Hello All,
I am new to posting here but I have been a casual lurker for quite some time now. My main objective of a post here is to revive a famous, (or infamous depending on your viewpoint) topic. The search for Jim Morrison's 1967 GT500, the "Blue Lady".
I am not a collector but a Shelby and Doors fan. The information I am posting is already out there because I found it on Newspapers.com, and I am not the first to find it. I wish to update the ongoing narrative about this car, that it was last seen in 1969 and "known to be" destroyed.
The 1967 GT500 Shelby license plate VRD 389 was posted for sale in 1970 and as late as October 1971 in the Los Angeles Times. At a place called Ray's Hi-Performance Center in Inglewood, CA. To me, it appears the car had 14k then 15k miles on it as posted. So, someone was driving it. It states in one add that it "has been stored" and was listed for $2500 then $2350. I feel that Morrison's driving history with this car dictated that someone of influence, urged that the car be put up for sale. Possibly his eventual move to Paris in April 1971 prompted this sale.
This to me is convincing proof that his car existed after 1969 and even after his death in July 1971. Now we moved up the mystery up 2 years and I believe the car still exists out there somewhere. Let us start off the discussions based on these adds.
Fun Mystery. But I am a huge Doors fan. Cue the non-fans......
Show room condition seems like it would be a stretch.
First let me welcome you to the SAAC boards and congratulate you on your first post.
I see we share some of the same interests the Doors, Jimmy and Shelbys.
Truly very interesting articles you provide.
Dont agree that the car is still with us , but I believe as you mentioned that possibly someone of influence or great influence would want to recreate or resuscitate this valuable Shelby.
Thank you! I am confident that there are enough experts on this forum that would call out a recreation posing as the original.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 07:00:01 PM
First let me welcome you to the SAAC boards and congratulate you on your first post.
I see we share some of the same interests the Doors, Jimmy and Shelbys.
Truly very interesting articles you provide.
Dont agree that the car is still with us , but I believe as you mentioned that possibly someone of influence or great influence would want to recreate or resuscitate this valuable Shelby.
Interesting, for sure. What happens to the plate numbers after a car is destroyed? Could they be re-issued?
Seems unlikely they would go on another 1967 GT500
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 15, 2019, 08:04:59 PM
Interesting, for sure. What happens to the plate numbers after a car is destroyed? Could they be re-issued?
Seems unlikely they would go on another 1967 GT500
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Think this was a question about the license plates...
I think the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests the possibility it's still out there.
Every other thing Doors or Jim Morrison related seems to end up on eBay.
I remember even seeing items from the house he lived in off of Laurel Canyon. Lights, switch covers Etc.
Nothing from the Blue Lady though, save for the copy of the registration. From what I recall that was obtained from Jim's friend Paul Ferrera, went to a Doors memorabilia collector who offered it on eBay. The rest is history.
A little known fact about Paul Ferrera. He was driving the Shelby in the scene when Jim was hitchhiking in his movie HWY.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on March 15, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Think this was a question about the license plates...
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 15, 2019, 08:54:16 PM
I think the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests the possibility it's still out there.
Every other thing Doors or Jim Morrison related seems to end up on eBay.
I remember even seeing items from the house he lived in off of Laurel Canyon. Lights, switch covers Etc.
Nothing from the Blue Lady though, save for the copy of the registration. From what I recall that was obtained from Jim's friend Paul Ferrera, went to a Doors memorabilia collector who offered it on eBay. The rest is history.
A little known fact about Paul Ferrera. He was driving the Shelby in the scene when Jim was hitchhiking in his movie HWY.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on March 15, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Think this was a question about the license plates...
You don't know if some parts from the car haven't already been sold . They may have been sold but not attributed to the singer because the seller was not aware for whatever reason. Parted out cars get their parts sold all the time and during the process no thought is given to the prior owner. Just saying that may be a explanation why the name hasn't come up associated with the sold parts.Just a possibility.
kinda sorta agree with your statement, but will take the liberty to rephrase ;
the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests that it is gone from the face of the earth .
but that does not rule out the creativity of some to reconstruct and resurrect...if and when it comes back to life, not even the most astute people / judges will be able to distinguish that it's not the real one...
rise lazarus, rise...
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 15, 2019, 08:54:16 PM
I think the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests the possibility it's still out there.
Every other thing Doors or Jim Morrison related seems to end up on eBay.
I remember even seeing items from the house he lived in off of Laurel Canyon. Lights, switch covers Etc.
Nothing from the Blue Lady though, save for the copy of the registration. From what I recall that was obtained from Jim's friend Paul Ferrera, went to a Doors memorabilia collector who offered it on eBay. The rest is history.
A little known fact about Paul Ferrera. He was driving the Shelby in the scene when Jim was hitchhiking in his movie HWY.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on March 15, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Think this was a question about the license plates...
I would like to add a little to this thread... My car was taken off the road the same time Morrisons car was approx. 1971, My car is a nightmist blue car as well, number 1189. For a time I thought I had Jims car before the number came to light. Anyway the pictures that keep appearing, the lighter blue crushed car appears to be Acapulco blue, not Nightmist blue. 48 years later... mine is coming back to life. I hope this one does as well, but back in the day it was just a used up Hot Rod :-\
I think it's very interesting about the one common denominator about this car. Totaled, crushed, gone in 1969.
If I quote a well-known tautology, "We don't know what we don't know". If I apply this to the Shelby and the stories told.
The people telling the 1969 story as fact, were not aware that one day we would be able to search the internet to find a for-sale adds from 1970 and 1971.
This same thing applies now, and its totally plausible that the car was parted out over the years. But I don't think so.
I believe there was a conscious effort of misinformation to dissuade people from searching for the car.
Jim's former brother-in-law told the "went missing from LAX story. Jim's former bodyguard said in an article "it did not survive by any means". It was crushed in 1969.
"We don't know what we don't know" Yet....
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 09:15:11 PM
kinda sorta agree with your statement, but will take the liberty to rephrase ;
the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests that it is gone from the face of the earth .
but that does not rule out the creativity of some to reconstruct and resurrect...if and when it comes back to life, not even the most astute people / judges will be able to distinguish that it's not the real one...
rise lazarus, rise...
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 15, 2019, 08:54:16 PM
I think the lack of items from this car showing up for sale suggests the possibility it's still out there.
Every other thing Doors or Jim Morrison related seems to end up on eBay.
I remember even seeing items from the house he lived in off of Laurel Canyon. Lights, switch covers Etc.
Nothing from the Blue Lady though, save for the copy of the registration. From what I recall that was obtained from Jim's friend Paul Ferrera, went to a Doors memorabilia collector who offered it on eBay. The rest is history.
A little known fact about Paul Ferrera. He was driving the Shelby in the scene when Jim was hitchhiking in his movie HWY.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on March 15, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
naaaa, they are usually sold on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163590115308?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Think this was a question about the license plates...
The biggest questions:
1) Is Jim Morrison still alive?
2) If so, is "Waiting For 939" Jim Morrison?
I believe Jim was spotted coming out of a Walmart with Elvis a few months back.. I need to check my back issues of "The National Enquirer". 8)
+1
Quote from: Don Johnston on March 15, 2019, 10:12:07 PM
I believe Jim was spotted coming out of a Walmart with Elvis a few months back.. I need to check my back issues of "The National Enquirer". 8)
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
QuoteAnyway the pictures that keep appearing, the lighter blue crushed car appears to be Acapulco blue, not Nightmist blue.
The serial of the Acapulco Blue 1968 GT500 convertible is known. This has been discussed on the forum several times.
gone but painstakingly being recreated....
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Same with Bullit Mustang and look at what that car has become.
I have a true story about that car which emphasizes you just never know. I was a manager at a well-known Speed Shop in Northern Jersey. We had a part-time high school kid who worked after-school and mentioned that he knew who had the car, and described that it still had signs of camera mounts etc. We pushed and pushed this kid to lead us to view this iconic movie car. Well, it never happened and was dismissed and forgotten about.
Later when the car was unveiled by the son of the owner, and he mentioned his dad had passed. I found his obituary online and I was surprised to read and realize, that the high-school kid was the nephew of the man who had the Bullit Mustang all of those years in Madison NJ. Less than 5 miles from the speed shop.
The nephew probably mentioned to his uncle that he worked with some fellow gearheads that wanted to see the car.
Obviously, we can all imagine how that conversation went.
So, information comes and goes and is forgotten.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Great post and detective work. As a fan of Shelby and the Doors I think it would be awesome to see the Blue Lady found and the mystery of her disappearance solved. The gap in time from 1971 to 2019 would seem to support the demise conclusion, however it doesn't close the door completely. I will keep hoping for this beauty to resurface someday.
Is that known information or a belief? They would need parts like in the picture below right?
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 16, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
gone but painstakingly being recreated....
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 16, 2019, 09:13:09 AM
Same with Bullit Mustang and look at what that car has become.
I have a true story about that car which emphasizes you just never know. I was a manager at a well-known Speed Shop in Northern Jersey. We had a part-time high school kid who worked after-school and mentioned that he knew who had the car, and described that it still had signs of camera mounts etc. We pushed and pushed this kid to lead us to view this iconic movie car. Well, it never happened and was dismissed and forgotten about.
Later when the car was unveiled by the son of the owner, and he mentioned his dad had passed. I found his obituary online and I was surprised to read and realize, that the high-school kid was the nephew of the man who had the Bullit Mustang all of those years in Madison NJ. Less than 5 miles from the speed shop.
The nephew probably mentioned to his uncle that he worked with some fellow gearheads that wanted to see the car.
Obviously, we can all imagine how that conversation went.
