I'm building a 9" axle for my GT350R tribute and remember hearing that the Detroit Locker used in the original cars is not a great option for a street car. Anybody got an informed opinion on the pros/cons of going with an aftermarket locker as opposed to the Ford Traction Lock that was used in other Shelby cars? I do hope to get the car on a road course now and then for some spirited driving but I won't be racing it competitively. Most miles will be on the street. Motor will be a 302 stroker so probably about 400 HP.
I've got a Detroit Locker from a 65 GT350 in my 66 Carryover, and I love it! You just have to get used to the sounds and pops. But, for wouldn't trade it!
Take a look at torque sensing Limited-Slip Differentials (or LSD), also known as torsional differentials. These units sense the torque on the wheel with the least traction and they mechanically multiply that torque to the other wheel. The most popular version seems to be the Eaton TrueTrac Differentials. They get good reviews as being reliable and reasonably priced.
Back in the 80's, I ran a Traction-Lok differential for Autocross, but had to change the clutch-packs occasionally. On my current rebuild, I originally installed a Detroit Locker in my Ford 9", but my project has taken so long to complete that the new torque sensing differentials came out in the mean time. I was told that when using the Locker in a performance situation, the sudden engagement and disengagement can upset the car. In addition, there is a disconcerting "clunk" when the Locker disengages. The torque sensing differentials seem to be widely recommended as superior in most situations.
I chose the Moser Engineering Wavetrac torque-sensing LSD even though it is more expensive because it has a lifetime warranty (regardless of your horsepower!) and it works under no-load conditions when one wheel has zero traction. Since a torque sensing differential multiplies the torque on the lower-traction driven wheel, when that wheel has zero-load, the typical torque-sensing differential provides no torque to the other wheel (because any number multiplied by zero is still zero). This would occur only in rare situations like very slick ice under one drive wheel, or when one wheel is completely off the ground as in rock crawling or track-curb jumping. Under no-load conditions, a typical torque-sensing LSD acts like an open differential, whereas the Wavetrac acts like a spool (both wheels rotate at the same speed). Wavetrac's are popular among the off-road crowd where the Locker is also still widely used.
Detroit Lockers built in the past 35 years are not like the originals in that they make no noise at all. They are utterly silent yet bulletproof. There are no clutches to wear out. They are available in 28, 31 and 35 spline. For your build I would use a 31 spline unit. 28 spline axles are easy to break even with a small block if you have more than 250 HP to the wheels.
There are still "H" series Detroit Lockers sold mostly to NASCAR and Dirt track racers. These are noisy like the original ones from the 1960's. Often for sale on eBay at very reasonable prices because NASCAR racers replace them every 500 miles. These are typically 31 spline or 35 spline.
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 08, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
I'm building a 9" axle for my GT350R tribute and remember hearing that the Detroit Locker used in the original cars is not a great option for a street car. Anybody got an informed opinion on the pros/cons of going with an aftermarket locker as opposed to the Ford Traction Lock that was used in other Shelby cars? I do hope to get the car on a road course now and then for some spirited driving but I won't be racing it competitively. Most miles will be on the street. Motor will be a 302 stroker so probably about 400 HP.
mlplunkett,
You can buy a NEW forged steel case traction lock in the low $300s on epay. This is a very quiet "clutch type" limited slip that will be fine for your use. IF you use the axles with C4OW on the end you will not break them until 400 wheel HP and on a drag strip with the traction lock. Use certainly can upgrade to a 31 spline axle as Royce wisely suggested. I had to switch about 30 years ago in my mid 11 second ( then) '66 Hertz car. I was fortunate enough to have a pair of genuine '65 A/FX Mustang axles ( 31 spline) and simply switched to a 31 spline locker at the same time. You will have to use an aftermarket axle to get 31 splines.
Next up would be the Gleason ( true track) and Auburn ( cone type) units . They are also quiet , smooth , and virtually trouble free , especially in a street / cornering application They are also available in 28 and 31 spline.
"My" last choice for the street is the Detroit Locker , especially with a manual trans. The inherent "play" in the internal gear mechanism produces a noticeable "clunk" when cornering and what road racers call the "locker lurch". Some use this action as a driving aid to set and upset the car when cornering . Others despise it. I have a locker in my automatic equipped drag car because I don't want a "spool" ( it has NO differential action) . Avoid H case lockers ( 31 and 35 spline only) as they require an aftermarket 3.250 bearing diameter aftermarket differential case which is not needed for your use. It is critical with a locker to maintain equal tire pressures and diameters or your car will "torque steer" or worse yet keep the unit engaging and disengaging as you are driving. "Some" of the modern units have an annoying "clicking" noise as they corner at low speeds. Just the thoughts of a guy who's done Ford diffs since '68 when I was factory trained.
The choice is up to you.
Randy
Been running an Auburn Pro in my 66 for ~20 years, completely satisfied.
Be a man, run a locker. Just make sure your rear tire pressures are even or it might throw you around a bit.
Quote from: 6s1802 on January 09, 2020, 12:56:30 AM
Be a man, run a locker. Just make sure your rear tire pressures are even or it might throw you around a bit.
If you are into S&M, self torture and mutilation a "Locker" is what you want.
These things are absolutely brutal on a street driven car and it is said that they were never run in NASCAR because if you for some inexplicable reason break an axle, you will spin the car.
I had one in my car for a week. There were several reasons it had to come out. First, I nearly got arrested because it spun the inside tire on a tight left hand turn in a Police directed emergency turn. The local PD can impound the car legal for "street racing" and take a very dim view of public displays of uncontrolled "acceleration".
I was only going like 5 mph, and this SOB spun the left rear tire, leaving rubber and squealing the whole way!
Next, I thought that I ran over a metal garbage can and broke the rear springs backing out of the garage. I don't need to induce additional paranoiac stresses.
Additionally, you will never get a passenger to ride in the car with you. They will jump out the window screaming that there is something wrong with this car (and obviously you too) and they don't want to die in a crate like that.
I've run the Ford traction-lok and it is much more then acceptable. It is true that it is not 100% efficient because it is a clutch unit and the left only gets about 50% of the power that it should but you couldn't prove that by me. The car lays down a very impressive set of skid marks and no one is going to do a scientific measurement of "power to the ground" measurements on them with the possible exception of the local PD as they prepare evidence against you for your day in court.
