Has anyone here used these? It looks like a repackaged Standard part?
I don't know if that is true or not. What I do know is that the Scott Drake C6DZ-10884-B temp sender I bought caused the temp gage to read way too high. I found a used original for sale on eBay and it works properly.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2020, 08:04:46 AM
Has anyone here used these? It looks like a repackaged Standard part?
Thanks Royce. That's what I needed to know.
I start from this position: the Scott Drake parts are not acceptable replacements for a Shelby. Never had an issue since.
This is the factory unit in the attached picture. I noted three replacement units read about 3/4 of the guage at 190 -198 degrees, which it should read about 3/8. I have tried a NAPA unit, Drake and Autozone,which my observation was that all three read high on the guage.
-Keith
The Scott Drake appears to be just a repackaged aftermarket unit. The Ford/Motorcraft with the red insulator appears to be the only one that works correctly.
I just wanted to verify the uselessness of the SD unit.
As I previously stated, the Standard is reading about 3/4 at thermostat opening with a 192.
I seem to think that I have two originals at the bottom of one of the parts bins? Hum? Now which one? I need to go into a trance. It will come to me. :D
Better to meditate for a few hours rather then spend weeks looking. ;)
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 03, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
This is the factory unit in the attached picture. I noted three replacement units read about 3/4 of the guage at 190 -198 degrees, which it should read about 3/8. I have tried a NAPA unit, Drake and Autozone,which my observation was that all three read high on the guage.
-Keith
Hey Keith - so, is this correct for a 1967 GT350? We're they different for big / small blocks?
Thanks!
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on February 03, 2020, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 03, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
This is the factory unit in the attached picture. I noted three replacement units read about 3/4 of the guage at 190 -198 degrees, which it should read about 3/8. I have tried a NAPA unit, Drake and Autozone,which my observation was that all three read high on the guage.
-Keith
Hey Keith - so, is this correct for a 1967 GT350? We're they different for big / small blocks?
Thanks!
The Ford sourced temp sender with the red insulator is the correct one for both 67 GT 350 and GT 500.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 03, 2020, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on February 03, 2020, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 03, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
This is the factory unit in the attached picture. I noted three replacement units read about 3/4 of the guage at 190 -198 degrees, which it should read about 3/8. I have tried a NAPA unit, Drake and Autozone,which my observation was that all three read high on the guage.
-Keith
Hey Keith - so, is this correct for a 1967 GT350? We're they different for big / small blocks?
Thanks!
The Ford sourced temp sender with the red insulator is the correct one for both 67 GT 350 and GT 500.
Thanks Bob!
Is this the same sender for a '68?
The Ford sourced temp sender with the red insulator is the correct one for both 67 GT 350 and GT 500.
[/quote]
Interesting, as both of my cars have temperature senders with white insulators('66 and '67 GT-350's). My gauges appear to read correctly. Both have been installed 25 plus years. One of them I can see the Ford logo, and the number 260.
Greek
Quote from: greekz on February 03, 2020, 06:49:25 PM
The Ford sourced temp sender with the red insulator is the correct one for both 67 GT 350 and GT 500.
Interesting, as both of my cars have temperature senders with white insulators('66 and '67 GT-350's). My gauges appear to read correctly. Both have been installed 25 plus years. One of them I can see the Ford logo, and the number 260.
Greek
[/quote]Other senders will work (in varying ways ) but the red insulator one is what was intended .
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 03, 2020, 06:59:18 PM
Quote from: greekz on February 03, 2020, 06:49:25 PM
The Ford sourced temp sender with the red insulator is the correct one for both 67 GT 350 and GT 500.
Interesting, as both of my cars have temperature senders with white insulators('66 and '67 GT-350's). My gauges appear to read correctly. Both have been installed 25 plus years. One of them I can see the Ford logo, and the number 260.
Greek
Other senders will work (in varying ways ) but the red insulator one is what was intended .
[/quote]
Thanks.
The original appeared to be a chalky pinkish white. I presumed it was aged and faded. I replaced it when I rebuilt the engine. I hadn't noted any others complaining about incorrect readings. With a tight new engine, I expected it to run a little hot. However, after putting eight hundred miles on it it should be loosened up to a point it would run in the normal ranges. When it didn't I decided to run a manual temperature gauge. It showed 187-199 degrees.
Phil Severence at Phildon went through my cluster a second time after the debacle with Tachman. All gauges work perfectly now.
Rocketman's Classics can also assist with values so you can ascertain if the issue lies with the gauge or sender.
-Keith
OK. I found my Ford temp sensor. It's new and stamped MOTORCRAFT 260 in what must be 3 or 4 pt type. The insulator is red.
Now I know that this is a service part. It's from about 1985. I know, because I bought it.
