Offered today is a set of the very first HiPo heads made for FE engines.
I checked the intake and exhaust ports, and compared them next to a C5ae F, med riser head.
Exactly the same.
Chambers dimensions are the same also.
These heads are like a set of Hi Riser heads in the chambers, both were FACTORY machined smooth.
I posted questions about these herein SAAC about a month or so ago to find out what they were.
First NASCAR and Drag racing heads, is basically what they are.
Quite rare, as was cost prohibitive for Ford to make and machine.
Not cut on or ever planed.
There are no numbers on the heads, somebody ground them off, had to have been done over 40 years ago,
as that is how long my buddy Cooper has had them.
Asking $625.00
John - What you seem to be discussing are 58- 59 heads. I have a pair of these with cloverleaf machined combustion chambers, Those should have had the numbers 575 cast into them. Pictures would tell the story, they have even smaller combustion chambers than the medium riser heads and will really wake up an anemic FE ;D
They're not hipo. They are high compression with small intake 2.03 and 1.56. The chanbers are too small for most FE applications as they produce almost 13:1 in a flat top pistoned 428. On Ebay they fetch about 3-400.00
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 25, 2019, 01:58:47 AM
They're not hipo. They are high compression with small intake 2.03 and 1.56. The chanbers are too small for most FE applications as they produce almost 13:1 in a flat top pistoned 428. On Ebay they fetch about 3-400.00
-Keith
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Keith,
I went first thing and pulled them up and put them on the bench, ex and Intake valves fit in an uncut c5ae _f head, valves drop right into these hipo heads and fit basically flush in both sets, chambers look exacting.
Chambers are factory machined in these hipo heads, what are specially prepped heads from Ford called, boat anchors?
With respect, Truly not sure what you are talking about?
I am horrible at moving pictures, if somebody helped, you guys could take a look.
But, somebody from the site here has requested pictures, I can send them by my picasa, so they may be sold.
Not for the price of a 390 GT heads though.
427 heaven, I think you are correct, but the chambers seem to be same depth and width in all directions ??
427 Eight barrel, please send me the link for the set on ebay if any, would appreciate it, not afraid to be proven wrong, happens to everybody.!!
Respectfully submitted,
John
This is a case where we are all correct. Those definitely are the true FIRST hipo heads the ones that started it all. They are very similar to MR heads big ports, small chambers, but very small valves. With a little bowl work, cut the heads for larger valves and seats you have a poor mans set of Medium riser heads, ;) They are not for everyone with super high compression, but for a few of us they are fantastic to wake up your sluggish FE. Bolting a pair of these on a 7.5 8.0 compression ratio Fe will make you feel like you have an extra engine under the hood. 60 years ago the engineers were just getting their feet wet on what makes a good running engine. 10 years later they hit the sweet spot with the COBRAS GT 40S SUPER SNAKE and the rest. They definitely sell for more than the average LO-PO heads on EPAY. Good luck on the sale and or purchase of these heads they are great runners if properly set up.
Sure sound like 352 HP heads. The reason the chambers are small was the displacement was small. 427 HR valves would not open into any bore ford used before 1963. HR-TP valves require a notch for clearance even in a 4.25 bore.
Cushman, they are likely 352 heads. CoAF heads are really listed as the first performance head. However, the chamber design is what many later race heads used.
The ports were the 2.34 tall, but the lack the ring in the intake port. They are a 2.03 X 1.56 valve head. Not to say someone didn't work on them at some juncture. They just don't have much value because of the size of the chamber. I think they were 59CC. I was running C2SE-C 406 tri power heads on my 428. The compression was about 12.5:1 with a 64CC chamber. They were NOS, I sold them because of the issue. Just not practical on street engine. The advent of multiple choices and the reasonable Edelbrock heads many have gone away from OE on all but numbers cars.
These are not even remotely like the early heads I have listed here, not even close.
I sent pics from my picasa to a member of SAAC last night, a 427 Medium riser head right next to it, in 5 pictured angles.
Unless there is an inside port with something that can not be seen, the 427 M & the 352 hipo heads I have here are identical.
Even slid the 427 M valves into the 352 hipo heads.
John
Isn't there a casting date on them?.. I don't understand what makes them so early and rare if they look like a stock MR head with numbers ground off? Why can't they be a normal MR head made in 1970? Hard to figure out this mystery w/o pics.
My guess would be if they don't have the clover combustion chambers that they are medium riser heads, and the best reason for ground off numbers would be to hide their numbers because they were not allowed in a certain race class at the time. Example..... Stock, Super Stock would not allow these to be used in a Mustang application. 40- 50 years ago tech would most likely let it slide , a possibility.