The True-track is probably going to be the smoothest and most civil unit you could run but with these cars, do you really want a civil pussy cat?
Bad information - the Detroit Lockers made in the past 35 or so years make no noise at all. Obviously you have not used one or rode in a car equipped with one. Nothing is felt driving on the street, going around corners or not. On loose soil, wet pavement or gravel you will sometimes notice the inside wheel skidding. The identical same thing happens with a Traction Lock that is not worn out, and other clutch type differentials until they wear out.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 08, 2020, 06:29:05 PM
mlplunkett,
You can buy a NEW forged steel case traction lock in the low $300s on epay. This is a very quiet "clutch type" limited slip that will be fine for your use. IF you use the axles with C4OW on the end you will not break them until 400 wheel HP and on a drag strip with the traction lock. Use certainly can upgrade to a 31 spline axle as Royce wisely suggested. I had to switch about 30 years ago in my mid 11 second ( then) '66 Hertz car. I was fortunate enough to have a pair of genuine '65 A/FX Mustang axles ( 31 spline) and simply switched to a 31 spline locker at the same time. You will have to use an aftermarket axle to get 31 splines.
Next up would be the Gleason ( true track) and Auburn ( cone type) units . They are also quiet , smooth , and virtually trouble free , especially in a street / cornering application They are also available in 28 and 31 spline.
"My" last choice for the street is the Detroit Locker , especially with a manual trans. The inherent "play" in the internal gear mechanism produces a noticeable "clunk" when cornering and what road racers call the "locker lurch". Some use this action as a driving aid to set and upset the car when cornering . Others despise it. I have a locker in my automatic equipped drag car because I don't want a "spool" ( it has NO differential action) . Avoid H case lockers ( 31 and 35 spline only) as they require an aftermarket 3.250 bearing diameter aftermarket differential case which is not needed for your use. It is critical with a locker to maintain equal tire pressures and diameters or your car will "torque steer" or worse yet keep the unit engaging and disengaging as you are driving. "Some" of the modern units have an annoying "clicking" noise as they corner at low speeds. Just the thoughts of a guy who's done Ford diffs since '68 when I was factory trained.
The choice is up to you.
Randy
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
Bad information - the Detroit Lockers made in the past 35 or so years make no noise at all. Obviously you have not used one or rode in a car equipped with one. Nothing is felt driving on the street, going around corners or not. On loose soil, wet pavement or gravel you will sometimes notice the inside wheel skidding. The identical same thing happens with a Traction Lock that is not worn out, and other clutch type differentials until they wear out.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 08, 2020, 06:29:05 PM
mlplunkett,
You can buy a NEW forged steel case traction lock in the low $300s on epay. This is a very quiet "clutch type" limited slip that will be fine for your use. IF you use the axles with C4OW on the end you will not break them until 400 wheel HP and on a drag strip with the traction lock. Use certainly can upgrade to a 31 spline axle as Royce wisely suggested. I had to switch about 30 years ago in my mid 11 second ( then) '66 Hertz car. I was fortunate enough to have a pair of genuine '65 A/FX Mustang axles ( 31 spline) and simply switched to a 31 spline locker at the same time. You will have to use an aftermarket axle to get 31 splines.
Next up would be the Gleason ( true track) and Auburn ( cone type) units . They are also quiet , smooth , and virtually trouble free , especially in a street / cornering application They are also available in 28 and 31 spline.
"My" last choice for the street is the Detroit Locker , especially with a manual trans. The inherent "play" in the internal gear mechanism produces a noticeable "clunk" when cornering and what road racers call the "locker lurch". Some use this action as a driving aid to set and upset the car when cornering . Others despise it. I have a locker in my automatic equipped drag car because I don't want a "spool" ( it has NO differential action) . Avoid H case lockers ( 31 and 35 spline only) as they require an aftermarket 3.250 bearing diameter aftermarket differential case which is not needed for your use. It is critical with a locker to maintain equal tire pressures and diameters or your car will "torque steer" or worse yet keep the unit engaging and disengaging as you are driving. "Some" of the modern units have an annoying "clicking" noise as they corner at low speeds. Just the thoughts of a guy who's done Ford diffs since '68 when I was factory trained.
The choice is up to you.
Randy
Well, if you are a know it all, WTF are you coming here and asking anyone for their opinions?
Go take your Locker, insert it, and have a wonderful time.
I would think though that if you were making an accurate tribute, then you would want to experience the real thing? Not some teenage virtual reality?
Royce YOU are WRONG. "Big spring" ( the kind you are referring to from the last 35 years) lockers CAN make a noise when cornering if they are not under load. Not EVERY one is "silent" regardless of what you say. I have owned and used several of them that made noise "out of the box". The noise is somewhat related to what springs are in the locker and the "clicking is more prevalent in those with softer springs as they disengage easier. I have changed springs to heavier ones ( yellow from Ford Motorsport) and greatly reduced the noise. YES they are FAR better than the '65 units without the "hold out rings" .
YOU may be lucky in having quiet operation lockers but your experience is not EVERYONE'S experience with a locker. Having one "snap" into locked condition when leaving a stop sign can be uncomfortable. I ran one in my car hauler that had a 14 bolt GM rear for ten years and experienced the "snap" hundreds of times. I eventually took it back out.
I respect your opinion and experience greatly but there are other experiences and opinions from others like me that is different than yours. Please respect that. If you want to argue with me please go to PMs.
Randy
I often get this sort of response from folks who knew a guy who had a trans camaro etc. I invite anyone in the Tulsa area to come try both a freshly rebuilt Traction Lock and a Detroit Locker. I have both. The difference is not evident.
At the risk of being burned down, I'll take a crack at this being that I had a 28 spline early 80s Ford Motorsport 4.11N case Detroit Locker in my 4225 pound with me in it '67 Fairlane 428 4 speed station wagon for 8 years. Do you know its back there compared to a traction lock? Yes. The way the car comes out of turns is a little different from a traction lock. I know that because I have a traction Lok differential in the car now with 3.89 gears. Does it make a lot of noise? The one in my car didn't really. Will the car make turns if you snap an axle? Yes. I know that because I snapped an axle one time when I dumped the clutch and the car wheel hopped badly. It snapped the left side axle right at the splines. Surprisingly though I was able to drive the car home with the broken axle. I had to take it very carefully because if I gave it a lot of gas accelerating the car, it wanted to make a left turn but I still made it home without a tow truck. The next day, I pulled the axle out, took a long magnet, pulled the broken piece out of the differential, installed another axle, and then called Dutchman axles and ordered a set of alloy 28 spline axles and haven't had that problem since. Why did I pull it out of the car? Because at the time I installed 3.25 gears so I can drive on the highway and turn 3000 rpm at 75mph. I put the 3.89 gears in because I could at least go 63 miles per hour at 3000 RPM as opposed to 56 miles an hour at 3000 RPM with the 4.11s. Would I put it back in? Yes. That's my humble opinion. Others may have different opinions.
