I did a search but found nothing on this.... but my question is..... I have read somewhere guys remove, or just don't connect their ammeter wiring harness for fear of an electrical problem.... or fire ?
Is this true, and can someone enlighten me prior to me hooking mine back up on my GT-350 ?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Fake news
Not necessary to remove the wiring
The second version junction block that was used (the black Ford/Lincoln part which was used on the majority of cars - 95%) are the better version and are much safer. Just make sure all the wires and sheathing and connections are in good condition.
Here's the wiring diagram from Branda, also an image of the black Ford part. The black Ford part is reproduced.
The early Gray part that was used on very early cars (note the insulator that should be there between the back of the part and the inner fender panel - missing most of the time). Also, on some of the very early cars both wires were RED they fixed that issue.
The grey piece shown in your photos is an aircraft terminal block from the 1960's. Not too surprising given the location of Shelby's facility in 1967.
I've seen them with two, three, four, and maybe as many as ten terminal mounting points. I never have seen a single terminal version like that but don't see why one could not have come from the same group of manufacturers. They became outdated by the mid 1970's. Most of the aircraft that used those have been scrapped long ago. Older aircraft like the Boing 727 and even early 737's and 747's had dozens and dozens of them behind removable panels in the cockpit overheads.
Quote from: JD on January 15, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
The second version junction block that was used (the black Ford/Lincoln part which was used on the majority of cars - 95%) are the better version and are much safer. Just make sure all the wires and sheathing and connections are in good condition.
Here's the wiring diagram from Branda, also an image of the black Ford part. The black Ford part is reproduced.
The early Gray part that was used on very early cars (note the insulator that should be there between the back of the part and the inner fender panel - missing most of the time). Also, on some of the very early cars both wires were RED they fixed that issue.
Thanks guys.... mine is the second FLM version.
BG
Is there a nice diagram of the ammeter end of this circuit?
Does the under dash pod present any problems with being disassembled?
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 15, 2020, 05:31:16 PM
The grey piece shown in your photos is an aircraft terminal block from the 1960's. Not too surprising given the location of Shelby's facility in 1967.
I've seen them with two, three, four, and maybe as many as ten terminal mounting points. I never have seen a single terminal version like that but don't see why one could not have come from the same group of manufacturers. They became outdated by the mid 1970's. Most of the aircraft that used those have been scrapped long ago. Older aircraft like the Boing 727 and even early 737's and 747's had dozens and dozens of them behind removable panels in the cockpit overheads.
Quote from: JD on January 15, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
The second version junction block that was used (the black Ford/Lincoln part which was used on the majority of cars - 95%) are the better version and are much safer. Just make sure all the wires and sheathing and connections are in good condition.
Here's the wiring diagram from Branda, also an image of the black Ford part. The black Ford part is reproduced.
The early Gray part that was used on very early cars (note the insulator that should be there between the back of the part and the inner fender panel - missing most of the time). Also, on some of the very early cars both wires were RED they fixed that issue.
Royce:
The gray single terminal aircraft junction block was reproduced/ acquired from old stock and sold on Ebay a few years back. I haven't seen one in a while for sale.
What carrier did you work for? KDFW, KAFW, KTUL?
-Keith
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 15, 2020, 05:31:16 PM
The grey piece shown in your photos is an aircraft terminal block from the 1960's. Not too surprising given the location of Shelby's facility in 1967.
I've seen them with two, three, four, and maybe as many as ten terminal mounting points. I never have seen a single terminal version like that but don't see why one could not have come from the same group of manufacturers. They became outdated by the mid 1970's. Most of the aircraft that used those have been scrapped long ago. Older aircraft like the Boing 727 and even early 737's and 747's had dozens and dozens of them behind removable panels in the cockpit overheads.
Yes, the "top" edge has cut marks where they were separated from the others.
One of our SAAC guys had some reproduced, about 10 or more years ago, not sure if any are available. Don't know if the one Keith saw was one of these or from another source.
JD:
It is quite possible that was where they came from. I noted them on Ebay. As a matter of fact, I have only seen two early vehicles that still retained them.
When I first started collecting factory parts for my restoration I wasn't sure what I should actually have at the time.
The first vehicle I saw one on was what I remember as car 33 which was a green car with a Paxton supercharger I saw at the Yellow Rose in FT Worth years ago.
I am not absolutely sure it was 0033. However, It was a slant grill vehicle with the odd clamp bracketry to retain the inboards.
-Keith
I spent my career working on corporate jet aircraft / avionics. Those same terminal blocks were used in everything from Lockheed Jetstars to Gulfstream GI / GII / GIII on up to the heavy iron airliners which are much more common. Most of my career was working in DAL / or around the world at various places where one would need repairs at an airport.