So, information comes and goes and is forgotten.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
The specific cars for me were not the Bullet cars. My list is of cars all known to be within 2 miles of me. I'm probably forgetting a few but 1) street '65 GT350 in someone's back yard with a blown engine 2) 65 R model crashed into a bridge abutment on Sprain Parkway driving home from Larsen Ford 3) maroon 427 Cobra with Maine license plates (near Yonkers Raceway) 4) dark blue 67 GT500 with no side stripes in New Rochelle 5) abandoned 68 GT350 convertible 6) 289 Cobra Dragonsnake with 428 installed (somewhere in the Bronx) 7) Detomaso Mangusta (White Plains) 8) Black 67 GT500 in storage shed in New City. 9) two 427 Cobra theft recoveries at Blood Brothers in Mamaroneck
I could go on but what happens is that the guys who actually knew didn't want to share the specifics until AFTER they were "discovered". Discovered my butt...sober up and try and remember where you saw them.
I remember Inglese's 289 Cobra coming out of a private house residential neighborhood in BROOKLYN and "recently" a Pantera picking up a kid at Iona Prep. Asking one of my sons who was the kid and they didn't know him.
I just asked one of them if they know of any cars stashed away locally and they said, yea, yours! I give up but the reality is they are still out there and someone will come across them just walking in the woods like you finding a spearhead stuck in the scull of a Mastodon's? That happens all the time...right?
I figure that it's fate that has "you" find them. If it's meant to be...
I actually love the idea that there is a certain sense of uncertainty surrounding this car. It piques my interest that there could be a possibility that this car is still "with us".... Jim too...lol!
Same. When you see for-sale adds 1-2 years after it was purported by insiders to have already be long gone. I think what is not being said is what really interests me.
Jim however, I think we can accept that he is not coming back.
Quote from: 69bosssvt on March 16, 2019, 11:10:55 AM
I actually love the idea that there is a certain sense of uncertainty surrounding this car. It piques my interest that there could be a possibility that this car is still "with us".... Jim too...lol!
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Or the 2nd Bullitt car found in Mexico...
I actually expect it to be around and registered under the Ford number some where. That being not in
California because of the license plate separation. The stories on how that car was wrecked several times makes me suspect it had a new front clip and the Ford numbers gone?
I considered that especially when I saw a car on this forum that had a replacement VIN stamped in the door frame by the DMV. I don't know the extent of where VINs are placed by the Ford factory. I know with Chevys there are several locations of the "hidden VINs" and those have debunked some high dollar Camaro's. Sadly, you are never going to prevent the scammers from doing their dirty work. That's why a paper trail is so important with any collectible.
Possible previous damage can be a telltale sign on identifying this car?
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 16, 2019, 12:45:53 PMe
I actually expect it to be around and registered under the Ford number some where. That being not in
California because of the license plate separation. The stories on how that car was wrecked several times makes me suspect it had a new front clip and the Ford numbers gone?
An old-time drag racer told me one time. When some people call a car "clean" it means they just washed the windows.
That Showroom condition quote in the add made me wonder too. Marketing 101.
Quote from: Show room condition seems like it would be a stretch.
/quote]
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 16, 2019, 01:06:18 PM
I considered that especially when I saw a car on this forum that had a replacement VIN stamped in the door frame by the DMV. I don't know the extent of where VINs are placed by the Ford factory. I know with Chevys there are several locations of the "hidden VINs" and those have debunked some high dollar Camaro's. Sadly, you are never going to prevent the scammers from doing their dirty work. That's why a paper trail is so important with any collectible.
Possible previous damage can be a telltale sign on identifying this car?
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 16, 2019, 12:45:53 PMe
I actually expect it to be around and registered under the Ford number some where. That being not in
California because of the license plate separation. The stories on how that car was wrecked several times makes me suspect it had a new front clip and the Ford numbers gone?
As far as I know, the '67s "secret" location is under the fender lip on the passenger side. There was a "Ford publication" for Police use that showed the location of the numbers.
I seem to remember that there is one location that requires a hole to be drilled in one of the rear frame rails from within the trunk, i.e., from the top but I don't think that applied to the 67 and 68 Mustangs? I don't remember which car model though.
I have both a 67 and a 68, and can say that if there is a chassis number stamped into the rear frame rail that it must be a very light stamping because it has no "transparancy" like the front numbers do under the stampings.
I think that the engine and transmission stampings were considered at the time to be "secret" stampings and in so many cases are not complete numbers.
Probably the biggest reason that the Shelby serial number system got revised in '68 was because of this issue of being able to register the cars from a bill of sale and use the Ford numbers, not the Shelby serial number and it would come up as a "clean" number.
By the '69 model year the system was completely revised and there was only one chassis number which identified the car as a Shelby model.
Over the years there certainly has been much more then one Shelby disappear in plain sight under it's Ford number and likely they are still out there. Some known. Some unknown.
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
The registration...
With my history of ownership of the registration I still get calls and emails from people saying they know where the vehicle is.
Awhile back a woman told me it's in a secluded garage covered up and the owner doesn't want to be bothered.
Does anyone recall Mustang Monthly claiming that one of their subscribers purchased the car and it's being restored at a KC body shop?
In their article they named the body shop and within 10 minutes I called the place.
I asked the guy that answered the phone if he could tell me the VIN of the 67 GT 500 that they're restoring.....
It was the only Shelby at the shop.
And it wasn't # 939.
Bret
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on March 16, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
The registration...
With my history of ownership of the registration I still get calls and emails from people saying they know where the vehicle is.
Awhile back a woman told me it's in a secluded garage covered up and the owner doesn't want to be bothered.
Does anyone recall Mustang Monthly claiming that one of their subscribers purchased the car and it's being restored at a KC body shop?
In their article they named the body shop and within 10 minutes I called the place.
I asked the guy that answered the phone if he could tell me the VIN of the 67 GT 500 that they're restoring.....
It was the only Shelby at the shop.
And it wasn't # 939.
Bret
You never know if it might turn up. We thought little red was lost to the crusher and it just turned up.
You're right Bob...
Actually over the last month I pulled (3) 67 Shelby's out of barns ...
Nothing in the registry since day #1...
You just never know...
Bret
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Even further off topic, I discovered one of my professional colleagues lived almost his entire life in Toronto and absolutely no idea who Geddy, Neil and Alex were.
:P
His own father was also unaware of much about his son. Watch the video on Youtube of Admiral Morrison's interview about his son. It seems he took little interest in his son's career. Also, In spite of what has been written about Jim and his "estranged" family, he supposedly kept in contact with his siblings all through his days with The Doors. That man has a valuable memento with that George Washington High School yearbook. Especially if Jim signed it.
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 16, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
gone but painstakingly being recreated....
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Tony: I am not letting your remark go by without a reply/rather, a correction. Little Red is not gone. It is found; it clearly exists, without any question whatsoever. It is not being recreated; it is being restored!!
howdy anonymous 68blk500c
reference was not made on the red car, but on jimmys crushed non existing vehicle
Quote from: 68blk500c on March 16, 2019, 09:10:38 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 16, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
gone but painstakingly being recreated....
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 16, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Personally, I would remain open to the idea.
If you think its been crushed, I have two words for you "little red" 🦄
Disguised as a 1968 some said, others said no way....
Tony: I am not letting your remark go by without a reply/rather, a correction. Little Red is not gone. It is found; it clearly exists, without any question whatsoever. It is not being recreated; it is being restored!!
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 16, 2019, 06:20:00 PM
His own father was also unaware of much about his son. Watch the video on Youtube of Admiral Morrison's interview about his son. It seems he took little interest in his son's career. Also, In spite of what has been written about Jim and his "estranged" family, he supposedly kept in contact with his siblings all through his days with The Doors. That man has a valuable memento with that George Washington High School yearbook. Especially if Jim signed it.
Unfortunately the yearbook did not have Morrison's sig.
- Phillip
If #939 does exist today, plenty have probably seen it tucked away, maybe even tried to buy it without even knowing the Shelby #,only to be told it's not for sale. They move on and keep it to themselves.
In fact it may not be that hidden, just not for sale and no info given.
Such was #2020's case, sat for 35years at Donny's shop,(South St, Long Beach CA) and plenty probably tried to buy it and didn't even get as far as the Shelby #.
Nightmist blue and parchment trim don't mean jack all.
I did not even know 2020 was a factory black car until i had bought her..........
BTW those two photos are nearly twenty years apart, 1988 and 2007
Donny owned 2020 for 42yrs and she sat in the one spot from 1977 till 2012 when i got her.
Quote from: 2112 on March 16, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Even further off topic, I discovered one of my professional colleagues lived almost his entire life in Toronto and absolutely no idea who Geddy, Neil and Alex were.
:P
They all raced for GM back in the day??? ;D
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 17, 2019, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: 2112 on March 16, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Even further off topic, I discovered one of my professional colleagues lived almost his entire life in Toronto and absolutely no idea who Geddy, Neil and Alex were.
:P
They all raced for GM back in the day??? ;D
NO- but at least they sang about one fine RED BARCHETTA and had the money back then to actually own one. ;)
Quote from: 2112 on March 16, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Even further off topic, I discovered one of my professional colleagues lived almost his entire life in Toronto and absolutely no idea who Geddy, Neil and Alex were.
:P
Who? :o
Rush
Quote from: 2112 on March 16, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: propayne on March 16, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Not completely on-topic but here is my Jim Morrison story.
I lived and worked for several years in Alexandria Virginia, just a few blocks from George Washington High School, the high school that Jim Morrison attended.
My wife and I were living in a duplex which was built in the '40s. We owned one side and on the other was an older gentlemen who we got along with well and who lived in his side all alone - his wife having long since passed away and their only son also long gone with a family of his own.
The time finally came that the old gentlemen needed to be moved into a nursing facility and the son came to facilitate that. I offered to lend a hand and while loading stuff up I noticed the son's George Washington yearbooks. I asked if I could have a look and searched immediately for Jim Morrison. Found him in what is now a well publicized class photo and pointed it out to the son. He said he remembered Jim well (not a very big school). I was amazed to find out that the son was not at all familiar with The Doors and Jim Morrison's subsequent fame and fortune and early demise :P
- Phillip
Even further off topic, I discovered one of my professional colleagues lived almost his entire life in Toronto and absolutely no idea who Geddy, Neil and Alex were.