Quote from: cushmancomp on February 26, 2019, 10:02:00 AM
Hard to figure out this mystery w/o pics.
Are there core/Welsh plugs in the ends of the heads? If so, and without photos, I would presume ??? 1958 352's, as these early castings had the machined combustion chamber, and it does appear similar to the M.R.'s configuration, just somewhat smaller for the 352 cu. in. capacity.
Perhaps this is a little like an on-line forum version of..............."Pin-Tha-Tail-On-Tha-Donkey"! ::)
Scott.
John ,
I have to agree with Jay here. In reality there are well over 100 different FE heads that Ford made but not all of them made it to production. "The first" Hipo heads for the FE is as you see the subject of much speculation. It does sound like you have a medium riser head of some sort. While "ONE" was listed as a "production and service part" , the reality is there were several variations that didn't make it to production status. I know of at least ten different varieties of MR heads done as "SK" heads. These were "development heads" done to evaluate changes in valve pocket machining , porting and chamber machining by the change notes in the SK log book I have.
Without part numbers it is extremely difficult to tell exactly what you have. There "could" be hand stamped numbers on the ends of the heads too. Casting dates could be helpful if they have not been removed. "Medium riser" cylinder head development began in '64 by the race engine group as an alternative to the high riser as some felt the port was too big on them. Medium risers all had the machined combustion chambers like the late high risers and later tunnel ports. Cost was not a factor in their rarity. Anyone with $100+ could buy a medium riser head from his Ford dealer , MANY thousands were made.
Randy
I am not good at trying to cut and paste pictures.
Anyone that is interested in these factory high performance heads, just email me by normal email address.
I can send pictures by my picasa.
Sorry guys, just screw up trying to attach to sites.
Respectfully submitted,
John
motorcarinvestments@gmail.com
Side by side pictures of the C5 -F 427 MR heads as comparisons to these 352 hipo's are available
Might it be of some value if these hi-po what ever heads were cc'd? Then the chamber volume could be checked to see if it does or doesn't match any other FE head.
Quote from: pbf777 on February 26, 2019, 12:27:25 PM
Are there core/Welsh plugs in the ends of the heads?
Scott.
That is, core plugs of approximately 1-1/4" diameter, on the exposed external end surfaces visible on cylinder head, even as mounted on the block w/ intake, exhaust & valve covers installed, as these items are affixed on the surface planes not in question?
Scott.
gt350 & 427 Heaven,
Thanks for trying to help me out to identify the heads.
My fault for the confusion
I am enlisting myself into a computer course, just to learn snap chats, moving pictures from my Picasa, clouds etc.
Just have a hard time with computers, mine is an out of date model>> just like me,
I appreciated the help posting pictures from several guys herein the site for quite the while, and the Last Paxton pictures that I hope helped numerous people with correct answer's.,
So when I post anymore parts, they will have pictures.
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With that said;
Besides asking questions herein the forums a few months back, I also went on line to FE sites and head sites to try and identify the 352 hipo heads.
Did my homework and came up with early 352 hipo heads and Hi Riser heads being the only factory machined chambers.
Well that is not true, and that is what started my confusion.
That is why I stated they looked just like 427 MR heads, I compared them to other 427 head MR heads we have here.
Come to find out, they are actually virgin 427 Medium riser heads with the numbers ground off, my mistake, and I own up to it.
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I did something I know better not to do as a Member of the Society Of Automotive Historians, and that is jump to a conclusion, when more research in identification was needed.
Revs Institute and other major noted Archival and historical sites I confer and exchange with >>would crucify me>> it is non acceptable, so I apologize again to the community.
Nobody stepped up to purchase them at my asking price, so I have removed them from the market place. I will have to re-evaluate the price with the owner now .
I will be listing some other 427 MR heads with original numbers in the future, they have been cut on, BUT they have there numbers.
That is >>> after I get educated in the new pictures files, storage clouds and whatever else, the 427 MR heads will be pictured in an ad for sale herein SAAC.
Respectfully submitted,
John
John
Glad you figured out what I suspected all along. To add to your knowledge base there are two other "production" heads that had/have fully machined combustion chambers besides the 352 HP , and 427 HR. The 427 Medium riser ( like you have ) and the 427 Tunnel Port. Not too surprisingly the 427 heads al use the same machining program for the chamber and are listed at 88cc volume( nominal) . Your heads with the numbers ground off are still valuable to someone looking for a medium riser head just not for someone hung up on casting numbers. Do check the ends of the heads for any hand stamped numbers starting with SK or XE as those would be prototype or engineering heads that "could " be different that regular production heads.