I had a NASCAR locker in my 70 and it was brutal. I had a street version in a 64 Comet for years and it would make noise every now and then but was no big deal. I did notice it had more drive train slack when getting on/off the gas though. I took the NASCAR locker out and installed a torsion style instead. You don't even know it is there. I think for road racing the torsion will apply the power smoother in the turns over a locker. Why use old school technology when there is better stuff out there?
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
I often get this sort of response from folks who knew a guy who had a trans camaro etc. I invite anyone in the Tulsa area to come try both a freshly rebuilt Traction Lock and a Detroit Locker. I have both. The difference is not evident.
Royce I have LITERALLY installed over a thousand Detroit lockers and just as many traction locks. A Detroit Locker has FAR more "play" in it's internal gears than a traction lock ( none). That play is VERY noticeable when turning and getting off and on the gas as opposed to a traction lock because of that internal gear play. I don't need to go to the Tulsa area to experience that. I have cars with both in my driveway right now. You have your opinion and others have theirs. I don't see what "folks who knew a guy who had a trans camaro" has to do with anything. If you are referring to those with opinions that have never owned / driven a car with a locker , that is NOT me. I have installed Detroit Lockers in AMC, Chrysler , Ford, GM, and Toyotas. Their operation is all the same , just different packaging. Try all you want but you will never convince me there is no discernable difference between driving a car with a Traction lock and a Detroit Locker. This is NOT ANY kind of personal attack! My experience is simply different than yours.
Randy
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 08, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
I'm building a 9" axle for my GT350R tribute and remember hearing that the Detroit Locker used in the original cars is not a great option for a street car. Anybody got an informed opinion on the pros/cons of going with an aftermarket locker as opposed to the Ford Traction Lock that was used in other Shelby cars? I do hope to get the car on a road course now and then for some spirited driving but I won't be racing it competitively. Most miles will be on the street. Motor will be a 302 stroker so probably about 400 HP.
Try an Eaton Truetrac. I have one in one of my '66s that I drive quite a bit. I love it.
I have a Torsen in a Late model car. It is fantastic.
https://youtu.be/JEiSTzK-A2A
Has anyone used one in one of our older 9" rear Shelbys?
I know someone like me needs to vouch for Randy . I can however promise that he knows his stuff and he needs no Camaro driving neighbor to tell him what kind of a noise a locker might or might not make. I can also add that my DL is an newer big spring model and yes in the right spot it will make noise. Not saying that Royce's might not make noise , I'm just not that lucky. Having that said I cant say that I don't like the sound a little bit lol.
Mine was installed by me back in 1994. I've driven it maybe 35,000 miles since then, and because of it I also installed several others in various Mustangs and Cougars that I and others have owned since then.
The one in my GT-E has been to the Pure Stock Drags a few times. I drove the car from Cincinnati to Newport News once after I got a new job there. If it ever made a noise it was not memorable. It has been driven in the rain and was not a big deal then either. One thing for sure, it will hook up both rear tires on the slickest drag strip when you launch just as good today as it did back when I first installed it. The whole reason for installing it was that I could not keep rebuilding the Traction Lock every few months, it was too messy and expensive. The TL would last a few thousand miles and then become a one wheel open differential when the clutches wore out.
A couple years ago I installed a used "H" series DL that I bought on eBay in another GT-E that has since been sold. That DL acted just like the ones that some Drag Pac Boss Mustangs got back in 1970. It was wonderful. People across the parking lot at a car show would look confused, then come over and ask if I had just broken something in the rear end.
The big difference between a new DL and a new Traction Lock is that the Traction Lock will be worn out in a few thousand miles.
I have not used any of the other options mentioned. You will notice I only comment on things I know about. But if I ever need another new differential it will be a Detroit Locker.
Quote from: 428kid on January 10, 2020, 03:01:11 PM
I know someone like me needs to vouch for Randy . I can however promise that he knows his stuff and he needs no Camaro driving neighbor to tell him what kind of a noise a locker might or might not make. I can also add that my DL is an newer big spring model and yes in the right spot it will make noise. Not saying that Royce's might not make noise , I'm just not that lucky. Having that said I cant say that I don't like the sound a little bit lol.
I love the DL in my car and the "clunks" etc don't bother me at all. If it bothers others they can go F themselves.
And don't anyone take that as a personal attack either. I mean while I'm driving it etc.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 10, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Mine was installed by me back in 1994. I've driven it maybe 35,000 miles since then, and because of it I also installed several others in various Mustangs and Cougars that I and others have owned since then.
The one in my GT-E has been to the Pure Stock Drags a few times. I drove the car from Cincinnati to Newport News once after I got a new job there. If it ever made a noise it was not memorable. It has been driven in the rain and was not a big deal then either. One thing for sure, it will hook up both rear tires on the slickest drag strip when you launch just as good today as it did back when I first installed it. The whole reason for installing it was that I could not keep rebuilding the Traction Lock every few months, it was too messy and expensive. The TL would last a few thousand miles and then become a one wheel open differential when the clutches wore out.
A couple years ago I installed a used "H" series DL that I bought on eBay in another GT-E that has since been sold. That DL acted just like the ones that some Drag Pac Boss Mustangs got back in 1970. It was wonderful. People across the parking lot at a car show would look confused, then come over and ask if I had just broken something in the rear end.
The big difference between a new DL and a new Traction Lock is that the Traction Lock will be worn out in a few thousand miles.
I have not used any of the other options mentioned. You will notice I only comment on things I know about. But if I ever need another new differential it will be a Detroit Locker.