:P
Remember the story of some MYSTERY woman claiming to know the whereabouts of SAID car, and made a phone call to someone, gave some info on it, then quickly hung up. I believe I spoke to that woman and she thought she knew some things, but she was a by product from that era, and partied her entire life which took its toll on her health. I feel she has passed away given her health issues, and the time that has passed. She wasn't nuts just a little foggy about some details, and that car has been accounted for. Under the cover of darkness it was pulled out of storage and the new owner hauled it away for a new lease on life. Where it went is any ones guess, but it was saved. :)
Missed this one.
No dont believe so, this car has been being worked on for years.
Acquiring the proper year and model, making sure all the I are doted and Ts are crossed properly. This is not something that they started work on a year ago , five years ago. It's been worked on for years. This Jimmy's car has been marinating, aged and massaged until its reveal. The person who has been doing it is also an expert. That is why when it is found no questions will be raised. Years of work, dotting the i and crossing the t...
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 15, 2019, 07:18:56 PM
Thank you! I am confident that there are enough experts on this forum that would call out a recreation posing as the original.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 07:00:01 PM
IF it's real, just wheel it out as found with all the warts. So far, it's just like the tale of the 'Headless Horseman". Just somewhat of an enhanced "Fairy Tale".
Michael knows I'm being a wise ass. You couldn't have grown up in the late '70s early '80s and not have known RUSH.
RUSH 🤟🏼
To be honest, it would not surprise me if this happened. Then it becomes important to have a good paper trail to go with it. Sure there are countless ways to do this, but this car will be scrutinized to no end. I always maintain the truth always comes out. Then we'll see if the Morrison/Courson heirs come after it.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 17, 2019, 10:53:15 AM
Missed this one.
No dont believe so, this car has been being worked on for years.
Acquiring the proper year and model, making sure all the I are doted and Ts are crossed properly. This is not something that they started work on a year ago , five years ago. It's been worked on for years. This Jimmy's car has been marinating, aged and massaged until its reveal. The person who has been doing it is also an expert. That is why when it is found no questions will be raised. Years of work, dotting the i and crossing the t...
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 15, 2019, 07:18:56 PM
Thank you! I am confident that there are enough experts on this forum that would call out a recreation posing as the original.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 15, 2019, 07:00:01 PM
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 17, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
Michael knows I'm being a wise ass. You couldn't have grown up in the late '70s early '80s and not have known RUSH.
I know who Rush is. I choose to ignore it. Getty Lee, turns my stomach the wrong way but I don't legislate against taste or as it were, bad taste. Rush simply put, sucks.
This will happen, dont be surprised.
As stated before , this project has been in the works for years.
Not only Mustang / Shelby experts, but many other experts in different non automotive fields are involved. The duplicating and aging the paper work for your paper trail as you mentioned has more than likely been done. You will have witnesses available to testify its validity and existence. This is a major production.
The vehicle may come out as a derelict rebuildable or driveable with patina. Again years in the making.
Once again all the i will be dotted and all the Ts will be crossed...
Got to go, happy St Patty's day to all !
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
To be honest, it would not surprise me if this happened. Then it becomes important to have a good paper trail to go with it. Sure there are countless ways to do this, but this car will be scrutinized to no end. I always maintain the truth always comes out. Then we'll see if the Morrison/Courson heirs come after it.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 17, 2019, 10:53:15 AM
[/quote]
[/quote]
Never say never on the original car existing....cars disappear...My own 67 was invisible for 20 years...No DMV,no insurance,nothing...Doesn't mean the car didn't exist...If someone wants to be "low key"it's not hard..food for thought...
;)
:P
:-X
NOW WHY WOULD ANYONE HIDE AWAY A 67 500 :) :D ;D ;)
The Ray's High Performance Center ad is quite interesting. Obviously the Inglewood, West Century address is not to far away (within LA) from the earlier 901 Sepulveda , El Segundo address of Ray Wolffs shop. Could this be Ray Wolffs repair garage or a subcontracted garage later in that 70 period? Or is the owner of Rays HP center known as another Ray?
There is some similarity to Jim Langes Ray Wolff 68 racer being clipped with a 67 Shelby front clip from #2481.
Could be they used crash cars and their front or rear to build another car. Of course the "showroom condition" in the first ad in post #1 speaks against it.
Just saying to trigger another idea that either the front or rear of #939 after the crash was saved for something new.
Anything known about the other 67 GT500 with a licence plate JEK616?
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 17, 2019, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 17, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
Michael knows I'm being a wise ass. You couldn't have grown up in the late '70s early '80s and not have known RUSH.
I know who Rush is. I choose to ignore it. Getty Lee, turns my stomach the wrong way but I don't legislate against taste or as it were, bad taste. Rush simply put, sucks.
Saying they "suck" is an ignorant statement.
You are not obviously a musician and do not play an instrument. If you did, you would at least have respect for the amount of musical talent they have. That is why that picture I posted above exists. True musicians know their talent and the level of difficulty it takes to play like them, and most cannot.
You cannot say they "suck". You do not prefer them and you do not like their music. Geddy can sing, play bass, and play keyboards (with his feet) all at the same time. Alex is one of the most technical virtuoso guitarists ever. Neil Peart is regarded as one of the top 3 drummers of all time. A lot of people do not like Geddy's voice. That is why there are so many choices in music, cars....life. It's like saying an L-88 Corvette sucks. They do not suck, you just prefer Shelbys.
Back to the topic. I'm assuming that the car does not exist any longer, but I agree with Pete, two words..."Lil Red".
When 1690 was found after 25 years of storage. It went straight from 2nd place Concours at SAAC-6 to this.
Thank you! This this is the kind of idea dialog I was hoping to spark with my initial post. How great would it be to solve a long-standing mystery on the SAAC forum, or is that idea too nieve?
I have not heard anything definitive as to who Ray is. I've tried to search the phone number in online directories and have come up empty. Possibly I have not hit the right one yet, who knows.
I learned about the whole newspapers.com thing because of great guy on another forum. If someone had a car which had California history (plates) he was able to search the license plate, because they required it in adds in CA. Some unknown owner history was discovered this way.
Quote from: TransamEd on March 17, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
The Ray's High Performance Center ad is quite interesting. Obviously the Inglewood, West Century address is not to far away (within LA) from the earlier 901 Sepulveda , El Segundo address of Ray Wolffs shop. Could this be Ray Wolffs repair garage or a subcontracted garage later in that 70 period? Or is the owner of Rays HP center known as another Ray?
There is some similarity to Jim Langes Ray Wolff 68 racer being clipped with a 67 Shelby front clip from #2481.
Could be they used crash cars and their front or rear to build another car. Of course the "showroom condition" in the first ad in post #1 speaks against it.
Just saying to trigger another idea that either the front or rear of #939 after the crash was saved for something new.
Anything known about the other 67 GT500 with a licence plate JEK616?
I am another vote that Rush is not a good band, if that is musical talent then, WOW. His giddy singing, and the drummer's rifts really are nothing except small change ups. Being"tight" does not make good music. I have a few records in my collection, I do have 2 records that I just have as "collector" records, in case someone what's to hear that... Rush is one and the other is LOL Journey. Anyway, I can make my Shelby look like it has been in the garage for years if I carefully place items all over it also. LOL....Love the stories and pictures.
Quote from: 1690 on March 17, 2019, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 17, 2019, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 17, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
Michael knows I'm being a wise ass. You couldn't have grown up in the late '70s early '80s and not have known RUSH.
I know who Rush is. I choose to ignore it. Getty Lee, turns my stomach the wrong way but I don't legislate against taste or as it were, bad taste. Rush simply put, sucks.
Saying they "suck" is an ignorant statement.
You are not obviously a musician and do not play an instrument. If you did, you would at least have respect for the amount of musical talent they have. That is why that picture I posted above exists. True musicians know their talent and the level of difficulty it takes to play like them, and most cannot.
You cannot say they "suck". You do not prefer them and you do not like their music. Geddy can sing, play bass, and play keyboards (with his feet) all at the same time. Alex is one of the most technical virtuoso guitarists ever. Neil Peart is regarded as one of the top 3 drummers of all time. A lot of people do not like Geddy's voice. That is why there are so many choices in music, cars....life. It's like saying an L-88 Corvette sucks. They do not suck, you just prefer Shelbys.
Back to the topic. I'm assuming that the car does not exist any longer, but I agree with Pete, two words..."Lil Red".
🤔......😎
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 03:41:18 PM
Thank you! This this is the kind of idea dialog I was hoping to spark with my initial post. How great would it be to solve a long-standing mystery on the SAAC forum, or is that idea too nieve?
I have not heard anything definitive as to who Ray is. I've tried to search the phone number in online directories and have come up empty. Possibly I have not hit the right one yet, who knows.
I learned about the whole newspapers.com thing because of great guy on another forum. If someone had a car which had California history (plates) he was able to search the license plate, because they required it in adds in CA. Some unknown owner history was discovered this way.
How do you search ads? I would have thought they were data in an image. Are the transcribed so you can google them?
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 17, 2019, 11:52:18 AM
This will happen, dont be surprised.
As stated before , this project has been in the works for years.
Not only Mustang / Shelby experts, but many other experts in different non automotive fields are involved. The duplicating and aging the paper work for your paper trail as you mentioned has more than likely been done. You will have witnesses available to testify its validity and existence. This is a major production.
The vehicle may come out as a derelict rebuildable or driveable with patina. Again years in the making.
Once again all the i will be dotted and all the Ts will be crossed...
Got to go, happy St Patty's day to all !
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
To be honest, it would not surprise me if this happened. Then it becomes important to have a good paper trail to go with it. Sure there are countless ways to do this, but this car will be scrutinized to no end. I always maintain the truth always comes out. Then we'll see if the Morrison/Courson heirs come after it.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/just-a-second-1968-chevrolet-camaro-z-28/
Quote from: 1690 on March 17, 2019, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 17, 2019, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 17, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
Michael knows I'm being a wise ass. You couldn't have grown up in the late '70s early '80s and not have known RUSH.
I know who Rush is. I choose to ignore it. Getty Lee, turns my stomach the wrong way but I don't legislate against taste or as it were, bad taste. Rush simply put, sucks.
