yellowed and brittle. I sent it off 30 years ago to someone (still in the business) I trusted to copy it and he lost it with no apology. >:( A few people make them like dead nuts on . The paper tag info comes from the info on the metal tag.
Has anyone reproduced the paper tag since then? Would they be universal to a '67 Shelby?
Shelbydoug --
https://www.deadnutson.com/rear-axle-paper-id-tags/
According to his chart for 68, the code for a 68 GT350 is different than a 68 GT500.
That may indicate the same is true for 67.
It may be that the axle code for a 67 GT350 is the same as for the 68 GT350.
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 19, 2018, 07:25:57 AM
Has anyone reproduced the paper tag since then? Would they be universal to a '67 Shelby?
Re read my post. Dead Nuts On offers some I think they source them from another . It is different information on the tag/sticker depending on rear end ratio. As the BP article indicates they were used well into the future . I have not seen a example earlier then 67 production year. They were used at least on the 9 inch rears . I have not investigated if they were used on the 8 inch rear but would not be surprised.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 19, 2018, 02:39:15 PM
......................... I have not seen a example earlier then 67 production year. They were used at least on the 9 inch rears . I have not investigated if they were used on the 8 inch rear but would not be surprised.
Yes the paper ID labels were used on 8" also back at least into 65 production. Different color paper as well as codes of course
The application chart that I see on their page is too small to read and doesn't enlarge for me. Is there a separate link for that chart?
Click on this pic.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 20, 2018, 12:46:46 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 19, 2018, 02:39:15 PM
......................... I have not seen a example earlier then 67 production year. They were used at least on the 9 inch rears . I have not investigated if they were used on the 8 inch rear but would not be surprised.
Yes the paper ID labels were used on 8" also back at least into 65 production. Different color paper as well as codes of course
Jeff, have you seen them on 65/66 Shelby nine inch rears or just the 8 inch?
You betcha.
But, it doesn't clear up anything for 67.
My correct metal tag -- I assume it's correct due to the correct-for-my-build date, axle ratio, and 'other markings' (plus all the correct attributes of my housing and brakes) -- has a Sterling plant code that is at odds with the 68 chart.
In the Perkins write-up the axle tube's hand written plant code, the paper tape and the tag all agree.
I'm not going out on a limb and saying 67 GT350 axle assemblies would have a 70-style hand written plant code on the tube as I find no evidence of that on mine (yet), but one would think (uh-oh, here we go) that at minimum the tag's Sterling plant code and the paper tape would agree.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 20, 2018, 01:39:11 PM
Jeff, have you seen them on 65/66 Shelby nine inch rears or just the 8 inch?
Both
Quote from: Bossbill on December 22, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
I'm not going out on a limb and saying 67 GT350 axle assemblies would have a 70-style hand written plant code on the tube as I find no evidence of that on mine (yet), but one would think (uh-oh, here we go) that at minimum the tag's Sterling plant code and the paper tape would agree.
Would not agree and that is why I didn't mention that to you in our discussions.
I've not found writing on the axles tubes (other than a couple of numbers, a line or the writing in the nook of the drivers side tube to center center housing I mentioned in a PM) on any of the early 65-68 San Jose built cars so think you can give up the search ;)
Quote from: Bossbill on December 18, 2018, 01:26:04 PM
I'm pulling my question about Concours GT350 axle markings out of the "SPEC" thread (http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1689.0) and into its own thread here.
Although I asked for specifics on all paint markings, maybe it's better to just concentrate of a few specific areas of the rear axle. But if you have any pics of your original axle housing, you can post them here or email them to me if you like.
Some of general areas relating to Concours restoration were dealt with in the Perkins article here:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1703-detailing-and-restoring-the-mustang-9-inch-rear-axle/
I understand that the axle assembly in question is from a later car, but some of his restoration tips may well apply to the 67 cars. I would not copy them indiscriminately.
I'll start with the paper tag.
Can anyone vouch for the existence of a Sterling paper tag on the housing?
This tag that is wrapped around the axle tube is for a 67 GT350 4 speed .
I envision these labels as being on a wide roll of masking tape type material?
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 22, 2018, 07:06:24 PM
I envision these labels as being on a wide roll of masking tape type material?
Haven't seen that sort of texture to the paper not evidence (though it may be long gone) of adhesive Just haven't seen anything on the axle after they are long gone though oy makes sense that something had to hold them to the axle tube between assembly/completion and when they were installed in the car.
Ends are normally pretty neat and without design from what I've seen so far so maybe premeasured, unlike , for comparison, engine ID stickers with their jagged ends.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 22, 2018, 07:14:00 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 22, 2018, 07:06:24 PM
I envision these labels as being on a wide roll of masking tape type material?
Haven't seen that sort of texture to the paper not evidence (though it may be long gone) of adhesive Just haven't seen anything on the axle after they are long gone though oy makes sense that something had to hold them to the axle tube between assembly/completion and when they were installed in the car.
Ends are normally pretty neat and without design from what I've seen so far so maybe premeasured, unlike , for comparison, engine ID stickers with their jagged ends.
I don't remember a label on my 68 and there is no evidence of one being on my 67. The picture of a partial posted here shows nothing where the label was. Water soluble glue?
If it was put on like a bracelet and only glued to itself where it overlapped then this partial would be some sort of an anomaly?