Quote from: 428kid on January 10, 2020, 03:01:11 PM
I know someone like me needs to vouch for Randy . I can however promise that he knows his stuff and he needs no Camaro driving neighbor to tell him what kind of a noise a locker might or might not make. I can also add that my DL is an newer big spring model and yes in the right spot it will make noise. Not saying that Royce's might not make noise , I'm just not that lucky. Having that said I cant say that I don't like the sound a little bit lol.
Yes sir DL all the way , where is my like button !
With all this DL love, looks like I should dig my Locker out of storage and put it in the sale section.
It's 25 years old and never been kissed!
Quote from: Jim Herrud on January 10, 2020, 06:27:42 PM
With all this DL love, looks like I should dig my Locker out of storage and put it in the sale section.
It's 25 years old and never been kissed!
Indeed
Here you go
(https://i.imgur.com/NdmZRPkh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fX8pCVTh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HO1ruPAh.jpg)
I have a Detroit Locker and a Gold-Trac and well as Traction-Loks. For road course, aggressive street driving you can not beat the torsen style limited slip differential. Smooth and does not upset the car when trail throttled. I love mine in my Shelby and even though expensive I highly recommend. My Detroit Locker is fine on the street, drives nice and is way better for the drag race starts. For what your goals are the Eaton Truetrac I would think is best.
When 843 was restored I requested a Detroit Locker and it was indicated it would be put in for a 3.50 rear end. When I finally got big red on the road I heard no clunking of any sort which disappointed me. I question whether there is a Detroit Locker in it and my question has therefore become: Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart? I suspect the latter. I also suspect it must be an open rear end therefore? The Detroit Locker seems highly durable even if used for the street??
Best,
Richard E.
My original 65 Detroit Locker didn't break. It fell apart. And my car was only 10 yrs old and hadn't had any abuse. Happened getting on the San Bernardino Fwy at Tyler 1975. Definitely wasn't cool. These things were Furnace Brazed 'together' with schlock quality. Useless. I posted pics of it on old forum, still got it here somewhere. I had another 'gen-one' which I ran for a while, then switched to a Traction-Loc which is still in the car, never a bit of trouble.
The Locker: Street driving a PIA. Slow u-turns were a fight until it clunked.
Its sitting on the shelf w my original T-10M-1. Another useless anachronism!!
I love the 1965 GT-350 and have had the pleasure of driving one almost my whole life, and I respect the purity of the concours cars, but many of the now-vaunted early parts simply didn't hack the load of hi-performance street, weekend racer duty.
There's a reason why radiators, fuel pumps, fans, intakes, M-1 transmissions, etc are now 'rare'....and it wasn't because they were good!
Quote from: deathsled on January 10, 2020, 09:31:21 PM
When 843 was restored I requested a Detroit Locker and it was indicated it would be put in for a 3.50 rear end. When I finally got big red on the road I heard no clunking of any sort which disappointed me. I question whether there is a Detroit Locker in it and my question has therefore become: Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart? I suspect the latter. I also suspect it must be an open rear end therefore? The Detroit Locker seems highly durable even if used for the street??
Best,
Richard E.
The DL will act as an open rear if you put the car up on stands and turn the wheels. It needs load on the tires to decide which side to lock the drive to.
As Randy said, you can mess around with the locking by changing the spring in the unit. The Ford Motorsport "racing" spring smooths out the engagement a lot.
SA put a warning decal in the glove box for a reason.
When I got stopped by the Cops for backing over the Police motorcycle and not stopping I had a heck of a time trying to explain the actions of the "Locker" and why I dismissed the noise?
I had to consent to being examined by the Police Psychiatrist. Cops would take turns coming to talk to me and kept staring into my eyes. Must have been part of their training? Something about "self reinforcing delusion"?
At least this time I didn't have to promise the Judge that I wouldn't hit anyone again as part of the settlement? :o
If the DL was installed at all it would have been some time in the year 1994 or 1995. Don't know there were Motorsport springs in that time frame? I mean the car rides fine and I have no complaints. But I like the idea of having something heavy duty bullet proof in the rear. Some here are saying they break up after a while. Maybe I should just leave as is. If it works don't fix it right?
+1 on the True Trac. I have one in my 69 GT350 behind ~550 hp (418W stroker), it works great!
I have lockers in a couple of cars and prefer the TrueTrac
Quote from: deathsled on January 11, 2020, 11:07:31 AM
If the DL was installed at all it would have been some time in the year 1994 or 1995. Don't know there were Motorsport springs in that time frame? I mean the car rides fine and I have no complaints. But I like the idea of having something heavy duty bullet proof in the rear. Some here are saying they break up after a while. Maybe I should just leave as is. If it works don't fix it right?
Sure they were. i still have one in the box new in the shop. They were in the catalog back in the '80s and folks have been playing with them since the '60s.
Absolutely leave it alone if you like it.
For me, more then the noises it was that it would wiggle the rear when you're on the car hard. The Traction-lok is much smoother but I can feel the loss of power when the left side is driving. That isn't my imagination but the combination of the two did throw me 1/2 a lane over when they lock up.
That combined with the violet bump steer were too much for me to deal with on the street. I didn't need all of the addition paranoia. The roads are tight here. You need to stay in your lane.
If anyone has any early model 28 spline small spring DL components, I would be interested in acquiring them.
I'd appreciate some help identifying my 31-spline Locker in preparation for selling it. Would this be an early-design standard unit? A later "Soft-Spring" unit? An Chinese Eaton knock-off?
I tried to educate myself using the internet. I found a number of good websites covering the Ford 9" and a bit about differentials and Lockers, but none that dig into this level of detail.
The cast-in number says "02833 M - 3". (Goofy looking "M")
There is what appears to be a date cast-in as well, but it is mostly machined away on the ring gear surface. The visible part shows the date as 4/1/82 or '83 (or maybe '92/'93?).
This unit was made on April Fools Day?!
There are two stamped numbers on the machined surfaces: "64530" and "64531".
The housing is machined, but when it was turned, only about 50-60% of the cast surface was removed. Does this indicate a level (or lack) of quality? Does this affect its resale value?
This DL was installed in '93 and removed in '16 before being used. Diff gear oil was never installed. Only the one axle bearing was still attached when I got the unit back from the axle shop.
Is this info useful to you Locker Gurus to help figure out what I've got?
I apologize if this is going too far afield of the original topic. Please feel free to move it to the appropriate section.
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It's a typical case. The difference is going to be internally like what spring is in it.