Saying they "suck" is an ignorant statement.
You are not obviously a musician and do not play an instrument. If you did, you would at least have respect for the amount of musical talent they have. That is why that picture I posted above exists. True musicians know their talent and the level of difficulty it takes to play like them, and most cannot.
You cannot say they "suck". You do not prefer them and you do not like their music. Geddy can sing, play bass, and play keyboards (with his feet) all at the same time. Alex is one of the most technical virtuoso guitarists ever. Neil Peart is regarded as one of the top 3 drummers of all time. A lot of people do not like Geddy's voice. That is why there are so many choices in music, cars....life. It's like saying an L-88 Corvette sucks. They do not suck, you just prefer Shelbys.
Back to the topic. I'm assuming that the car does not exist any longer, but I agree with Pete, two words..."Lil Red".
I disagree with your logic. Music is about taste. I don't argue. I just change the channel. Click. ;)
Try their free preview. It's quite cool.
[/quote]
How do you search ads? I would have thought they were data in an image. Are the transcribed so you can google them?
[/quote]
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
Try their free preview. It's quite cool.
Who's free preview? Google? The newspaper's?
The list of people who have tried to pull off fakes is pretty long. If there really is a conspiracy to reconstruct any car, I guess we will have to wait to see it.
Apparently, at least some forum members think that is a possibilty, I do not.
I think they underestimate the collective knowledge here. I do not, because I have been here from day one and I know how powerful that is....
Agreed. I think because it is a celebrity's car makes it that much more difficult.
Plus, I consider some might not be fans of Morrison and that's fine, but as you stated they are underestimating the knowledge that's obvious on this forum.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 17, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
The list of people who have tried to pull off fakes is pretty long. If there really is a conspiracy to reconstruct any car, I guess we will have to wait to see it.
Apparently, at least some forum members think that is a possibilty, I do not.
I think they underestimate the collective knowledge here. I do not, because I have been here from day one and I know how powerful that is....
The post for this topic is Jim Morrison's shelby. Now we got people debating the band Rush. Can we stay on topic ?
Doors then??? ;D
Quote from: Scott b on March 17, 2019, 07:52:34 PM
The post for this topic is Jim Morrison's shelby. Now we got people debating the band Rush. Can we stay on topic ?
Agreed Scott. How about some video to get everyone talking again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDAmweqwMSM
If it ever does get found, it will have to be considered the coolest celebrity lost/found car ever. Lil Bastard would be a close second.
This is a great thread!
I think many Porsche experts think James Dean's car still exists, just not sure where it is.
the title has been find in Paris in 1971 , I thought it s been for sale sometime but i can't find when , it was on the old forum .....
Quote from: chris NOS on March 18, 2019, 04:21:12 AM
the title has been find in Paris in 1971 , I thought it s been for sale sometime but i can't find when , it was on the old forum .....
Bret from CapeCod Mustang owns it.
+1
Quote from: Frankie on March 17, 2019, 03:58:41 PM
I am another vote that Rush is not a good band, if that is musical talent then, WOW. His giddy singing, and the drummer's rifts really are nothing except small change ups. Being"tight" does not make good music. I have a few records in my collection, I do have 2 records that I just have as "collector" records, in case someone what's to hear that... Rush is one and the other is LOL Journey. Anyway, I can make my Shelby look like it has been in the garage for years if I carefully place items all over it also. LOL....Love the stories and pictures.
Great article on a guy duplicating the one of one 1968 Z28 Camaro
Quote from: 2112 on March 17, 2019, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 17, 2019, 11:52:18 AM
This will happen, dont be surprised.
As stated before , this project has been in the works for years.
Not only Mustang / Shelby experts, but many other experts in different non automotive fields are involved. The duplicating and aging the paper work for your paper trail as you mentioned has more than likely been done. You will have witnesses available to testify its validity and existence. This is a major production.
The vehicle may come out as a derelict rebuildable or driveable with patina. Again years in the making.
Once again all the i will be dotted and all the Ts will be crossed...
Got to go, happy St Patty's day to all !
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
To be honest, it would not surprise me if this happened. Then it becomes important to have a good paper trail to go with it. Sure there are countless ways to do this, but this car will be scrutinized to no end. I always maintain the truth always comes out. Then we'll see if the Morrison/Courson heirs come after it.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/just-a-second-1968-chevrolet-camaro-z-28/
The knowledge and talent is second to none. I believe it to be world class. But anything and everything is possible having all the right elements and funds available
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 17, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
The list of people who have tried to pull off fakes is pretty long. If there really is a conspiracy to reconstruct any car, I guess we will have to wait to see it.
Apparently, at least some forum members think that is a possibilty, I do not.
I think they underestimate the collective knowledge here. I do not, because I have been here from day one and I know how powerful that is....
+1
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 07:39:09 PM
Agreed. I think because it is a celebrity's car makes it that much more difficult.
Plus, I consider some might not be fans of Morrison and that's fine, but as you stated they are underestimating the knowledge that's obvious on this forum.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 17, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
The list of people who have tried to pull off fakes is pretty long. If there really is a conspiracy to reconstruct any car, I guess we will have to wait to see it.
Apparently, at least some forum members think that is a possibilty, I do not.
I think they underestimate the collective knowledge here. I do not, because I have been here from day one and I know how powerful that is....
owned by a fellow saac member in the usa
Quote from: chris NOS on March 18, 2019, 04:21:12 AM
the title has been find in Paris in 1971 , I thought it s been for sale sometime but i can't find when , it was on the old forum .....
+1
Did everyone have a great St Patties day ! We did
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 18, 2019, 04:59:46 AM
Quote from: chris NOS on March 18, 2019, 04:21:12 AM
the title has been find in Paris in 1971 , I thought it s been for sale sometime but i can't find when , it was on the old forum .....
Bret from CapeCod Mustang owns it.
+1
Bret owns a copy of the car's California Vehicle Registration from 1969. Apparently the last time it was registered, but not the last it was around as per the adds posted.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 18, 2019, 08:50:46 AM
+1
Did everyone have a great St Patties day ! We did
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 18, 2019, 04:59:46 AM
Quote from: chris NOS on March 18, 2019, 04:21:12 AM
the title has been find in Paris in 1971 , I thought it s been for sale sometime but i can't find when , it was on the old forum .....
Bret from CapeCod Mustang owns it.
I appreciate the contribution of the ads to the discussion.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 18, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
I appreciate the contribution of the ads to the discussion.
+1
For instance: I grew up in the car theft capitol of the country - south Chicago. It was not unheard of cars disappearing, yet, it seems a certain auto wrecking yard always had engines, transmissions, and other parts, but never the chassis that carried it. The rumors always had it that they cars chassis were torched up into little pieces and put into the scrap bin.
I believe 939 either dissappeared this way OR it is sitting somewhere unknown to anybody with one of those crotchity old farts sitting around waiting because....I'm gonna fix it up someday.
I do imagine though, with a good front end wreck the car might have been front - halved, so, proof will be hard to come by. Another possibility is it is running around on the Fomoco vin. Out of country, Canada or Mexico.
There is a well known car collector in California, that has stated several times on another forum that he knows someone (another collector) that has seen the car, and has been trying to buy it for years. It is also been said, that the person who has the car does not know what they have. It's a story, it's plausible, and the latter fits toward the wreck and front half replaced scenario.
Quote from: roddster on March 18, 2019, 12:07:21 PM
For instance: I grew up in the car theft capitol of the country - south Chicago. It was not unheard of cars disappearing, yet, it seems a certain auto wrecking yard always had engines, transmissions, and other parts, but never the chassis that carried it. The rumors always had it that they cars chassis were torched up into little pieces and put into the scrap bin.
I believe 939 either dissappeared this way OR it is sitting somewhere unknown to anybody with one of those crotchity old farts sitting around waiting because....I'm gonna fix it up someday.
I do imagine though, with a good front end wreck the car might have been front - halved, so, proof will be hard to come by. Another possibility is it is running around on the Fomoco vin. Out of country, Canada or Mexico.
so lets see Bret(who has the title) and Bob say it is possible the car is still around(hey Little Red was found after even that owner was told his car didn't exist by SAAC). Another story by 939 sounds plausible. Tony is adamant the car is long gone and anything "found: would be a fake. So what am I missing here?
Who is on first...
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on March 18, 2019, 01:52:44 PM
so lets see Bret(who has the title) and Bob say it is possible the car is still around(hey Little Red was found after even that owner was told his car didn't exist by SAAC). Another story by 939 sounds plausible. Tony is adamant the car is long gone and anything "found: would be a fake. So what am I missing here?
Bret only has a copy of the last known registration. Not the title of the car. I don't know is on 3rd ;)
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on March 18, 2019, 01:52:44 PM
so lets see Bret(who has the title) and Bob say it is possible the car is still around(hey Little Red was found after even that owner was told his car didn't exist by SAAC). Another story by 939 sounds plausible. Tony is adamant the car is long gone and anything "found: would be a fake. So what am I missing here?
We've owned a now 52 year old spliced together notchback racer since December 1977 that I have proven sworn history on. All 4 previous owners are alive going back to its purchase after the 1968 racing season in early 1969. It is a never delivered to dealership acapulco blue 1967 GT500 front clip welded mid floor pan to a 1968 notchback. The Ford and Shelby VINs are visible and well documented. The car was purchased in blue paint from Ray Wolff and each subsequent owner has attested to selling it to the next. What is not known is how or why did Ray Wolff splice together a GT500 front clip with a notchback rear clip? It has had a plethora of 1967-1968 TA bits and pieces on it throughout its racing history. Wolff reportedly raced it at Riverside in an SCCA National in 1968 and it was blue #9. According to hangarounds at Wolff's shop he had rooms full of SAI parts and piles of junk everywhere. I was personally told that Wolff was capable of splicing together a race car.
This is interesting information. Ray Wolff worked for Shelby correct? Someone here had speculated that possibly Ray Wolff was the same person as Ray's Hi-Performance Center in Inglewood. Where Morrison's Shelby was listed for-sale in the add. That would be a key-find if so.