I bet you could find more of those in one of the aircraft salvage places around LGB.
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 15, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 15, 2020, 05:31:16 PM
The grey piece shown in your photos is an aircraft terminal block from the 1960's. Not too surprising given the location of Shelby's facility in 1967.
I've seen them with two, three, four, and maybe as many as ten terminal mounting points. I never have seen a single terminal version like that but don't see why one could not have come from the same group of manufacturers. They became outdated by the mid 1970's. Most of the aircraft that used those have been scrapped long ago. Older aircraft like the Boing 727 and even early 737's and 747's had dozens and dozens of them behind removable panels in the cockpit overheads.
Quote from: JD on January 15, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
The second version junction block that was used (the black Ford/Lincoln part which was used on the majority of cars - 95%) are the better version and are much safer. Just make sure all the wires and sheathing and connections are in good condition.
Here's the wiring diagram from Branda, also an image of the black Ford part. The black Ford part is reproduced.
The early Gray part that was used on very early cars (note the insulator that should be there between the back of the part and the inner fender panel - missing most of the time). Also, on some of the very early cars both wires were RED they fixed that issue.
Royce:
The gray single terminal aircraft junction block was reproduced/ acquired from old stock and sold on Ebay a few years back. I haven't seen one in a while for sale.
What carrier did you work for? KDFW, KAFW, KTUL?
-Keith
I reproduced the gray terminal blocks and have a few left.
Dave
dmathews@prodigy.net
Car #23 still has the early style junction block.
Quote from: rmarble57 on January 17, 2020, 03:13:00 PM
Car #23 still has the early style junction block.
Make sure the circuit board insulating wafer is underneath the terminal block or you could easily have a catastrophic electrical fire!!!
Just in case anyone wants to make their own terminal block the Mil - Spec part number is MS27212-X-N
Where X = Diameter of the studs (terminals) on the block.
Possibilities:
MS27212-1-N = 6/32 UNC-2A
MS27212-2-N = 10/32 UNF-2A
MS27212-3-N = 1/4 -28 UNF-2A
MS27212-4-N = 5/16 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-5-N = 3/8 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-6-N = 8/32 UNC-2A
Where N = Number of studs on the terminal block
From the photos it appears to be MS27212-4-N (5/16-24 stud size). You could use any dash number, the parts installed by Shelby American appear to be made only from the ends of a T-block. So regardless of the length of the T - block you would only get two usable parts that were like originals.
Royce - THANKS for the photo!!
Yes #23 has an insulator behind the terminal block.
Thanks for the tip however.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 18, 2020, 09:10:57 AM
Just in case anyone wants to make their own terminal block the Mil - Spec part number is MS27212-X-N
Where X = Diameter of the studs (terminals) on the block.
Possibilities:
MS27212-1-N = 6/32 UNC-2A
MS27212-2-N = 10/32 UNF-2A
MS27212-3-N = 1/4 -28 UNF-2A
MS27212-4-N = 5/16 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-5-N = 3/8 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-6-N = 8/32 UNC-2A
Where N = Number of studs on the terminal block
From the photos it appears to be MS27212-4-N (5/16-24 stud size). You could use any dash number, the parts installed by Shelby American appear to be made only from the ends of a T-block. So regardless of the length of the T - block you would only get two usable parts that were like originals.
Wow Royce, that was impressive. I was able to find one immediately on ebay. Do you have any idea who manufactured the shoulder harness retractors on '67s?
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 18, 2020, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 18, 2020, 09:10:57 AM
Just in case anyone wants to make their own terminal block the Mil - Spec part number is MS27212-X-N
Where X = Diameter of the studs (terminals) on the block.
Possibilities:
MS27212-1-N = 6/32 UNC-2A
MS27212-2-N = 10/32 UNF-2A
MS27212-3-N = 1/4 -28 UNF-2A
MS27212-4-N = 5/16 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-5-N = 3/8 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-6-N = 8/32 UNC-2A
Where N = Number of studs on the terminal block
From the photos it appears to be MS27212-4-N (5/16-24 stud size). You could use any dash number, the parts installed by Shelby American appear to be made only from the ends of a T-block. So regardless of the length of the T - block you would only get two usable parts that were like originals.
Wow Royce, that was impressive. I was able to find one immediately on ebay. Do you have any idea who manufactured the shoulder harness retractors on '67s?
+1
Guys,
Is there anything particular with the second or later variant, that I need to be aware of when hooking mine back up ?
Thanks again,
Bob
Might be able to figure it out if you have pictures, especially if they show any cartouche mark of the maker.
