This posting is part a request for information and part a request for help in sourcing date code correct parts.
My car was completed on 02/14/1968, so it is that date that'll be used for the context of information and parts.
I removed and disassembled the engine back in the mid to late '70s with the hopes of rebuilding it because it lacked power and smoked horribly. Beyond that, I did not document anything about the engine identifiers. I stored the useable components and bought a 428CJ.
The PI block was cracked in several places, in the lifter galley, and subsequently scrapped. There is no hope or possibility of getting it back. I'm primarily looking for a suitable block and maybe a connecting rod and maybe an exhaust manifold.
Block
What engineering code should I look for; C6ME, C7ME, or C8ME?
What scratch should I look for; A or C?
What date code ranges should I consider? I was thinking that 7L(late), 7M, or 8A(early) might be considered okay? I think an early 7L and a late 8A wouldn't work.
Did the PI block have 2 or 3 web mains and are 3 web mains found only on the C scratch block?
Will "428" be found cast into a water passage covered by one of the core plugs?
Based on the heads (see below), I figure I could use either 7M or 8A(early). Would a 7L be too early for my car?
Crank Shaft
Was the 1U crank the only crank used in a '68 GT500?
Heads
The heads that came off my car's engine are:
C8AE-H 8A22
C8AE-H 7M26
The 7M26 head has a stamping that I believe may be related to my car's VIN. The car's VIN is 8T03S169334-01425. Here is the stamping.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/277-150919144929.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/277-150919145059.jpeg)
Unfortunately, the stamping is less than ideal, but I read it as 8T1(?)9334.
Connecting Rods
The rods that were in the engine were:
(1) C6AE-C
(7) C7AE-B
Were both the C6AE-C and C7AE-B rods used in the 428 PI in 1968? Do I need to find another C7AE-B, or can I reuse the C6AE-C? Are they interchangeable?
Exhaust Manifolds
The exhaust manifolds that were on my car were:
C7OE-A 7M29
C8OE-A 7M16 + a spacer
The C8OE-A is cracked, so it'll need to be repaired or replaced.
Crank Shaft Windage Tray
Did the 428 PI come with a crank shaft windage tray?
What benefit does it provide?
Lifter Galley Windage Tray
Did the 428 PI come with a lifter galley windage tray?
What benefit does it provide? I presume it minimized oil splash on to the aluminum intake manifold.
Any and all help will be appreciated.
Steve
C7ME
C scratch
8A block I'd be ok till about 26th
C7 rods but with large rod bolts
No windage tray yes valley panel
I believe those are your original heads of
Thank you Tim.
The search begins.
Steve
If you have that cracked block, there are all of your answers.
Quote from: 68blk500c on September 16, 2019, 10:52:45 AM
If you have that cracked block, there are all of your answers.
In his 4th paragragh, He mentioned that the block had been scrapped and no hope or possibility of getting it back ??? ::)
Yes, at the time, welding cast iron was not as successful as it may be today.
I gave it to a buddy who was making a junk run. He took it to a scrap metal place.
If I knew then, what I know today, I'd have held on to the block and had it re-evaluated for welded repairs.
Steve
I'm still looking for a date appropriate 428 PI block. In the mean while, I'm rebuilding and resourcing related components.
I recently bought a 1U crank that my engine builder said can be polished, rather than ground.
He also rebuilt the heads (pictured a few replies above) to 428 PI specs. Before I put the crank and heads in plastic bags and on the shelf, I want to coat them for what may be a lengthy storage. I'll paint the exterior surfaces of the heads. Once the exterior surfaces are painted, I'd like to coat the machined and bare cast and machined surfaces of the crank and heads with something that will prevent rust and minor oxidation.
I thought of using a spray oil or lubricant, WD-40, or Boshield. Is there a flaw in what I want to do or the fluids I'm thinking about using to prevent rust?
Steve
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on December 09, 2019, 01:35:25 PM
......................................... the fluids I'm thinking about using to prevent rust?
Steve
Try LPS 2, or if for many years LPS 3, but requires more effort in application (both are aerosols), and bag. :)
Scott.
Thank you Scott.
I'll look into the LPS products.
I presume you've used both LPS 2 & LPS 3. What is it about LPS 3 that makes it require more effort to apply?
Are they easily removed?
Are there reasons to remove either product when the engine is assembled? I'll be spraying it on the valve springs and hope if it needs to be removed, it can be washed off without having to disassemble the heads.
Steve
The LPS 3 product is heavier/thicker containing more of a waxing agent, therefore better shields the metal surfaces from exposure and oxidation, but because of this it doesn't "wick" as efficiently before thickening so one must be more deliberate in it application.
Most any general petroleum solvent will return them to solvency so as to wash way.