Quote from: SFM5022JR on March 18, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
We've owned a now 52 year old spliced together notchback racer since December 1977 that I have proven sworn history on. All 4 previous owners are alive going back to its purchase after the 1968 racing season in early 1969. It is a never delivered to dealership acapulco blue 1967 GT500 front clip welded mid floor pan to a 1968 notchback. The Ford and Shelby VINs are visible and well documented. The car was purchased in blue paint from Ray Wolff and each subsequent owner has attested to selling it to the next. What is not known is how or why did Ray Wolff splice together a GT500 front clip with a notchback rear clip? It has had a plethora of 1967-1968 TA bits and pieces on it throughout its racing history. Wolff reportedly raced it at Riverside in an SCCA National in 1968 and it was blue #9. According to hangarounds at Wolff's shop he had rooms full of SAI parts and piles of junk everywhere. I was personally told that Wolff was capable of splicing together a race car.
So you are saying the race car has a 1967 Shelby front clip with 1967 Shelby serial numbers?
Why would that car have not been delivered to a dealer?
Sorry dont mean to hijack the thread
Quote from: SFM5022JR on March 18, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
We've owned a now 52 year old spliced together notchback racer since December 1977 that I have proven sworn history on. All 4 previous owners are alive going back to its purchase after the 1968 racing season in early 1969. It is a never delivered to dealership acapulco blue 1967 GT500 front clip welded mid floor pan to a 1968 notchback. The Ford and Shelby VINs are visible and well documented. The car was purchased in blue paint from Ray Wolff and each subsequent owner has attested to selling it to the next. What is not known is how or why did Ray Wolff splice together a GT500 front clip with a notchback rear clip? It has had a plethora of 1967-1968 TA bits and pieces on it throughout its racing history. Wolff reportedly raced it at Riverside in an SCCA National in 1968 and it was blue #9. According to hangarounds at Wolff's shop he had rooms full of SAI parts and piles of junk everywhere. I was personally told that Wolff was capable of splicing together a race car.
Are you trying to say that there is no record of the front clip (when it was a complete car) ever being delivered to Ford/Shelby dealership? . If not I am not sure what is so special needing "sworn testimony" about a clipped car other then in this case a poor choice for a donor car. Help me understand your point of view.
I would guess two wrecks make one good car?
spliced together
http://www.ponysite.de/68_notchback_Ray_Wolff.htm
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 18, 2019, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: SFM5022JR on March 18, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
We've owned a now 52 year old spliced together notchback racer since December 1977 that I have proven sworn history on. All 4 previous owners are alive going back to its purchase after the 1968 racing season in early 1969. It is a never delivered to dealership acapulco blue 1967 GT500 front clip welded mid floor pan to a 1968 notchback. The Ford and Shelby VINs are visible and well documented. The car was purchased in blue paint from Ray Wolff and each subsequent owner has attested to selling it to the next. What is not known is how or why did Ray Wolff splice together a GT500 front clip with a notchback rear clip? It has had a plethora of 1967-1968 TA bits and pieces on it throughout its racing history. Wolff reportedly raced it at Riverside in an SCCA National in 1968 and it was blue #9. According to hangarounds at Wolff's shop he had rooms full of SAI parts and piles of junk everywhere. I was personally told that Wolff was capable of splicing together a race car.
Are you trying to say that there is no record of the front clip (when it was a complete car) ever being delivered to Ford/Shelby dealership? . If not I am not sure what is so special needing "sworn testimony" about a clipped car other then in this case a poor choice for a donor car. Help me understand your point of view.
Looks like the car was sent to Paradise Ford, in Arizona and wrecked. Doesnt appear to be a mystery there?
If I read correctly on ponysite that the mystery is still which 68 TA car (VIN wise) the rear clip came from if in fact it started life as a 68 TA notchback. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
maybe it fell off the train.....and jim found it in the desert.....phred
I am really seeing a coincidence here.
Quote from: SFM5022JR on March 18, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
We've owned a now 52 year old spliced together notchback racer since December 1977 that I have proven sworn history on. All 4 previous owners are alive going back to its purchase after the 1968 racing season in early 1969. It is a never delivered to dealership acapulco blue 1967 GT500 front clip welded mid floor pan to a 1968 notchback. The Ford and Shelby VINs are visible and well documented. The car was purchased in blue paint from Ray Wolff and each subsequent owner has attested to selling it to the next. What is not known is how or why did Ray Wolff splice together a GT500 front clip with a notchback rear clip? It has had a plethora of 1967-1968 TA bits and pieces on it throughout its racing history. Wolff reportedly raced it at Riverside in an SCCA National in 1968 and it was blue #9. According to hangarounds at Wolff's shop he had rooms full of SAI parts and piles of junk everywhere. I was personally told that Wolff was capable of splicing together a race car.
regarding the above post, don't know if this is relevant here or not ? I have this in my files tagged as Ray Wolff/Mustang '68 Riverside. I also have a couple of images of him with a early notch at Vacaville & Phoenix in '66 with High Performance Motors writ on the front fenders.
Mike
Jim..... Good luck on your search for info after all this time. I wish I had some pics of it when I wanted to buy your car, apparently just before you guys bought it when it was black. You know I ended up purchasing its engine with all its go fast parts from its race days, I used the engine in one of my cars over the years and sold the cylinder heads to someone that owned one of the BIRDCAGE racers from back in the day at one of the santa monica pier gatherings in LOS ANGELES about 15 years ago or so. Those heads came on your car and had the banana ports welded up with valley head service stampings on them. Huge fender flares with a GT 500 front end grafted on to it didn't exactly make my DAD happy back then- It could have been me looking for this info... Be well my friend :)
I think Tony wants to be #1 in posts on the forum. LOL
I think he already is! :)
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 19, 2019, 01:11:20 PM
I think he already is! :)
indeed, but short of the original post on the first saac website of 1 billion...more than McDonalds...
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on March 19, 2019, 12:23:07 PM
I think Tony wants to be #1 in posts on the forum. LOL
done, but short of the original saac site posts of 1 billion...more than McDonalds...
did you know that tony is also fluent in cantonese ?
char, chin chin, bok choy, chow main, chop suey, chop shop...
let's get back on topic the non existing jimmy morrison shelby someone wants to or is recreating already topic...
I assume Dave meanwhile used his tools to search the registry (hidden files) for the other JEK616 in that sales ad to find out, if that trace would take the case any further.
I wonder also if someone knows the further history line of Ray Wolffs shop at El Segundo after 68/69 through the 70ies and if there were any linked garages, that could be called Ray's Hi Performance center without being "sued" by Ray Wolff in his neighbourhood along Sepulveda Freeway.
So the question remains if one can look up the business background of this advertising Ray just to add more to the research or skip this.
From what I have seen Ray Wolff was at Hi-Performance Motors. There was an add where he was looking for salesmen for Cobras and Shelbys. This was Carroll Shelby and Lew Spencer's place correct? Did he leave that business and start his own not far away in Inglewood?
Quote from: TransamEd on March 19, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I assume Dave meanwhile used his tools to search the registry (hidden files) for the other JEK616 in that sales ad to find out, if that trace would take the case any further.
I wonder also if someone knows the further history line of Ray Wolffs shop at El Segundo after 68/69 through the 70ies and if there were any linked garages, that could be called Ray's Hi Performance center without being "sued" by Ray Wolff in his neighbourhood along Sepulveda Freeway.
So the question remains if one can look up the business background of this advertising Ray just to add more to the research or skip this.
This link clearly shows that he raced in 1968 under the name of Ray's Hi-Performance Center.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Ray-Wolff-USA.html
Obviously it makes sense that Ray Wolff has a link with that sales ad to the licence plate code of the Morrison car.
One step further ;)
That Add for the 67 Shelby sure is interesting...anything is possible.
Ray Wolff (also seen it as Ray Wolfe) was General Manager at HI-PO Motors
He picked up 6S2020 from SAI after two months of "storage" 12/30/66 ( maybe thats when 2020 got the motor from 5R540)....Ray Wolff, General Manager/Racer at Hi-Po Motors................?
2020 went back and forth from SAI and HI-PO Motors about three times between 7/11/66 and 2/28/67
Became a Company car at SAI, and never sold through a dealer to the public.
Howard thinks an employee bought 2020 when LAX shut down.
Wow, and there it is. Very cool.
Quote from: TransamEd on March 20, 2019, 02:22:27 AM
This link clearly shows that he raced in 1968 under the name of Ray's Hi-Performance Center.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Ray-Wolff-USA.html
Obviously it makes sense that Ray Wolff has a link with that sales ad to the licence plate code of the Morrison car.
One step further ;)
All I hear is crickets in here since the Ray Wolff revelation. What happened?
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
"We" aren't past that. You are. Maybe it's hidden in the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine? 8)
Like weird scenes inside the gold mine? 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
"We" aren't past that. You are. Maybe it's hidden in the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine? 8)
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 05:25:29 PM
Like weird scenes inside the gold mine? 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
"We" aren't past that. You are. Maybe it's hidden in the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine? 8)
No. Like finding that mine is as likely as finding that car. The highest probability is that neither exist.
I realize you are known for your snarky comments. You know the best thing about those are. It puts the post back on top. Thanks!
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 05:25:29 PM
Like weird scenes inside the gold mine? 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
"We" aren't past that. You are. Maybe it's hidden in the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine? 8)
No. Like finding that mine is as likely as finding that car. The highest probability is that neither exist.
I love this story.
Whether something comes from it or not, I am clicking on the thread every time.
Just wait till EightBarrel sees it! He'll will light up the clickcount.
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 07:52:21 PM
I realize you are known for your snarky comments. You know the best thing about those are. It puts the post back on top. Thanks!
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 05:25:29 PM
Like weird scenes inside the gold mine? 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 21, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 21, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
That's 1969 status quo and we are already past that. I predict the bandwidth is smoking looking for the name Wolff.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 21, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
nothing to say about something that doesn't exist
"We" aren't past that. You are. Maybe it's hidden in the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine? 8)
No. Like finding that mine is as likely as finding that car. The highest probability is that neither exist.