Randy
Randy,
Thanks for your help buddy !!!
I went and checked all of the MR heads
Numbers on two, for keeping track of FE stamped numbers
One has # 5607 stamped into its end
One head has C9 0 with no other numbers, but has two stamped dots.
The stamped numbers are about the size of stamped 69 shelby serial #, struck me as weird
Other heads have nothing.
I di know about the SK or Xe, numbers, I have seen it once, that was on the
289 4 bolt main racing engine that I sold to the Indy Museum about 30 years ago.
Thanks again Randy,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 27, 2019, 08:39:30 AM
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With that said;
Besides asking questions herein the forums a few months back, I also went on line to FE sites and head sites to try and identify the 352 hipo heads.
Did my homework and came up with early 352 hipo heads and Hi Riser heads being the only factory machined chambers.
Respectfully submitted,
John
Not to flog a dead horse, but in an effort to be historically accurate (at least my version ::)); in 1958 the initial production of the FE engine in both 332 & 352 cu. in. configurations were produced with the fully machined combustion cambers of perhaps 58 - 62cc volume, and in appearance is very similar (but smaller, yes) to the later FE's of 427 cu. in. capacity as mention above and by Randy (H.R., M.R. & T.P), an example casting number would be EDC-6090-E, and will also exhibit the core plugs, not present in later castings as previously mentioned. This process was discontinued early in the production cycle and the remaining units' chambers were of as cast, of a larger volume, and noticeably different shape, more conventional as shared with later FE's (360, 390, 406, 410, 427L.R. & 428's). From a vocabulary standpoint, I believe "Interceptor Special" & perhaps "Thunderbird Special" was used to describe the performance brand, at as much as 300 H.P..
The "352HP" (@360 H.P.) was a product of 1960 (particularly notable with the Starliner) with the cylinder head casting number of COAE-6090-D as I recall, which have the unique chamber shape as pictured above by "1967 eight barrel"; but note that these chambers are of as cast production, not fully machined as the others described.
As an additional note: measure the valve spacing, as it is different in the 427 examples verses others and any machine work to change such spacing would be obvious. ;)
There, correct me if I'm wrong (and that wouldn't be a first ::)), and I kept it as short as I possibly could, as I realize I may be bending the ear of some who really don't care! :'(
Scott.
John,
The numbers you mention are likely machine shop added numbers. There are at least 10 different SK numbered 427 medium riser head "alteration" numbers listed and a few more than that for the Tunnel port head. Since the "base" casting was not changed dramatically , the SK number would have been hand stamped on the end of the head to note the changes. There were "some" special development heads that had the SK number where a normal part number would be . IIRC one was SK 37369 and was a medium riser design that was only legal for NHRA Super Stock competition. I bought a pair of these from my friend Kerry Wortman.
Randy
PS , Thanks to Scott. "I" feel it is important to put all of the information out there as many "lesser informed" journalists have made mistakes ( not intentionally) in their books that have led to much confusion. Some of us have studied Fords specifically ( yes it's an addiction) all of our "automotive" lives. In my case 50+ years of being "afflicted".
I agree with both of you guys.
That is what got me in trouble in the first place. Believing what I was reading.
What a person reads, is not always true.
The further input you guys are adding, will allow many to accurately identify FE heads.
I now know how to identify the rarer FE heads
John
Awsome info from Randy and Scott who know as much as anybody about this stuff. 1 small correction on valve spacing. MR HR TP have a wider valve spacing and I think LR is the standard spacing
Quote from: cushmancomp on February 27, 2019, 03:48:12 PM
1 small correction on valve spacing. MR HR TP have a wider valve spacing and I think LR is the standard spacing
Agreed, and in keeping my story short, I perhaps failed in my communication, as my intention was only meant to be relevant in an attempt to differentiate between the cylinder heads with the machined combustion chambers.
But, it ain't all bad, at least somebody is actually applying some thought to the yarn(s) that I posted ::)
P.S. Hey Jay, if your in Orlando feel free to stop in again if you wish, don't worry about it if I wander off momentarily addressing business or something (always lots of fires).
Scott.
Will do Scott. Always fun seeing everybody elses stuff. My kid wants to come by sometime. He was just down racing at New Smyrna for speedweeks.
When I went to Orlando many times , Powered by Ford was THE place I went . I never went to DisneyWorld.
Randy
Thanks Randy, I didn't realize I was that entertaining, but it's nice to know Mickey Mouse & Goofy comes to mind thou. ::)
Scott.
Scott ,
I guess I prefer real stuff to fantasy.
Randy