We're the 65 GT350's built in groups of sequential Ford VIN's? Don't know if Ford sent entire sequential runs of 5R09K's ?
Thanks!
VIN numbers were assigned when the order was received at San Jose often weeks or months prior to building the cars just like orders for other purposes. Cars were not typically assembled in sequential order and in a single day the VIN's could have a spread of 4,000 numbers (cars built next to one another) given the documentation from other examples. Looking at other years of production where we have the real build dates (we don't for 65-66 production) complete orders were not completed all the same day or even on sequential days.
Thanks. When you see the vintage pictures with a full lot of fastbacks I thought they might have been sequential built VINs.
Thanks again.
The '65 SAAC registrar could probably give you an idea if that was true.
Of course, this would not necessarily correlate to the SFM number or when the cars were received/completed at SA.
Quote from: mustang6473 on January 23, 2020, 05:56:31 PM
Thanks. When you see the vintage pictures with a full lot of fastbacks I thought they might have been sequential built VINs.
Thanks again.
Believe you are likely looking at the "lot" as Shelby not San Jose ;)
Never seen a picture identified as the finished cars awaiting transportation/shipping at the San Jose plant in 64-66
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/40-250120153946.jpeg)
Was thinking of this picture weather the VINS from Ford were sequential? Thanks again
Thats the airport.
Cars were built in groups , some are sequential, some are not
Quote from: mustang6473 on January 25, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/40-250120153946.jpeg)
Was thinking of this picture weather the VINS from Ford were sequential? Thanks again
The pictures are not of the cars as the appear at San Jose assembly plant . This is the lot at Shelby American (see airport blast wall in background). The cars are in finished condition waiting shipment. It is almost a certainty that they were not all parked in sequential order. In higher resolution photos you can see cards in the windshield with the Shelby VIN . Some are even in order. The Ford VIN's were not always sequential with the Shelby VIN .
Ford built them in groups - I would guess 25 (or some number that would fit evenly on the train car). Once they got to Shelby the were put in the lot. I doubt the minimum wage lot boy followed any method or direction when bringing a car into the shop for conversion. As cars arrived they would be parked in any empty space. I doubt there was an effort to keep them in any VIN order. Once they were in the shop I'd wager the Ford VIN was written next to the next SA# in line. I have had the holy grail ledger of serial numbers in my hands but really didn't examine it closely other than looking at my own VIN at the time.
Don' t believe they were built in groups, one after another on the last "half" of the line, at San Jose (IMHO an urban legend from published beliefs decades ago) but do agree they were shipped/transported in groups.
We do have pictures of them being transported and delivered on car carriers - don't recall any documentation of rail delivery to southern Calif.
Appears to be eight Mustangs max for each carrier. Examples of what would become R models and non R models intermixed on these carriers.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-250120214617.jpeg)
Company named Hadley was responsible for transporting most or all of the Mustangs southward I believe.
The cars in the first row from left to right are: #290, #283, #276, #275 (my car)
Texas Swede
Quote from: mustang6473 on January 25, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/40-250120153946.jpeg)
Was thinking of this picture weather the VINS from Ford were sequential? Thanks again
When were the optional wheels put on the car?
Quote from: Rbwiii on January 25, 2020, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: mustang6473 on January 25, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/40-250120153946.jpeg)
Was thinking of this picture weather the VINS from Ford were sequential? Thanks again
When were the optional wheels put on the car?
Typically after they arrived at SA.
That photo would have been taken in late May '65. The 4 cars identified (#290, #283, #276, #275 ) were completed 5/20-5/21, according to the registry.
Here's what's interesting though:
5S275 received 5/13 (in the same batch is what became 5S365, almost 100 units difference, but VIN probably very close to 275)
5S276/283/290 received 5/17 (in the same batch were 10 cars destined to be 5S3xx numbers and 3 with 4xx numbers, the latest being 5S477!) 477 sat on the lot for a month before work started on it.
Agreed, they were not at all sequential.
Here's a specific example:
Bo's car 5S275 is 64 VINs 'junior' to my car 5S339, however my car was delivered to SAI before his, May 9 v May 13.
There is a very good chance that 5S339 had an earlier FOMOCO VIN than 5S275.
These examples are all over the place: 5S479 was delivered before 5S259 and thus may well have a FOMOCO VIN hundreds of numbers 'older' and so on.
272 was a "roof stripe, Cragar wheel" car shipped together with two other no stripe , steel wheel cars with serials in the 400s to my local dealer in Anaheim Ca. Jim Schield's wife bought 272 new from McCoy Ford and they still have it. Craig Conley ( at one time) owned the other two "plain cars. The Ford vins were farther apart than just a couple hundred.
Randy
I'll ask about this story I've heard since this conversation about 65 VINs is on going. A local Shelby member purchased a 65 fastback K code built in San Jose that is painted pale yellow. He says that this car was destined for SA because its VIN is in a block of VINs of others that went to SA. But someone needed a yellow car for a special order so this one was pulled and finished. I'm thinking he got this story from the PO. How could that ever be proven?