The bearings are tough to grip and get off so just leave it on unless it is bad.
All the castings are machined like that. I always thought that the stamped numbers are serial numbers.
Jim,
I'd say it's an earlier one, late 60's earlier to mid 70's. Looking at the as cast back side and partial machined with the two holes. Do they know how to make these in China?
Anyway, later versions (I bought 2 in the last 10 years) have 4 holes. The one in the photo are my 3:89's (gears have been lightened, polished, EDM etc) the set in my car are 3:64's. Just a touch deeper than 3:50's. These Lockers are from Tractech model 187S 13A 28 spline units. The only numbers I could find was stamped 70882. They do make noise, as in the classic "Ka-Bang!" occasionally but it's part of the GT350 experience, if you will.
They're relatively new and make noise as described for all the reasons mentioned above.
I took these photos a couple minutes ago and dated it today so you know I didn't swipe photos from the internet.
Cheers,
~Earl J
I don't know about Chinese versions. I was just concerned because I didn't buy this DL myself back in the '90s. I let my drive-line guy source it. After seeing the beautiful machine work on 1109RWHP's lightened Locker and my Moser Wavetrac and then comparing that to the rough casting on my DL, I was thinking I might have let my guy pull one over on me by buying a sub-par unit (assuming one exists). It's good to learn that this rough finish is not unusual or indicative of a poor-quality DL.
Here's a couple photos of my Moser Wavetrac. I'm often impressed with the machine work of many of these internal parts. They are works of art. It seems a shame to cover them up!
Thx to you and Doug for your input!
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/245-110120211030.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/245-110120211057.jpeg)
You can get more accurate information from Randy on your unit but it looks typical to me.
I've only done a few as this is Chevy country and I've only done Ford 9" rears.
I think that the casting date on it is not a '60s date. Looks like an 8 or 9 to me from the camera angle.
You need to consider that the reason SA used the DL in '65 was for product availability and initially the concept of the GT350 was a racing version of the Mustang.
They were given the project on a no notice basis and sourced as best they could in determining a final product configuration.
Certainly after deciding on the side exhausts with glass packs, a little banging here and there in the rear was hardly noticeable?
I think at the time the 5 clutch Ford Traction-lok was not available yet. It was the wimpy 3 disc version and that would not stand up to competition use at all.
In any case, yes, if you are building an accurate '65 "clone", the dated DL version is what you probably should use? It was too much of too much for me when I "tried one".
Knowing what is available now, there are other alternatives better suited to a car with A/C that I would consider?
Earl, why aren't you running an aluminum Strange housing? Saves 20 pounds and goes with your lightened gears more appropriately?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 12, 2020, 07:53:22 AM
Certainly after deciding on the side exhausts with glass packs, a little banging here and there in the rear was hardly noticeable?
Finally someone stating the obvious + solid lifters ^
I've had a locker for 40 years, yes you get the occasional bang at 40-50+ MPH as it locks and you look in the rear view expecting to see the rear end scattered all over the road and yes the car jerks a little but that and the clunking in reverse give the car character IMO. For a tribute, I guess it depends on how much you want to copy the original to get those quirks but there are obviously less dramatic options to stick both wheels to the ground
If "low noise" is the goal, there is always a Prius.
^^^^^
Prius Lol! Even the chosen name of that car sounds insignificant and suggestive of a one celled protozoan one might glance at under a microscope. Where do these manufacturers come up with these names??
I will look into a DL for my car if it doesn't already have it. There are none of the characteristics that have been described in this thread that I have noted. But I don't drive my car too hard.
Quote from: sg66 on January 12, 2020, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 12, 2020, 07:53:22 AM
Certainly after deciding on the side exhausts with glass packs, a little banging here and there in the rear was hardly noticeable?
Finally someone stating the obvious + solid lifters ^
I've had a locker for 40 years, yes you get the occasional bang at 40-50+ MPH as it locks and you look in the rear view expecting to see the rear end scattered all over the road and yes the car jerks a little but that and the clunking in reverse give the car character IMO. For a tribute, I guess it depends on how much you want to copy the original to get those quirks but there are obviously less dramatic options to stick both wheels to the ground
If "low noise" is the goal, there is always a Prius.
There is a scene in the film Jaws. In this scene you can clearly hear Captain Quint spewing all sorts of explatives and barking out orders.
This is the "Chiefs" wifes first exposure to Quint and standing with her husband, the "Chief", she asks, "is that Quint?" The Chief replies "yes, colorful isn't he?"
It's about the same comparison. The '65 GT350 is quite "colorful" and certainly part of it is the locker. ;)
Would you have it any other way? ;D
The 28 spline Detroit Locker was used in the '65 Shelby because it had a 4 pinion differential and it worked for an entire race. The 2 pinion Equa Lock was all that Ford had back then. The 4 pinion Traction Lock was introduced for the '68 model year in the GT350 and GT500. While it was a major improvement over the Equa Lock it still only lasted a few thousand miles on the street.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 12, 2020, 07:53:22 AM
I think at the time the 5 clutch Ford Traction-lok was not available yet. It was the wimpy 3 disc version and that would not stand up to competition use at all.
In any case, yes, if you are building an accurate '65 "clone", the dated DL version is what you probably should use? It was too much of too much for me when I "tried one".
Knowing what is available now, there are other alternatives better suited to a car with A/C that I would consider?
Earl, why aren't you running an aluminum Strange housing? Saves 20 pounds and goes with your lightened gears more appropriately?
Detroit Locker in action...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNGnNHPzipU
Short explanation of locker...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4Tba7gUC4
Aussie locker noise...this one seems to illustrate best, the sound...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF6tJvzlT7U
And a diff opened up with one that has issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctaQ90tUkk
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 09, 2020, 09:44:25 AM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
Bad information - the Detroit Lockers made in the past 35 or so years make no noise at all. Obviously you have not used one or rode in a car equipped with one. Nothing is felt driving on the street, going around corners or not. On loose soil, wet pavement or gravel you will sometimes notice the inside wheel skidding. The identical same thing happens with a Traction Lock that is not worn out, and other clutch type differentials until they wear out.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 08, 2020, 06:29:05 PM
mlplunkett,
You can buy a NEW forged steel case traction lock in the low $300s on epay. This is a very quiet "clutch type" limited slip that will be fine for your use. IF you use the axles with C4OW on the end you will not break them until 400 wheel HP and on a drag strip with the traction lock. Use certainly can upgrade to a 31 spline axle as Royce wisely suggested. I had to switch about 30 years ago in my mid 11 second ( then) '66 Hertz car. I was fortunate enough to have a pair of genuine '65 A/FX Mustang axles ( 31 spline) and simply switched to a 31 spline locker at the same time. You will have to use an aftermarket axle to get 31 splines.