Snarky? Would you know the difference between snarky and truth? Seems you dwell in a fantasy world? Have fun. ;)
What in the world guys? This thread is going to get locked like the other ones real soon.
Extensive Google search reveals Ray Wolff imported at least in 1968 a venezuelan Mercer race car and by 1980 he was still around in the race scene or maybe even the Duesenberg restoration scene.
I found this later on:
" Model J - After several owners it became the property of a gentleman by the name of Ray Wolff, who began the restoration process. The late Ray Wolff is a former president of the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club and a noted Duesenberg historian. He was one of the first automotive historians who realized that proper documentation could enhance the value of a motor car. Ray Wolff died in 1991. His obituary (by today's Duesenberg historian Fred Roe) was published in the Journal of the Society of Automotive Historians. (photo courtesy RM Auctions)"
Not saying that this is the same Ray Wolff..somewhere else they say he found the Duesi in 1962.
The timeframe of his death matches what I was told by someone yesterday, who was a regular at his shop in Inglewood. I've also heard others have already tracked down his son. I'm not aware if that revealed anything or not.
Quote from: TransamEd on March 22, 2019, 09:11:03 AM
Extensive Google search reveals Ray Wolff imported at least in 1968 a venezuelan Mercer race car and by 1980 he was still around in the race scene or maybe even the Duesenberg restoration scene.
I found this later on:
" Model J - After several owners it became the property of a gentleman by the name of Ray Wolff, who began the restoration process. The late Ray Wolff is a former president of the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club and a noted Duesenberg historian. He was one of the first automotive historians who realized that proper documentation could enhance the value of a motor car. Ray Wolff died in 1991. His obituary (by today's Duesenberg historian Fred Roe) was published in the Journal of the Society of Automotive Historians. (photo courtesy RM Auctions)"
Not saying that this is the same Ray Wolff..somewhere else they say he found the Duesi in 1962.
This saga, cars falling off the train, missing Playmate cars, unearthed engineering vehicles all add an enjoyable diversion from the daily technical enlightenment. ;D
This stuff would never happen with a mass production auto manufacturer,which makes it cool. Charming..We are lucky folks. ;D
Quote from: Bigblock on March 22, 2019, 10:33:54 AM
This saga, cars falling off the train, missing Playmate cars, unearthed engineering vehicles all add an enjoyable diversion from the daily technical enlightenment. ;D
+1 Never say NEVER
Good Thread
+1 have a great weekend Mr T
Quote from: 557 on March 22, 2019, 12:03:02 PM
This stuff would never happen with a mass production auto manufacturer,which makes it cool. Charming..We are lucky folks. ;D
+1
(I need to get my post count up)
Quote from: 1690 on March 22, 2019, 01:45:10 PM
+1
(I need to get my post count up)
Seriously Nick.
For the sake of argument, AND ONLY the sake of argument, if this car were actually to turn up and it was authenticated by Kevin Marti, would it be accepted into the SAAC community like Little Red? (And the Mexico Bullitt for that matter?)
I appreciate Kevin Marti, but respectfully dont believe he would be the best person to "authenticate" the car.
I am not sure if you followed the second Bullitt car, but there are some questions to its authenticity
There are no questions regarding Little Red, because it was shown as found
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 22, 2019, 07:07:57 PM
I appreciate Kevin Marti, but respectfully dont believe he would be the best person to "authenticate" the car.
I am not sure if you followed the second Bullitt car, but there are some questions to its authenticity
There are no questions regarding Little Red, because it was shown as found
+1 . Kevin is great at the numbers and books however.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 22, 2019, 07:07:57 PM
I am not sure if you followed the second Bullitt car, but there are some questions to its authenticity.
For the sake of clarity, the second car is the Mexican junkyard car, correct?
Yes. That's the one I was referring to.
As was I
Old article, but good.
Approved +1
one more time, the pot with tea is being mixed or has been already brewed with all the correct stamping, vins, intricacies, patina, paperwork, documentation, witnesses, history, etc. that will be untraceable
why? because an expert, master craftsmanship, member of the guild, true renaissance man will be or has been involved
we call once again shananigans...
"Untraceable" ist just an opinion, not a fact.
The good thing is that with the majority believing in a cold case, the few with an open mind have a better chance to find it 52 plus years later😉
I had the fortune to be part of a few such projects. It is really thrilling and fun.
Quote from: TransamEd on March 22, 2019, 09:11:03 AM
Extensive Google search reveals Ray Wolff imported at least in 1968 a venezuelan Mercer race car and by 1980 he was still around in the race scene or maybe even the Duesenberg restoration scene.
Found the attached business card image in my photo library...
Carrol Shelby?
Isn't El Segundo where Fred Sanford lives? :o
Here's a little more fuel for the fire....appears maybe a little body shop help at the same shop?
This looks way too clear to see the car existed post 1971....
had a hard time seeing original with the yellow box..
Quote from: 69mach351w on March 25, 2019, 09:16:35 PM
Isn't El Segundo where Fred Sanford lives? :o
. I'm coming to see you Elizabeth!!!
that's because fred knows it's being duplicated...its the big one!!!
Quote from: 557 on April 08, 2019, 08:03:20 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on March 25, 2019, 09:16:35 PM
Isn't El Segundo where Fred Sanford lives? :o
. I'm coming to see you Elizabeth!!!
Also, someone was driving it too. Because the mileage started at 14k in 1970, and increased to 15k when it was last advertised in October 1971.
Quote from: 1331 on April 08, 2019, 07:30:39 PM
This looks way too clear to see the car existed post 1971....
you know i am starting to believe that it may truly come back
rumors say that a family of four has been seen recently driving it
all kidding aside, if it comes back whomever introduces it to the world i assure you has dotted ALL the i's and crossed ALL the t's....not even the best of the best will know it's not real
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on April 08, 2019, 09:14:09 PM
Also, someone was driving it too. Because the mileage started at 14k in 1970, and increased to 15k when it was last advertised in
[/quote]
Bet a drug sniffin dog would have fun with that car!!!
Happy birthday Jimmy...O Brother, Where Art Thou 500 ?
Gone but not forgotten(both the Lizard king and the blue lady)
Trent definitely not forgotten....once "discovered" it will be like the old memorex commerical
Is it live or is it memorex ??? beep, beep !
Quote from: 557 on December 08, 2019, 08:01:43 PM
Gone but not forgotten(both the Lizard king and the blue lady)
The plot thickens.....
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
The plot thickens.....
I don't follow. What does a generic 67 sill plate and a Ray Wolff business card have to do with Morrison's car?
QSS
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on July 01, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
The plot thickens.....
I don't follow. What does a generic 67 sill plate and a Ray Wolff business card have to do with Morrison's car?
QSS
Here is a more personal Ray Wolff business card. I believe the shop on the card advertised in the news paper the car for sale back in the day . Who knows what the significance of the typical sill plate emblem is.
Clearly Ray Wolfe's business card that I posted a picture of from The John Atzbach auction is legit.
The phone numbers are one and the same with the ads referenced in the first post on this thread.
Ray Wolfe advertised Jims car for sale up until October 2, 1971 in the LA Times.
So ....unless Ray fraudulently listed a 1967 GT 500 with license plate VRD 389 (known to belong to Jim Morrison) then, this is indisputable proof that Jim Morrison's 1967 GT500 was in existence and in running and driving condition three months after Jim died in 1971.
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 11:28:44 PM
Clearly Ray Wolfe's business card that I posted a picture of from The John Atzbach auction is legit.
The phone numbers are one and the same with the ads referenced in the first post on this thread.
Ray Wolfe advertised Jims car for sale up until October 2, 1971 in the LA Times.
So ....unless Ray fraudulently listed a 1967 GT 500 with license plate VRD 389 (known to belong to Jim Morrison) then, this is indisputable proof that Jim Morrison's 1967 GT500 was in existence and in running and driving condition three months after Jim died in 1971.
Clearly the picture I posted is Ray Wolff's personal business card too. Clearly the one you posted is Ray Wolff's generic Ray's High Performance Center business card. I was not responding to you but another poster. Why don't you take a pill and calm down please.
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 11:28:44 PM
Clearly Ray Wolfe's business card that I posted a picture of from The John Atzbach auction is legit.
The phone numbers are one and the same with the ads referenced in the first post on this thread.
Ray Wolfe advertised Jims car for sale up until October 2, 1971 in the LA Times.
So ....unless Ray fraudulently listed a 1967 GT 500 with license plate VRD 389 (known to belong to Jim Morrison) then, this is indisputable proof that Jim Morrison's 1967 GT500 was in existence and in running and driving condition three months after Jim died in 1971.
Very Interesting ^^^^^^
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 01, 2020, 10:56:42 PM
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on July 01, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
The plot thickens.....
I don't follow. What does a generic 67 sill plate and a Ray Wolff business card have to do with Morrison's car?
QSS
Here is a more personal Ray Wolff business card. I believe the shop on the card advertised in the news paper the car for sale back in the day . Who knows what the significance of the typical sill plate emblem is.
Carroll spelt wrong on Hi-Po Motors card
I'll try and take the high road here...
Bob, I mistakenly replied to your comment when I was trying to respond to the post before yours
I am trying to close the loop with a recognized person involved with Shelby selling what was once Jims car well after the supposed crushing had occurred.
We have to hurry up & find this car and reveal it to the world before the people who care are too old to care anymore or have broken on thru to the other side already.
Elementary my dear Watson or QSS .
Parts that have been or currently purchased to recreate this auto.....
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on July 01, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
The plot thickens.....
I don't follow. What does a generic 67 sill plate and a Ray Wolff business card have to do with Morrison's car?
QSS
+ 1 on that chill pill
Please follow ourr inspirational quotes of the day
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 01, 2020, 11:50:05 PM
Quote from: 1331 on July 01, 2020, 11:28:44 PM
Clearly Ray Wolfe's business card that I posted a picture of from The John Atzbach auction is legit.
The phone numbers are one and the same with the ads referenced in the first post on this thread.