As far as concerns for the remaining material left within the engine, if reasonable, I wouldn't be concerned, it will dilute into the far greater sum of engine oil, it being also a classified as a lubricant (versus say WD40 which is truly not good at), although I would deem as a "light" lubricant (wax doesn't count here), and far less detrimental than the fuel pollution entering the crankcase; and if the engine has been allowed to sit for a duration, then I would be changing the first sum of oil after the first "break-in"/"start-up" period anyway.
The true challenge is what does one put on the block cylinder walls for an engine being stored for a long duration? Unfortunately, these cast iron surfaces seem the most susceptible to oxidation, and here preservative coatings may interfere in the piston-ring-cylinder wall sealing function. So if one chooses to utilize something other than engine oil here, it may be prudent to remove it, and apply upon the bores an appropriate lubricant prior to running. :)
Scott.
There is no such thing as a PI or a CJ block. The "C" scratch marking on the rear bulkhead replaced the "A" scratch in the fall of 1967, about September. There may be a period of overlap where some 428 engines used either one. The new "C" scratch casting has the reinforced main bearing support webbing. It was used in any / every / all 428 engines from fall of 1967 onwards, including GT500 Shelbys, cop cars, Cobra Jet 428's, and even the 428-4V in granny's station wagon.
For your car I agree the date range out to be 4 - 6 weeks prior to the car being built ideally. The VIN stamp is commonly found on cylinder heads, as you know, so it should be relatively easy to find a correct C scratch block since they were used in so many cars.
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on September 15, 2019, 04:38:44 PM
This posting is part a request for information and part a request for help in sourcing date code correct parts.
My car was completed on 02/14/1968, so it is that date that'll be used for the context of information and parts.
I removed and disassembled the engine back in the mid to late '70s with the hopes of rebuilding it because it lacked power and smoked horribly. Beyond that, I did not document anything about the engine identifiers. I stored the useable components and bought a 428CJ.
The PI block was cracked in several places, in the lifter galley, and subsequently scrapped. There is no hope or possibility of getting it back. I'm primarily looking for a suitable block and maybe a connecting rod and maybe an exhaust manifold.
Block
What engineering code should I look for; C6ME, C7ME, or C8ME?
What scratch should I look for; A or C?
What date code ranges should I consider? I was thinking that 7L(late), 7M, or 8A(early) might be considered okay? I think an early 7L and a late 8A wouldn't work.
Did the PI block have 2 or 3 web mains and are 3 web mains found only on the C scratch block?
Will "428" be found cast into a water passage covered by one of the core plugs?
Based on the heads (see below), I figure I could use either 7M or 8A(early). Would a 7L be too early for my car?
Crank Shaft
Was the 1U crank the only crank used in a '68 GT500?
Heads
The heads that came off my car's engine are:
C8AE-H 8A22
C8AE-H 7M26
The 7M26 head has a stamping that I believe may be related to my car's VIN. The car's VIN is 8T03S169334-01425. Here is the stamping.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/277-150919144929.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/277-150919145059.jpeg)
Unfortunately, the stamping is less than ideal, but I read it as 8T1(?)9334.
Connecting Rods
The rods that were in the engine were:
(1) C6AE-C
(7) C7AE-B
Were both the C6AE-C and C7AE-B rods used in the 428 PI in 1968? Do I need to find another C7AE-B, or can I reuse the C6AE-C? Are they interchangeable?
Exhaust Manifolds
The exhaust manifolds that were on my car were:
C7OE-A 7M29
C8OE-A 7M16 + a spacer
The C8OE-A is cracked, so it'll need to be repaired or replaced.
Crank Shaft Windage Tray
Did the 428 PI come with a crank shaft windage tray?
What benefit does it provide?
Lifter Galley Windage Tray
Did the 428 PI come with a lifter galley windage tray?
What benefit does it provide? I presume it minimized oil splash on to the aluminum intake manifold.
Any and all help will be appreciated.
Steve
Hey Steve
Do you have the intake manifold? If you do check the back of the manifold and see if you have a partial VIN stamping there.
Quote from: TLea on September 15, 2019, 09:17:18 PM
C7ME
C scratch
8A block I'd be ok till about 26th
C7 rods but with large rod bolts
No windage tray yes valley panel
I believe those are your original heads of
Hey Tim, I thought the A scratch was for a 68 GT500 and the C scratch was was for a KR?
QSS
Hey 8T03S1425,
My car is #1394, born on Feb 21st, 1968. Were almost brothers...... or cousins.......... or something like that ;D.
QSS
I might have a lone c7 correct connecting rod for you... ;)
Quote from: TXShelbyman on January 07, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Hey Steve
Do you have the intake manifold? If you do check the back of the manifold and see if you have a partial VIN stamping there.
Hey there TXShelbyman, fka watts428. When I bought the car, it was well used and abused. The intake and carb were not on the engine. I have since acquired both but I'm still looking for a date code correct, reinforced block.