Finding an original still on a car today is very rare. Uncoated paper and where it was located both work against almost any chance for longevity
Maybe the reproductions should be made slightly different with the longevity a consideration?
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 22, 2018, 07:14:00 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 22, 2018, 07:06:24 PM
I envision these labels as being on a wide roll of masking tape type material?
Haven't seen that sort of texture to the paper not evidence (though it may be long gone) of adhesive Just haven't seen anything on the axle after they are long gone though oy makes sense that something had to hold them to the axle tube between assembly/completion and when they were installed in the car.
Ends are normally pretty neat and without design from what I've seen so far so maybe premeasured, unlike , for comparison, engine ID stickers with their jagged ends.
+1 typically only adhesive residue left . You rarely find them . They probably didn't last long when the car was driven in weather like rain or snow. The paper was only for line workers to identify assembly no thought was given to longevity past that. When I have found them intact they are stiff and brittle. The ones Dead nuts on carry's are pretty exact with of course different copy depending on application..
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 22, 2018, 06:26:19 PM
This tag that is wrapped around the axle tube is for a 67 GT350 4 speed .
That is exactly what I needed Bob!
Thanks for coming to the rescue.
Interesting subject. The discussion increases the possibilities.
Paper tags were/ are used on all rear axle assemblies. I just pulled an 8.8 from a 2002 Ford Ranger and there is a paper tag on it!
One comment regarding the BP detailing article , IMHO ( only) too much time/ care was used in reproducing the numbers painted and "crayoned" onto the housing. One has to remember this was an assembly line , NOT art class. "Some" were nicer looking than others and none were "perfect". Reasonable care was used during the builds but a concours judge was not present supervising the work ( so to speak) done "in the day". Exact duplication should be avoided.
Just My Personal Opinion.
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on January 04, 2019, 11:40:15 AM
Paper tags were/ are used on all rear axle assemblies. I just pulled an 8.8 from a 2002 Ford Ranger and there is a paper tag on it!
One comment regarding the BP detailing article , IMHO ( only) too much time/ care was used in reproducing the numbers painted and "crayoned" onto the housing. One has to remember this was an assembly line , NOT art class. "Some" were nicer looking than others and none were "perfect". Reasonable care was used during the builds but a concours judge was not present supervising the work ( so to speak) done "in the day". Exact duplication should be avoided.
Just My Personal Opinion.
Randy
+1
Quote from: gt350hr on January 04, 2019, 11:40:15 AM
..................... Exact duplication should be avoided.
+1 Be wary of copying other peoples markings or ones from another car but instead focus on what was originally found on your specific car and compare those to larger samples of commonly found markings for clarity and sometimes filling in the damaged markings you found on yours. So examples may have markings only found on that single example and we're trying to discourage "cookie cutter cars" especially when it comes to details like paint markings IMHO
I have a friend who worked at the Sterling axle plant . He contacted me through MM many years ago and asked how I figured out the markings on the rear axle assembly. I replied, I duplicate what I find during disassembly and document with pictures. He also explained the function of orange strap on the parking brake cable. There was a code book the Sterling assemblers used for quality control and identification. Different colors on marker pens for various shifts etc. There were red, green and white paper axle tags on tape roll (1st,2nd, 3rd shift)? No he has not found any lunch pail 981B tape rolls yet. I have figured out what many markings mean from the info supplied. I have not been granted permission to share and feel he should publish the article himself,which I believe is coming.
Randy G, I love your comment.That's the first time I have been praised for my handwriting. I know the customer quite well and he did not prefer I drag the axle assembly around the shop on the floor a few laps for a little Dearborn patina. Thanks again for the Blue Streaks.
Unfortunately I believe too much emphasis is put on paint codes and stickers etc. on many restorations. These final details do not make the restoration as some seem to believe. Believe me it took a lot more time to prep the parts and assemble the axle assembly than it did to scribble a few numbers. Paint codes and stickers do not make up for incorrect parts and average restoration workmanship. Does a car with no orange peel really deserve a paint OK stamp? Lets not loose perspective.
Bob Perkins SAAC Concours Head Judge
Bob ,
Your article was superb and I learned a few details from it. My comment was the result of looking at many '65-66 GT 350 axle housings and the variation in location and "handwriting styles" of the DSO marking on the back of the housing. Some said DSO , others said D.S.O. and then there were the differences in handwriting. I have seen them replicated with Markal paint sticks ( crayon like) , 1/2" wide paint brush , and stencils , looking very different than an original. The originals were 1/4" wide liquid paint markers ( white) done by hand a full of variations.
The conversation with the Sterling Plant worker backs up what I have "assumed" for many years. Differential assemblies were built ( like engines and transmissions as well) "by the book" and marked in specific areas with "universal codes" so any employee knew what the assembly was from a "distance". I have specific engine assembly "books" detailing how a particular engine ( '67 289 Trans Am) was to be assembles. I believe the codes ( like 982) were related to specific build books ( stapled pages) similar to the engine book I have. The axle plant ( again IMHO) had to be well disciplined/structured so there was no variation on a "run" of 50-100 (or more) axle assemblies. The information regarding paint codes sheds light on another assumption I had regarding the paint on the end of 31 spline axles as I have seen white , light blue and orange on the ends of those I have seen in the last 52 years. There is also a large variation in the yellow paint mark in the case webbing. Some had more than others and it was very "abstract" in it's application.
I share your belief that far too much emphasis is placed on stickers and paint marks.
Randy