Ray Wolfe advertised Jims car for sale up until October 2, 1971 in the LA Times.
So ....unless Ray fraudulently listed a 1967 GT 500 with license plate VRD 389 (known to belong to Jim Morrison) then, this is indisputable proof that Jim Morrison's 1967 GT500 was in existence and in running and driving condition three months after Jim died in 1971.
Clearly the picture I posted is Ray Wolff's personal business card too. Clearly the one you posted is Ray Wolff's generic Ray's High Performance Center business card. I was not responding to you but another poster. Why don't you take a pill and calm down please.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 02, 2020, 06:35:19 AM
+ 1 on that chill pill
Please follow ourr inspirational quotes of the day
And that would be:
Stop being part of the problem and start being part of a successful solution.Read and reread this till it sinks in.
I think the classified ad is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't prove the car was seen at posting and not from a phone call from Mr. Morrison.
Is the value of the car that high that it is worth creating it (cloning it I suppose) from any kind of DNA that can be scrapped up?
What's the potential value? Is it in the range of Bullet?
Never ever say that word....sink
Quote from: Bill on July 02, 2020, 06:42:45 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC link=topic=5229.msg94287#msg94287 date=1593686119
/quote]
.[/b][/color]
this till it sinks in.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 01, 2020, 10:56:42 PM
Here is a more personal Ray Wolff business card. I believe the shop on the card advertised in the news paper the car for sale back in the day . Who knows what the significance of the typical sill plate emblem is.
I've followed the Morrison story here on the forums since the day the forum started. I didn't realize the Ray Wolff connection to the story.
Thanks for the info.
QSS
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 02, 2020, 07:12:24 AM
I think the classified ad is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't prove the car was seen at posting and not from a phone call from Mr. Morrison.
Is the value of the car that high that it is worth creating it (cloning it I suppose) from any kind of DNA that can be scrapped up?
What's the potential value? Is it in the range of Bullet?
Hard to say what it would fetch - but being a "celebrity car" has meant more dollars in past auctions, ie: Bullitt & Eleanor. I would guess it would easily be a 7 figure car with, especially once the marketing types flog on all the mystery & intrigue that surrounds the car!
Whos to say that the plates were not just changed to another 500 back then. Cars were plentiful and maybe it was a way to generate interest in the advertised car? I thought I had found it awhile back, my car is similar... Nightmist blue 67 gt 500 taken off the road in 1971 due to some spirited driving while in a street race. Next came a long nap of 47 years before it saw the light of day. I had it checked by some of our in house experts here and the Beauty and the Beast is just that. Not the Blue Lady ! I know my car was in all the same spots Morrisons car was and had plenty of SEX , DRUGS, and ROCK and ROLL and street racing under its belt, just a distant relative to the BLUE LADY. ;D
The 67s get all the attention and controversy:
Morrison
Train wreck
Engineering Protos
Super Snake
Hand written VINs
:D
Once again as stated previously not even the "experts" will be able to tell it's not real. (thats because "experts " have been working on this for years)
The whole world will marvel at this unique find....Jimmys car has been uncovered like the great treasures in the pyramids
Rock on !
Quote from: FL SAAC on March 17, 2019, 11:52:18 AM
This will happen, dont be surprised.
As stated before , this project has been in the works for years.
Not only Mustang / Shelby experts, but many other experts in different non automotive fields are involved. The duplicating and aging the paper work for your paper trail as you mentioned has more than likely been done. You will have witnesses available to testify its validity and existence. This is a major production.
The vehicle may come out as a derelict rebuildable or driveable with patina. Again years in the making.
Once again all the i will be dotted and all the Ts will be crossed...
Got to go, happy St Patty's day to all !
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on March 17, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
To be honest, it would not surprise me if this happened. Then it becomes important to have a good paper trail to go with it. Sure there are countless ways to do this, but this car will be scrutinized to no end. I always maintain the truth always comes out. Then we'll see if the Morrison/Courson heirs come after it.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 17, 2019, 10:53:15 AM
[/quote]
[/quote]
Orale carnales !
Vimos un wey guiando el auto por toda tijuana, echando polvo estaban los guerros
Quote from: FL SAAC on March 24, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
one more time, the pot with tea is being mixed or has been already brewed with all the correct stamping, vins, intricacies, patina, paperwork, documentation, witnesses, history, etc. that will be untraceable
why? because an expert, master craftsmanship, member of the guild, true renaissance man will be or has been involved
we call once again shananigans...
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 02, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
Orale carnales !
Vimos un wey guiando el auto por toda tijuana, echando polvo estaban los guerros
Quote from: FL SAAC on March 24, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
one more time, the pot with tea is being mixed or has been already brewed with all the correct stamping, vins, intricacies, patina, paperwork, documentation, witnesses, history, etc. that will be untraceable
why? because an expert, master craftsmanship, member of the guild, true renaissance man will be or has been involved
we call once again shananigans...
I for one am not disputing your claims because it is highly plausible. Given your many posts on this subject at the very least a red flag will go up if and when the car surfaces. If you are privy to inside information you may want to discuss it with the 67 Shelby SAAC world registrar Dave Mathews if you haven't already done so. I think that is the responsible thing to do. He would be in a position of authority to possibly not let shenanigans get too much of a head start. That would be better then just posting to the crowd about it IMHO not that we are uninterested about the possible drama.
Quote from: Bigblock on July 02, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
The 67s get all the attention and controversy:
Morrison
Train wreck
Engineering Protos
Super Snake
Hand written VINs
:D
It's also because it's the best looking Shelby mustang... ;)
May we add...the last of the real ones...S H E L B Y...
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 02, 2020, 06:42:53 PM
Quote from: Bigblock on July 02, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
The 67s get all the attention and controversy:
Morrison
Train wreck
Engineering Protos
Super Snake
Hand written VINs
:D
It's also because it's the best looking Shelby mustang... ;)
We may.. As for Morrison. I can think of a lot better men I wouldn't mind owning a vehicle they drove.
Great read thanks for rehashing the thread i never saw it before , as a new owner of a Nighmist blue Parchment 67 gt500 its definitely been on my radar & one of the reasons i sought out that color combo.I actually just tried to get that same plate # VRD 389 through the CA Dmv but it's not available , i guess they don't reissue them or some one already grabbed it.Even tried for a couple other combo's like BLULADY & MOJORSN & LIZRDKG but everything was taken so just going with a black CA plate random 3 letters & 3 #'S
Quote from: 68krrrr on July 02, 2020, 08:53:05 PM
Even tried for a couple other combo's like BLULADY & MOJORSN & LIZRDKG but everything was taken
Any of those plates would be cool to have. 8)
THE END,and you only put the back plate on the car so it is "instructive" as well..... 8)
Of course, if past history has lead us to believe: If some well moneyed current or brand new owner has it, he can wittle any story about the car he wants too. We are supposed to swallow it.
THE END...that was what an LA detective who had first hand knowledge told us many years ago happened to this particular car. We had posted this on the original SAAC website.
That is why we are adamant, that if it does show up it will be the very best replica ever presented to mankind. No one, will be able to tell the difference. Everyone will be nodding and applauding it's return from the ashes.
Quote from: 557 on July 03, 2020, 12:22:02 AM
THE END,and you only put the back plate on the car so it is "instructive" as well..... 8)
NOT JIMS would work too?
What do you all think of....D.O.A.
I like THE END I'll give it a try
As I was "fermenting" over night, a vision came to me. I was in a desert and an Indian ( oh boy, sorry about that ment to say native American) came up to me and handed me these three tags for Jimmys non existing car:
NO PULSE
X-PIRED
NUTRLZD
But we still like D. O. A. best
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 03, 2020, 01:14:46 PM
THE END...that was what an LA detective who had first hand knowledge told us many years ago happened to this particular car. We had posted this on the original SAAC website."
"That is why we are adamant, that if it does show up it will be the very best replica ever presented to mankind. No one, will be able to tell the difference. Everyone will be nodding and applauding it's return from the ashes."
I'm glad to see this topic is still going along with all the varied opinions. This was my intention for my original post: to keep the dialog going.
I would be curious to know what the LA Detective actually said about the car with first hand knowledge.
When I hear this type of thing it makes me think of what Jim's bodyguard Tony Funches was quoted in a story about the search for this car. "I've told everyone the same thing for years. It got towed after it was totaled. It went to the shredder and is lost forever to early recycling. That's what junkyards do, did do, will do."
Jim's former brother-in-law Alan Graham, told the story about the car disappearing from LAX in 1969. So there are two people close to Jim Morrison whose stories can be disputed by the for sale adds.
To the question about the license plate being used on another 1967 GT500. It could be entirely possible but I feel unlikely. What I have learned is at that time the license plates were sold with the vehicle. This is how I learned that car collectors can track a car's provenance in California by searching for sale adds via Newspapers.com.
The last story I heard about this particular car around the time of my OP, is this. The car still exists. It was purchased long before it was ever known to be Jim Morrison's car. It was sitting outside for years and still may be. It is in very poor condition. The person who owned the car has passed on and a car collector has been trying to buy the car for years from the family. This was told to me second hand but was told in a time-frame that the information was current at that time of my OP.
I have since been waiting for any type of further news to emerge toward that story to prove it so. Maybe the scenario about the car being reproduced and documented could be true. Maybe I am naive, but I have faith that the Shelby experts will be able verify or disprove any car that shows up purported to be the Blue Lady.
One last thought. The known registration states Jim Morrison C/O Johnson and Harband. So who actually owned the car?
Just to add some "flesh"to the other address of Ray Wolffs garage in El Segundo:
(http://www.ponysite.de/raywolff_salesdoc.jpg)
Answer to question #1 and #2. Who cares?
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 05, 2020, 10:57:31 AM
Answer to question #1 and #2. Who cares?
Keith, not everyone hates Jim Morrison.
agent provocateur
I don't hate him either. However, he's certainly no hero. That's all I was saying. I did think enough to take a picture of his headstone while I was in France.
As for Chris: I'm not in Canada. We don't live under an oppressive government federally speaking. That means the first amendment still applies.