Quote from: Bigblock on January 28, 2020, 10:10:24 AM
I'll ask about this story I've heard since this conversation about 65 VINs is on going. A local Shelby member purchased a 65 fastback K code built in San Jose that is painted pale yellow. He says that this car was destined for SA because its VIN is in a block of VINs of others that went to SA. But someone needed a yellow car for a special order so this one was pulled and finished. I'm thinking he got this story from the PO. How could that ever be proven?
Paperwork would be the only possible explanation. Although, even if it were true, what's significant about it? The car never became a Shelby.
I think all the 1965s were white. There is no added value for a " might have been"
Not the way Ford's system works . Add this story to the long list of improbable unsupported Shelby related stories out there. It was entertaining to hear another one however.
+1 Bob, "most" people don't understand how the assembly line went. It wasn't "all Mustangs , all the time". Nor was it "run a hundred K codes" and go back to A and C codes.
Randy
I have had many K CODES over the years but never thought to add on ... Ya know... This was going to be a SHELBY ! The coulda shoulda woulda never added value in my eyes maybe because it was the pale yellow color issue, that he wanted to fluff it up some. That color seems the hardest to get rid off, painted them resale red- end of problem. ;)
Quote from: Bigblock on January 28, 2020, 10:10:24 AM
I'll ask about this story I've heard ........... He says that this car was destined for SA because its VIN is in a block of VINs of others that went to SA.
But someone needed a yellow car for a special order so this one was pulled and finished. I'm thinking he got this story from the PO. How could that ever be proven?
IMHO not likely since the SAI destined cars were scheduled to be built to DSO add & delete spec, assembly plants don't function well to deviation from planning schedules.
cars were built in whatever batches could accommodate unique materials as they arrived at San Jose. i.e. C5ZX- parts, axles with 10x2.5" brakes, BW T10 trans, brake prop valve, etc
jim p
Quote from: gt350hr on January 28, 2020, 11:29:44 AM
+1 Bob, "most" people don't understand how the assembly line went. It wasn't "all Mustangs , all the time". Nor was it "run a hundred K codes" and go back to A and C codes.
Randy
+1 Allot of confusion between how the orders were received, processed, then how they were built. Plenty of "I heard" and flat out made up ideas that have been repeated over and over again. There was one I heard a couple of times told at shows, back 30 years ago, where the story was that they "ran out of K code engines so they built Shelby's with 6 cylinders and later shipped the K codes to Shelby where they met up with the cars and were installed" :o
We've learned allot over the years through interviews with managers, workers, guys that laid out the plant, documents and more that have helped with the understanding we have today. Having the read completion date for 67 production (would have been nice to have things like start dates) has helped allot. We have a much better idea of what took place but there appears that their will always be some unknowns and some stories will always persist.
I have encountered the *opposite*. Two years ago at the Pismo Beach Saturday morning cruise there was a basic white 271hp 4sp 2+2, rough, complete and unrestored with a VIN of 5R09K217XXX. The owner was unaware and I did not play it up. That is right in the middle of the May 65 SFMs.
(thank you J_Speegle)
That's odd, my '66 carryover cars were all 5R09K 24xxxx . That run was built after May for sure.
Randy
Quote from: camp upshur on January 28, 2020, 05:01:26 PM
I have encountered the *opposite*. Two years ago at the Pismo Beach Saturday morning cruise there was a basic white 271hp 4sp 2+2, rough, complete and unrestored with a VIN of 5R09K217XXX. The owner was unaware and I did not play it up. That is right in the middle of the May 65 SFMs.
(thank you J_Speegle)
Could it be a GT350 that was retitled as a Mustang?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 28, 2020, 06:19:51 PM
Could it be a GT350 that was retitled as a Mustang?
Sure he looked at the vin when looking at it and would have taken notice of the two holes for the Shelby tag if they were there. Plenty of examples of Mustangs and other Ford models built on the same assembly line and built between cars that would later become Shelby's though they were ordered in the same DSO and assigned VIN's when the order was received months or more earlier.
I was in LA over the weekend at a wonderful Shelby event at the Petersen Museum and brought 5S276 (one of the cars identified in the above picture) back to her birthplace!!
That's so cool - thanks for posting!
- Phillip
This discussion reminds me of an incident back in the mid '70s when I was looking for a nice Shelby to buy. I found an add in the local paper for a 1966 G.T.350. I called the phone number and spoke to the owner. One of my first questions was what was the VIN. The owner rattled of a Mustang VIN. When I told him that that wasn't a Shelby VIN he assured me that the car was indeed a Shelby, it just never made it to California. End of conversation. Fortunately I hadn't gotten my hopes up too high.
Quote from: propayne on January 28, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
That's so cool - thanks for posting!
- Phillip
+1 . Thanks for sharing that pic.