Next up would be the Gleason ( true track) and Auburn ( cone type) units . They are also quiet , smooth , and virtually trouble free , especially in a street / cornering application They are also available in 28 and 31 spline.
"My" last choice for the street is the Detroit Locker , especially with a manual trans. The inherent "play" in the internal gear mechanism produces a noticeable "clunk" when cornering and what road racers call the "locker lurch". Some use this action as a driving aid to set and upset the car when cornering . Others despise it. I have a locker in my automatic equipped drag car because I don't want a "spool" ( it has NO differential action) . Avoid H case lockers ( 31 and 35 spline only) as they require an aftermarket 3.250 bearing diameter aftermarket differential case which is not needed for your use. It is critical with a locker to maintain equal tire pressures and diameters or your car will "torque steer" or worse yet keep the unit engaging and disengaging as you are driving. "Some" of the modern units have an annoying "clicking" noise as they corner at low speeds. Just the thoughts of a guy who's done Ford diffs since '68 when I was factory trained.
The choice is up to you.
Randy
Well, if you are a know it all, WTF are you coming here and asking anyone for their opinions?
Go take your Locker, insert it, and have a wonderful time.
I would think though that if you were making an accurate tribute, then you would want to experience the real thing? Not some teenage virtual reality?
Woah big fella, not sure who you're blasting here. I'm the one that asked for opinions but, just to be clear, none of these are my comments so I hope you're not calling me the know it all.
I have a Detroit Locker in my Shelby as well. It makes a few noises on occasion and tends to "drag" one tire a bit in turns but nothing annoying enough to be problematic. The one quirk, if you will is a low speed roll out in first and a quick shift to second and hitting it a bit. The car squats down, front end comes up and the rear pushes right. Even with 255 tires in the rear there is no chance of traction. The up side is they are solid.
-Keith
Wow , lot's of things flying around here!
First ,
The Detroit locker was "chosen" by SAI ( Chuck Cantwell ) because it was the most durable unit available "at the time". The two and four spider Equalock was a joke , and the early Gleason ( worm gear) unit broke the case often, leaving the reliable Detroit Automotive Products "no spin". Ford had them in their inventory so it was easy to "build" a special axle assembly that included the 2-1/2 wide metallic brake shoes , and send them to the San Jose assembly plant.
Second,
The DL doesn't have "spider gears" like a conventional , Equalock , or traction lock. It is a spring loaded , "ramp and dog" gear engagement unit. When the "bias"( cornering) overcomes the spring pressure keeping the gears engaged , the unit "ratchets" until the axle speed difference equalizes and the gears "lock" again. This is why throttle application in a turn can lock and unlock the gears. The DL unit has allot of internal gear movement or "play" that must be there for the unit to function. That play can cause noise when cornering . "Some" have an audible "clicking" noise while the unit is "ratcheting" , others are quiet. Common failures are "spun " carrier bearings ( usually on the "cover") and a broken bearing hub on the same side. Rarely the early "small spring" ('63-75 approx) 28 spline side gears crack or shatter usually after the driver's side axle breaks. The early "small spring" 31 spline side gears are designed differently and I have not seen one fail yet. "Modern" units with the big spring and 28 splines have a redesigned side gear and do not fail. The only lingering problem is spun bearings ( occasionally).
Randy
I have no knowledge or experience with a locker made in China.
Jim ,
The locker you have is from the time where the springs were in question. Older Ford Motorsport catalogs use to show the date which had "the wrong" springs in them. I don't have one in front of me to tell you how to ID it.
Randy
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 13, 2020, 02:53:27 AM
I have a Detroit Locker in my Shelby as well. It makes a few noises on occasion and tends to "drag" one tire a bit in turns but nothing annoying enough to be problematic. The one quirk, if you will is a low speed roll out in first and a quick shift to second and hitting it a bit. The car squats down, front end comes up and the rear pushes right. Even with 255 tires in the rear there is no chance of traction. The up side is they are solid.
-Keith
That sounds scary and thrilling at the same time. And that is what Shelbys are. I wouldn't ever trade in the times I've had in mine.
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?
28 for 65/66 . 31 axles are bigger in diameter
Quote from: deathsled on January 13, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?
The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
Randy
10 to low 11 seconds is pretty damned fast. I baby my car along. I don't do burnouts or anything like that. Just spirited driving with quick but smooth pullaways. Like Vin Diesel might say...granny shifting along the way. I do like the idea of heavy duty items on a car even when their strength isn't tested. The Detroit Locker has me sufficiently interested. I don't believe mine has one but maybe in the future.
Thanks for the info gentlemen. It was also interesting to see the pics on how they look and the videos helped on how they work.
I really enjoy the dependability of my Detroit Locker in my race car. I have at least ten set up with various ratios . I am currently using the 5.29 gear set. The traction lock is NOT a good road "race" unit as Royce mentioned. The heat generated by the clutch discs REALLY heats up the oil not to mention all of the clutch material going through the gears and bearings. For real corner RACING the True track , Wave lock, Gold track , and similar "worm gear" units are the smoothest. These are NOT at home on the drag strip. It all boils down to a person's driving style when it comes to cornering and the track being raced on. Some drivers like Dan Gurney(rip) was faster with a "locked" ( read broken ) very high end ( read $2500 in '69 money)Wiseman locker in the Shelby T/A Team car at Laguna Seca in '69. A crew member discovered the car was "dragging" a tire in the pits. Changing to a "working" unit slowed his subsequent lap times by a second and a half! This is obviously why people a so passionate about the style of traction device THEY like. Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
The choice is up to you in the end.
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on January 13, 2020, 05:34:41 PM
Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
The choice is up to you in the end.
Randy
Technically yes, it's my choice BUT the local PD considers spinning tires a racing offense and they impound cars for that here.
The locker spins the inside tires very antagonistically even at like 5mph. That nearly got me arrested.