For those interested, and in particular, those who have helped me get the car sorted out into its present condition, here's a little background:
I bought this car in 1976, after seeing it parked at an ARCO gas station. It was an 8 year old high performance car that saw regular usage, and was at the gas station for a new clutch. I was all of 22 years old and had a pedestrian knowledge of Shelbys. I knew the VIN was special and the car should have the VIN present in 3 easy to find locations. I didn't know much about the details of the engine back then. Besides, it was fairly commonly felt that if the car was used as expected, the likelihood of the original engine not being damaged from racing was fairly low. Back then, pulling a worn out 428 PI and popping in a 428 CJ, from a wrecked Mustang or Torino would have been an upgrade.
What I did know was that I wanted a convertible, GT500, or a KR, with a 4 speed trans. Once I saw this car also had air conditioning, I was as determined to buy this car as would be a wealthy bidder at a B-J auction, after having a dozen too many rum and cokes, bidding on one of those ultra rare, and super fancy, 1967 Shelby Eleanor Mustangs. Ironically, I did over pay for this Shelby!
Thanks to all who have responded, and those who continue to respond, to this thread. Your information has certainly helped me. I hope it helps others, as well.
Steve
Quote from: 427heaven on January 07, 2020, 09:18:18 PM
I might have a lone c7 correct connecting rod for you... ;)
Thank you for your offer. PM sent.
Steve
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on January 07, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
Hey 8T03S1425,
My car is #1394, born on Feb 21st, 1968. Were almost brothers...... or cousins.......... or something like that ;D.
QSS
Hey there QSS, Your reply immediately had me think about this comedy bit. Perhaps you recall it.
https://youtu.be/ZCqh5ROtQRg (https://youtu.be/ZCqh5ROtQRg)
Your car is 31 Shelby units lower, but built a week later. Do you know if there was a production issue causing the delay on your car?
My Marti report shows that my car was completed on 02/14/1968, 5 days ahead of schedule. Perhaps some of Al Grillo's good fellas "influenced" production. 8)
Steve
Please review a day at the plant. Your serial numbers were not in order. Its not uncommion for things to be jumbled up....
http://www.thecoralsnake.com/6368
This is incorrect. The A scratch was used through fall of 1967. The C scratch was used from then on. The date the car was built would determine the engine block.
It is correct that a KR would only have a C scratch because there were no A scratch blocks being made by the time you could order a KR.
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on January 07, 2020, 08:16:47 PM
Hey Tim, I thought the A scratch was for a 68 GT500 and the C scratch was was for a KR?
QSS
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on January 07, 2020, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on January 07, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
Hey 8T03S1425,
My car is #1394, born on Feb 21st, 1968. Were almost brothers...... or cousins.......... or something like that ;D.
QSS
Hey there QSS, Your reply immediately had me think about this comedy bit. Perhaps you recall it.
https://youtu.be/ZCqh5ROtQRg (https://youtu.be/ZCqh5ROtQRg)
Your car is 31 Shelby units lower, but built a week later. Do you know if there was a production issue causing the delay on your car?
My Marti report shows that my car was completed on 02/14/1968, 5 days ahead of schedule. Perhaps some of Al Grillo's good fellas "influenced" production. 8)
Steve
Hey Steve.
I do not recall that comedy bit. It's pretty dang funny but I believe it's a little before my time ;D.
Looking at my Marti Report, it says my car was scheduled to be built on February 15th but it wasn't built until February 21st, 6 days behind schedule.
When I look at my original Shelby Automotive Inc. invoice it shows my car was initially going to be a Lime colored car but at the last minute it was changed to a Red car. Al Renn Jr. at Johnny Bolton Ford, out of Maitland, Florida made the color change from a Lime colored car to Red colored car at some point in January, 1968. I'm not sure but this might have been the reason it was delayed by a week before it was actually built.
QSS
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on January 07, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
Hey 8T03S1425,
My car is #1394, born on Feb 21st, 1968. Were almost brothers...... or cousins.......... or something like that ;D.
QSS
Hey QuickSilverShelby,
Our cars are brothers! Mine is number 1032 and was built on 2/21/68. It was scheduled for 2/20/68.
Quote from: TXShelbyman on January 17, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
Hey QuickSilverShelby,
Our cars are brothers! Mine is number 1032 and was built on 2/21/68. It was scheduled for 2/20/68.
Hey Brother, what model is your car and what color?
QSS
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on January 19, 2020, 02:46:31 AM
Quote from: TXShelbyman on January 17, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
Hey QuickSilverShelby,
Our cars are brothers! Mine is number 1032 and was built on 2/21/68. It was scheduled for 2/20/68.
Hey Brother, what model is your car and what color?
QSS
It is a GT500 fastback. It is Lime Green, automatic with A/C.
This may help. :D
Jack in California has some 428 blocks 1-540-664-4418. Also Robbob36@hotmail.com may still have a 8A5 block
And you could contact Brandon in Washington state, he had lots of blocks. 1-509-713-5291 , His father told me.
Luck on your hunt
Troy In Oregon