As a caveat: My favorite band is Canadian. I have seen RUSH 14 times. So all isn't bad. I just don't care for druggies.
Oh, and have a nice day!
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 05, 2020, 04:05:50 PM
I don't hate him either. However, he's certainly no hero. That's all I was saying. I did think enough to take a picture of his headstone while I was in France.
As for Chris: I'm not in Canada. We don't live under an oppressive government federally speaking. That means the first amendment still applies.
As a caveat: My favorite band is Canadian. I have seen RUSH 14 times. So all isn't bad. I just don't care for druggies.
Oh, and have a nice day!
Smoking a big fatty as I read this... (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/sasmokin.gif)
Only 14 times....newbie... ;D
Agent Provocateur is Foreigner not Rush ;)
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on July 05, 2020, 04:23:41 PM
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 05, 2020, 04:05:50 PM
I don't hate him either. However, he's certainly no hero. That's all I was saying. I did think enough to take a picture of his headstone while I was in France.
As for Chris: I'm not in Canada. We don't live under an oppressive government federally speaking. That means the first amendment still applies.
As a caveat: My favorite band is Canadian. I have seen RUSH 14 times. So all isn't bad. I just don't care for druggies.
Oh, and have a nice day!
Smoking a big fatty as I read this... (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/sasmokin.gif)
Only 14 times....newbie... ;D
Agent Provocateur is Foreigner not Rush ;)
Well, Chris. I know you're a pretty smart guy.. For a Canadian. ;D However, I wasn't linking the song but the group to Canucktada. My favorite is RUSH.
Yes, Agent Provocateur was sung Foreigner, and of course we know that the Agent Provocateur in this case had nothing to do with either of the aforementioned. It was a underhanded comment. I'm pretty smart for a white guy too. 8)
Love Chicago especially their song Question. 67 & 68
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 05, 2020, 10:57:31 AM
Answer to question #1 and #2. Who cares?
After looking at the writing style, this is one of the experts (accomplice) on this site using a different " PEN NAME "
I would be curious to know what the LA Detective actually said about the car with first hand knowledge.
He and the car are dead and buried
When I hear this type of thing it makes me think of what Jim's bodyguard Tony Funches was quoted in a story about the search for this car. "I've told everyone the same thing for years. It got towed after it was totaled. It went to the shredder and is lost forever to early recycling. That's what junkyards do, did do, will do."
The body guard like the detective had it right
Jim's former brother-in-law Alan Graham, told the story about the car disappearing from LAX in 1969. So there are two people close to Jim Morrison whose stories can be disputed by the for sale adds.
Dazed and confused
To the question about the license plate being used on another 1967 GT500. It could be entirely possible but I feel unlikely. What I have learned is at that time the license plates were sold with the vehicle. This is how I learned that car collectors can track a car's provenance in California by searching for sale adds via Newspapers.com.
Provenance fancy word used by the Bourgeoisie
The last story I heard about this particular car around the time of my OP, is this. The car still exists. It was purchased long before it was ever known to be Jim Morrison's car. It was sitting outside for years and still may be. It is in very poor condition. The person who owned the car has passed on and a car collector has been trying to buy the car for years from the family. This was told to me second hand but was told in a time-frame that the information was current at that time of my OP.
Okedokee
I have since been waiting for any type of further news to emerge toward that story to prove it so. Maybe the scenario about the car being reproduced and documented could be true. Maybe I am naive, but I have faith that the Shelby experts will be able verify or disprove any car that shows up purported to be the Blue Lady.
May we suggest a seance
I remember this with Phil Spector's car, CSX 2287 Knowing about his dark side there may have been other reasons it stayed hidden and changed hands as it did.
That is a vehicle I would be reluctant to own. It certainly has a lot of dark history and tragedy. I guess we'll never know the hows and whys, but they can't be good.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 05, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
After looking at the writing style, this is one of the experts (accomplice) on this site using a different " PEN NAME "
Incorrect. Same OP guy, same Bat channel.
I would be curious to know what the LA Detective actually said about the car with first hand knowledge.
He and the car are dead and buried One of these things is not like the other
When I hear this type of thing it makes me think of what Jim's bodyguard Tony Funches was quoted in a story about the search for this car. "I've told everyone the same thing for years. It got towed after it was totaled. It went to the shredder and is lost forever to early recycling. That's what junkyards do, did do, will do."
The body guard like the detective had it right Please refer to previous for-sale adds
Jim's former brother-in-law Alan Graham, told the story about the car disappearing from LAX in 1969. So there are two people close to Jim Morrison whose stories can be disputed by the for sale adds.
Dazed and confused Alright, alright, alright!
To the question about the license plate being used on another 1967 GT500. It could be entirely possible but I feel unlikely. What I have learned is at that time the license plates were sold with the vehicle. This is how I learned that car collectors can track a car's provenance in California by searching for sale adds via Newspapers.com.
Provenance fancy word used by the Bourgeoisie Rick DeBruhl and Mike Joy use this all the time on Barrett-Jackson.
The last story I heard about this particular car around the time of my OP, is this. The car still exists. It was purchased long before it was ever known to be Jim Morrison's car. It was sitting outside for years and still may be. It is in very poor condition. The person who owned the car has passed on and a car collector has been trying to buy the car for years from the family. This was told to me second hand but was told in a time-frame that the information was current at that time of my OP.
Okedokee You're welcome
I have since been waiting for any type of further news to emerge toward that story to prove it so. Maybe the scenario about the car being reproduced and documented could be true. Maybe I am naive, but I have faith that the Shelby experts will be able verify or disprove any car that shows up purported to be the Blue Lady.
May we suggest a seance I prefer an Ouiji Board. Oh and Jim refuses to give details. He just keeps repeating: I made the blue cars go away. And Mr. MOJO RISIN
Jim was a good singer,musician writer....I like RUSH too,but unfortunately Geddy sings like Jim (if he were wearing pants that were 8 sizes too tight)....Say what you want man,but "Jimbo" knew how to "croon" IMHO... ;D
That dude was McFugly wearing that Louis the 14th rug on his head
Quote from: The Going Thing on July 05, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
I remember this with Phil Spector's car, CSX 2287 Knowing about his dark side there may have been other reasons it stayed hidden and changed hands as it did.
That is a vehicle I would be reluctant to own. It certainly has a lot of dark history and tragedy. I guess we'll never know the hows and whys, but they can't be good.
Just maybe they will find it in an abandoned locker????
As Dave Hester would say YUUUP, you expert !
Quote from: Waiting for 939 on July 05, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 05, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
After looking at the writing style, this is one of the experts (accomplice) on this site using a different " PEN NAME "
Incorrect. Same OP guy, same Bat channel.
I would be curious to know what the LA Detective actually said about the car with first hand knowledge.
He and the car are dead and buried One of these things is not like the other
When I hear this type of thing it makes me think of what Jim's bodyguard Tony Funches was quoted in a story about the search for this car. "I've told everyone the same thing for years. It got towed after it was totaled. It went to the shredder and is lost forever to early recycling. That's what junkyards do, did do, will do."
The body guard like the detective had it right Please refer to previous for-sale adds
Jim's former brother-in-law Alan Graham, told the story about the car disappearing from LAX in 1969. So there are two people close to Jim Morrison whose stories can be disputed by the for sale adds.
Dazed and confused Alright, alright, alright!
To the question about the license plate being used on another 1967 GT500. It could be entirely possible but I feel unlikely. What I have learned is at that time the license plates were sold with the vehicle. This is how I learned that car collectors can track a car's provenance in California by searching for sale adds via Newspapers.com.
Provenance fancy word used by the Bourgeoisie Rick DeBruhl and Mike Joy use this all the time on Barrett-Jackson.
The last story I heard about this particular car around the time of my OP, is this. The car still exists. It was purchased long before it was ever known to be Jim Morrison's car. It was sitting outside for years and still may be. It is in very poor condition. The person who owned the car has passed on and a car collector has been trying to buy the car for years from the family. This was told to me second hand but was told in a time-frame that the information was current at that time of my OP.
Okedokee You're welcome
I have since been waiting for any type of further news to emerge toward that story to prove it so. Maybe the scenario about the car being reproduced and documented could be true. Maybe I am naive, but I have faith that the Shelby experts will be able verify or disprove any car that shows up purported to be the Blue Lady.
May we suggest a seance I prefer an Ouiji Board. Oh and Jim refuses to give details. He just keeps repeating: I made the blue cars go away. And Mr. MOJO RISIN
Tony:
And that's the Truof! Pfffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttt...
Could the car still exist? It could. There are plenty of motivations for it to be off radar. There are plenty of owners who do not have any knowledge of SAAC.
It seems kind of contradictory to definitively say " its gone " and at the same time believe a fake could not be identified.
As Mr. Gaines stated earlier it will get a thorough evaluation. It will be similar to the two Bullitt cars. One passes muster and the other does not.
Many have tried to present fakes and many have failed. Any car presented in restored condition will always be suspect. If it does exist it needs to be shown, like Lil Red, as found. That was a very wise decision.
I am very confident people like and including, Mr. Gaines and Mr. Speegle have looked at more 1967 San Jose cars than any other fantasy cabal of forgers.
those 68's just dont sit right.
If you could rehydrate those raisins.....thatd be grapes.....
YUUUP !
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 06, 2020, 04:30:45 PM
Could the car still exist? It could. There are plenty of motivations for it to be off radar. There are plenty of owners who do not have any knowledge of SAAC.
It seems kind of contradictory to definitively say " its gone " and at the same time believe a fake could not be identified.
As Mr. Gaines stated earlier it will get a thorough evaluation. It will be similar to the two Bullitt cars. One passes muster and the other does not.
Many have tried to present fakes and many have failed. Any car presented in restored condition will always be suspect. If it does exist it needs to be shown, like Lil Red, as found. That was a very wise decision.
I am very confident people like and including, Mr. Gaines and Mr. Speegle have looked at more 1967 San Jose cars than any other fantasy cabal of forgers.
Back to the topic at hand......
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Jimmy is dead
And his car is too....
Actually the car still lives as recycled tuna cans...