When the Traction-lok goes a Tru-trac is probably the way to go. I have heard though that they have issues with high HP engines? I'll investigate that at the appropriate time.
O.K., here's another individual's opine on the subject. ::)
The Detroit Locker, not something manufactured overseas almost copy for less (as in the Jeep video, a real piece of.........), has proven to be the strongest, least prone to failure, "differential" device one can utilize, the only unit, that when both tires are spinning, both tires are spinning at the same R.P.M.; and the only thing stronger is a "spool", period!
Note that as stated by Randy, "Worm-Gear" units are not good drag race applications, and are not as strong and do wear, causing a loss of effectiveness, and even, as observed, apparently when heated (over-heated?) from functioning, an odd occurrence of individual wheel "locking", causing an upsetting re-directional torque steering effect! :o
It is an old school ratchet mechanism originally designed for heavy truck use where "friction" type units prove ineffective and unreliable, and therefore suffers some in the N.V.H. department so highly regarded in today's automotive engineering endeavors, but hey, that's part of the fun of old cars, right! 8)
B.T.W., the Detroit Locker is not (if functioning properly) dragging the inside tire around in a turn, but rather the outside wheel has "unlocked" and is ratcheting ahead of the inside of the turn wheel (this will produce the ratcheting clicking noise, but this is not obtrusive), so now 100% of the torque is applied to this tire and it spins (if a concern, driver control required). Now, the "big-bang" happens when this slipping/spinning inside wheel catches up to the R.P.M. of the outside wheel which then "re-locks", as either (only one at a time) may turn faster, but neither may turn slower than the ring gear, the torque is now split between the two tires, their mass and their grip, torque now being supplied to the outside wheel, and a torque applied loss to the inside wheel which now stops slipping/spinning, not enough torque/power being supplied to spin both tires, so one experiences the "BIG-BANG", which by the way is not from the locker, but rather a culmination of the movement induced upon the surrounding components of the axle assembly, suspension and even the body work in it's function.
With the above in mind, one can understand the possible polar opinions on the the driveability of Detroit's, as if one enters turns on trailing throttle, applying throttle mid-turn with any power sum to cause the inside tire to spin, then one receives the experience of the "Locker-Lurch"; but in my opinion and experience, if one "drives" thru the turn under throttle (the way I prefer, as if the rear tires aren't chasing the fronts, then you ain't trying), then although the differential in tire rotation versus distance is coped with by tire slippage, the control is far more calculable. This is one reason why "Roundy-Rounders" will run spools and stagger tire sizes. I have also driven several of my vehicles with locked differentials (even my F350 4 X 4 was equipped with "Lincoln-Lockers" ::) ) as daily drivers, and granted tire wear is unappreciated, and extra care in the rain prudent (I am in Florida), but for aggressive, wanting to "throw- it-around" driving style it works! ;)
So in conclusion, if "correct" one runs the Detroit Locker, it-is-what-it-is, and it-is-what-its'-suppose-to-be, ...........be a "MAN"; otherwise, choose one of the other.............. "softer", "gentler", "kinder" differentials,............. and you won't get your knickers in bind!
B.T.W., easy on the rock throwing, I bruise easily. ::)
Scott.
Interesting dissertation on Detroit Lockers Scott and thank you. I'm going to look into it. The R Models has Detroit Lockers didn't they and the cleaned up at the tracks of I am not mistaken. Three years B production champions. Right? And the U.S. is the biggest racetrack in the world. (Kidding. I observe all posted speed limits. I observe them through my windshield and that's about it.)
Quote from: deathsled on January 10, 2020, 09:31:21 PM
Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart?
Best,
Richard E.
Sorry, I didn't respond to your inquiry in my previous post; but the answer is yes!
Lift one (only one) of the rear tire/wheel off the ground, turn it rearward, it will stop, then with a quick snap and reasonable force rotate it forward direction (sometimes you kinda need to bounce it off the reverse stop), this should, aided with the inertia of the mass, cause the ratchet to open allowing the wheel to be rotated forward ahead of the ring gear and D.L. case, with the click, click, click, clicking sound as the side gear cams. This may require a couple of attempts as it does require the right touch if the unit just fails to cooperate. Then reverse the rotation, and the unit should re-lock.........."CLUNK" Only the Detroit does this, so if it does............ and you don't have one...........then something is F.U.! ;)
Scott.
QuoteI have no knowledge or experience with a locker made in China.
Jim ,
The locker you have is from the time where the springs were in question. Older Ford Motorsport catalogs use to show the date which had "the wrong" springs in them. I don't have one in front of me to tell you how to ID it.
Randy
According to the 92 Motorsport catalog Randy mentioned: all motorsport lockers built after Nov. 15, 1990 have the heavy duty spring (72lbs vs 58lbs). Lockers are dated date - # /month - letter/ year-#. example - 16 M 91 would be December 16, 1991
Mike
Quote from: pbf777 on January 14, 2020, 08:18:29 PM
Quote from: deathsled on January 10, 2020, 09:31:21 PM
Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart?
Best,
Richard E.
Sorry, I didn't respond to your inquiry in my previous post; but the answer is yes!
Lift one (only one) of the rear tire/wheel off the ground, turn it rearward, it will stop, then with a quick snap and reasonable force rotate it forward direction (sometimes you kinda need to bounce it off the reverse stop), this should, aided with the inertia of the mass, cause the ratchet to open allowing the wheel to be rotated forward ahead of the ring gear and D.L. case, with the click, click, click, clicking sound as the side gear cams. This may require a couple of attempts as it does require the right touch if the unit just fails to cooperate. Then reverse the rotation, and the unit should re-lock.........."CLUNK" Only the Detroit does this, so if it does............ and you don't have one...........then something is F.U.! ;)
Scott.
Thank you Scott. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. Intellectual curiosity..
Thanks Mike ! Saved me looking it up.
Randy
Anybody familiar with the Richmond helical gear posi units? They are physically smaller than the true trac so naturally I wonder about strength. I'm thinking, maybe incorrectly, that even a healthy small block wouldn't put huge stress on the rear end in something as light as a stripped down 65 (R Model).
When you get serious you'll need a spool. My 1997 Mustang TA/GT1 track day toy. Being finished with a 67 TA tribute look.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on January 15, 2021, 11:21:02 AM
When you get serious you'll need a spool.
Before the Detroit Locker, if one was truly "serious" then a popular option was the "Lincoln-Locker"; then the commercially available spool appeared in the market place.