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 18, 2020, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 18, 2020, 09:10:57 AM
Just in case anyone wants to make their own terminal block the Mil - Spec part number is MS27212-X-N
Where X = Diameter of the studs (terminals) on the block.
Possibilities:
MS27212-1-N = 6/32 UNC-2A
MS27212-2-N = 10/32 UNF-2A
MS27212-3-N = 1/4 -28 UNF-2A
MS27212-4-N = 5/16 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-5-N = 3/8 - 24 UNF-2A
MS27212-6-N = 8/32 UNC-2A
Where N = Number of studs on the terminal block
From the photos it appears to be MS27212-4-N (5/16-24 stud size). You could use any dash number, the parts installed by Shelby American appear to be made only from the ends of a T-block. So regardless of the length of the T - block you would only get two usable parts that were like originals.
Wow Royce, that was impressive. I was able to find one immediately on ebay. Do you have any idea who manufactured the shoulder harness retractors on '67s?
Quote from: oldcanuck on January 19, 2020, 08:08:13 AM
Guys,
Is there anything particular with the second or later variant, that I need to be aware of when hooking mine back up ?
Thanks again,
Bob
Does the first illustration in reply #2 help?
Quote from: JD on January 19, 2020, 11:14:58 AM
Quote from: oldcanuck on January 19, 2020, 08:08:13 AM
Guys,
Is there anything particular with the second or later variant, that I need to be aware of when hooking mine back up ?
Thanks again,
Bob
Does the first illustration in reply #2 help?
Yes ..... perfectly.
Is there a certain type of insulator that was used? Anyone make them?
It appears to be 1/32" phenolic sheet, as would have been the case if you could find the Mil - spec unit new in the box. You can buy phenolic sheet under various trade names like Garolite for example:
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets
Quote from: csheff on January 20, 2020, 08:05:23 AM
Is there a certain type of insulator that was used? Anyone make them?
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 20, 2020, 10:38:20 AM
It appears to be 1/32" phenolic sheet, as would have been the case if you could find the Mil - spec unit new in the box. You can buy phenolic sheet under various trade names like Garolite for example:
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets
Quote from: csheff on January 20, 2020, 08:05:23 AM
Is there a certain type of insulator that was used? Anyone make them?
The https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets examples don't look like the insulator that Shelby used. It was more like a thin piece of circuit board looking material. At least that is what it looks like to me.
Bob, circuit boards usually were / are made on phenolic / foil sheet. Phenolic runs in various hues depending on batch and grade. It tends to darken as it ages, much like bare wood.
There were cheap transistor radios with plastic circuit boards molded in every imaginable color. Those are not phenolic.
Another source of phenolic sheet is https://www.amazon.com/Online-Plastic-Supply-Phenolic-inches/dp/B081VR42MG/ref=sr_1_25?hvadid=78271487894049&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=phenolic+sheet&qid=1579623720&sr=8-25
There are many grades and colors of phenolic from creamy white to tan to brown to black.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2020, 06:30:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 20, 2020, 10:38:20 AM
It appears to be 1/32" phenolic sheet, as would have been the case if you could find the Mil - spec unit new in the box. You can buy phenolic sheet under various trade names like Garolite for example:
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets
Quote from: csheff on January 20, 2020, 08:05:23 AM
Is there a certain type of insulator that was used? Anyone make them?
The https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets examples don't look like the insulator that Shelby used. It was more like a thin piece of circuit board looking material. At least that is what it looks like to me.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 21, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
Bob, circuit boards usually were / are made on phenolic / foil sheet. Phenolic runs in various hues depending on batch and grade. It tends to darken as it ages, much like bare wood.
There were cheap transistor radios with plastic circuit boards molded in every imaginable color. Those are not phenolic.
Another source of phenolic sheet is https://www.amazon.com/Online-Plastic-Supply-Phenolic-inches/dp/B081VR42MG/ref=sr_1_25?hvadid=78271487894049&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=phenolic+sheet&qid=1579623720&sr=8-25
There are many grades and colors of phenolic from creamy white to tan to brown to black.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2020, 06:30:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 20, 2020, 10:38:20 AM
It appears to be 1/32" phenolic sheet, as would have been the case if you could find the Mil - spec unit new in the box. You can buy phenolic sheet under various trade names like Garolite for example:
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets
Quote from: csheff on January 20, 2020, 08:05:23 AM
Is there a certain type of insulator that was used? Anyone make them?
The https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic-sheets examples don't look like the insulator that Shelby used. It was more like a thin piece of circuit board looking material. At least that is what it looks like to me.
Not disputing your definition just disputing the look. I used the circuit board comparison because that is what it closest reminds me of older transistor board material. Not plastic ones. It does not look any of the many examples in the link that you posted which is the reason that compelled me to reply.