These "locked" & "locking" type units (this versus others better described as "slipping" units) benefit from a more aggressive driving style where the tire absorbs a greater responsibility proving slip in concert with the differential for more acceptable results; and this is anticipated in racing applications :)
Scott.
My personal opinion for what its worth, is that the only real option for a real 65 GT350 is a real 28-spline locker.
By the way, Randy, you ever decide to let the locker you have squirreled away go the a new home?
No not yet.
Quote from: pbf777 on January 15, 2021, 12:30:27 PM
These "locked" & "locking" type units (this versus others better described as "slipping" units) benefit from a more aggressive driving style where the tire absorbs a greater responsibility proving slip in concert with the differential for more acceptable results; and this is anticipated in racing applications :)
Sometimes the tires don't slip enough. When the car was build he put in the lighter drilled axles. Second outing at Laguna Seca and it snapped one making the left hander into the corkscrew. Now it's got the solid NASCAR axles in it.
Actually no, the Detroit Locker doesn't spin any tire at 5MPH or at any MPH while turning. You are simply mistaken.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 13, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on January 13, 2020, 05:34:41 PM
Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
The choice is up to you in the end.
Randy
Technically yes, it's my choice BUT the local PD considers spinning tires a racing offense and they impound cars for that here.
The locker spins the inside tires very antagonistically even at like 5mph. That nearly got me arrested.
When the Traction-lok goes a Tru-trac is probably the way to go. I have heard though that they have issues with high HP engines? I'll investigate that at the appropriate time.
I had a friend named Ruben Lopez (RIP) who raced SCCA autocross driving a 1967 Cougar with a very warm Boss 351 (real not imagined) four speed top loader close ratio box and 9 inch rear with 28 spline Detroit H series locker. Ruben sold me his race car when he was tired of it in the mid 1990's and I parted it out. Both of the 28 spline axles were twisted in the splined area as much as 90 degrees!
The H series DL's are very much like the OEM Detroit Lockers Ford used in the 1960's. They make a glorious, wonderful noise going around corners much like a roller coaster ratcheting up a hill.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 13, 2020, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: deathsled on January 13, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?
The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
Randy
^^
I like that roller coaster reference Royce!
And I love my Locker.
Right on!
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 15, 2021, 03:33:05 PM
I had a friend named Ruben Lopez (RIP) who raced SCCA autocross driving a 1967 Cougar with a very warm Boss 351 (real not imagined) four speed top loader close ratio box and 9 inch rear with 28 spline Detroit H series locker. Ruben sold me his race car when he was tired of it in the mid 1990's and I parted it out. Both of the 28 spline axles were twisted in the splined area as much as 90 degrees!
The H series DL's are very much like the OEM Detroit Lockers Ford used in the 1960's. They make a glorious, wonderful noise going around corners much like a roller coaster ratcheting up a hill.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 13, 2020, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: deathsled on January 13, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?
The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
Randy
I thought I drove over a Police motorcycle? It buffed out though? ::)
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on January 15, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Sometimes the tires don't slip enough. When the car was build he put in the lighter drilled axles. Second outing at Laguna Seca and it snapped one making the left hander into the corkscrew. Now it's got the solid NASCAR axles in it.
And, with "Locking" or "Locked" type units the axles, each individually, must be capable of the full torque capacity transmitted from the drivetrain, to the total capability of the traction of the singular tire which may present traction, as these units will provide either a 50/50 division or 100/0 torque transfer to which ever tire/wheel resists motion.
Hence, any of these being utilized will in the advent of one axle failure transmit 100% torque to the remaining intact axle (up to the limitation of tire to road surface traction) and this will general create a torque-steer phenomenon unless the remaining axle instantly fails from the overload. This not being so prevalent in the "slipping" differential units because despite the claims of their ability to "transfer torque to the wheel with traction", they are truly only "resistance" to the differential action, and generally the "friendlier" they may present themselves, the less capable the prove to be. ;)
On the torque steer phenomenon, I had an F350 4 X 4 P.U. I used to off-road regularly, and a broken axle was common enough we would often even carry a spare to change-out in the field so to speak. I had "Lincoln-Lockers" facilitated front and rear in this truck, and when it would break the rear driving axle, the advantage to the 4 X 4 (and the "full-floating" axle assembly) was one would just engage (lock-in) the front axle and drive home, no wrecker required, but with the "locked" front axle one could not steer the truck with both axles locked-in on hard pavement, so I would just lock-in one side driving with a one wheel drive on the front steer axle of a four wheeled vehicle. This worked fine with "very" progressive application of the throttle for acceleration or deceleration function, but if abrupt the truck went left or right, like it or not, depending on which: accel or decel and which one axle was locked-in! :o
And this driving challenge would general be at the end of the day, with the beer cooler being nearly empty (remember always take more supplies out into the field then you'll need)! ::)
Scott.
I sold a 65 GT350 to a guy who was clueless about 65 Shelby's .He had several modern Ferraris , Porsche etc. when he got the car home and drove it a little he called all upset because he said the rear end was broken. He said it made all kinds of noise going around a corner and so he took it to his high end mechanic who immediately pronounced it broke. I had to use great restraint to explain to them both that it was normal for that old technology competition locker to make noise without sounding condescending. I don't know if they believed me . I heard later he changed out the rear end for something quieter. He also complained of how loud it was. I got the impression he only bought the car for bragging rights because I got the impression that he didn't like to drive it.
And, if you think a Detroit Locker mounted in a passenger car makes a loud noise, you should hear the noise made with the Detroit Lockers mounted in my M813 5 ton 6 X 6 army truck; that's with the dual rear drive axles and no inter-axle differential,...........everything is bigger, a lot bigger, (each axle assy. weighs more than any Mustang) including the "KA-POW" :o
Scott.
I believe you need to figure what type of driving you are going to be doing. Best all around would be the locker , best Drag Race rear end would be a spool, best street fart around driving would be the less expensive clutch pack units. I for one just love the very loud popping cracking and lurching of the locker in my performance cars or race cars. I dont want that action when I am driving around all day with a daily driver type car, my 66 coupe that has a 3.25 trac loc and is very tame for all around usage. Just my experience with different rear end types.
There is more then one religious group that believes in self-flagellation. Why should the "Shelby people" be any different? ::)