Here's a question. Are the original production line senders stamped Ford, Autolite, or Motorcraft?
I just saw one for sale on Eplayme with an Autolite box. It wasn't Punky but the description said nothing about that at all.
The type on this one is so small, presuming it doesn't wind up against the distributor, a judge is going to need really good light and a good magnafying glass to read it. The red insulator is easy to see.
In regards to your pink one Keith. This one is new and is not bright red I would say maybe half way between red and pink, but I can definitely see where it could maybe be desribed as pink. Especially after tee many Martunnies? ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 05, 2020, 01:27:37 PM
OK. I found my Ford temp sensor. It's new and stamped MOTORCRAFT 260 in what must be 3 or 4 pt type. The insulator is red.
Now I know that this is a service part. It's from about 1985. I know, because I bought it.
Here's a question. Are the original production line senders stamped Ford, Autolite, or Motorcraft?
I just saw one for sale on Eplayme with an Autolite box. It wasn't Punky but the description said nothing about that at all.
The type on this one is so small, presuming it doesn't wind up against the distributor, a judge is going to need really good light and a good magnafying glass to read it. The red insulator is easy to see.
In regards to your pink one Keith. This one is new and is not bright red I would say maybe half way between red and pink, but I can definitely see where it could maybe be desribed as pink. Especially after tee many Martunnies? ;)
It would typically say Autolite. In concours /div II we look for the visible appearance of the insulator and not any engineering numbers or trademarks. In Premier concours /div I all things have to be genuine no repro original marked as assemblyline and date codes line up . That goes for belts,batteries ,tires etc. So unless you are going for the hardest class then the Motorcraft would not matter as long as the appearance match's assemblyline. In the case of the temp sender it does. If you don't want to go the trouble of finding the best one calibration wise or the one you already have you are satisfied with then I would suggest doctoring the insulator to look the part ;) . That is if the correct looking part matters to you. If it doesn't then never mind.
Was the Autolite only an assembly line part or were they available as service parts?
A '65 Mustang/Shelby sender would be stamped Ford?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 05, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
Was the Autolite only an assembly line part or were they available as service parts?
A '65 Mustang/Shelby sender would be stamped Ford?
Autolite was marked on assemblyline and service parts until aproximatly 1970. A 65 sender was a different shape sender (smaller diameter) altogether compared to the C6 wider diameter sender.
For reference, here is the original from 6S1732. Insulator appears to have originally been white.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yQk7ncYLhUsQ2CG6_l6uwoAh5Q_8NqzoFg-VQEFGccDXYBhUuSn7WI9CR79CN0qjUBQ5nEEyFTQURRUmeNrn_O3c6xcTmx77xeoXsPq8gI6RnXR_qEjM2WF8zLJiWulhKoGQN0niI0kWYFrE0l8z2de3Om2yzNlo060cEXmuRpztINFZVu85ZkxXRoS2k_diMsXyQuSbcRHn66dGrxLFfFoLeD96InCV9JVZfVKaO_swHKxMCqT7vLQm-RnMgcjCF61h9px6AQB6I5FZww0Uy1vUsJkavog267Q43wCJ5BnT1FP3g8uIBDEFSoriWelcl36w7xqYy2s_0k7mzzWvJLh-ZycAXhiaJv-lKcgMUvCdc-EzNE1Ft3UG1EZ-k_SZ8gfLyN3qjW33s6bgOSb_z1wuZDzTA7Xz4AlbkGbfSAK7YkcJ7vTMjqSRR0xLomGLKC2a78X0gkAX-vBm4c55tBQMgbI3xu8V1YajtHMVeS0MB8SwocPuiXuSwwJcYffOwUfrmt2oA-grqqOp-oVLjjABOJK4ftK3yohyVDn0MPJRrcN8B1x4c2jRtdVgLQw9ppfuOZDf-y3VVrq4HFjGvhsuJfwklMI17d_bvEfYp7T7lTbAc6fZswtDwYpA9dWHd3Nj-3wK9fMtQpsWtTYShxBKux3scBuGXprO1VX3nzewgRHyzOyj6dw=w800-no)
Quote from: Brant on February 05, 2020, 05:55:55 PM
For reference, here is the original from 6S1732. Insulator appears to have originally been white.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yQk7ncYLhUsQ2CG6_l6uwoAh5Q_8NqzoFg-VQEFGccDXYBhUuSn7WI9CR79CN0qjUBQ5nEEyFTQURRUmeNrn_O3c6xcTmx77xeoXsPq8gI6RnXR_qEjM2WF8zLJiWulhKoGQN0niI0kWYFrE0l8z2de3Om2yzNlo060cEXmuRpztINFZVu85ZkxXRoS2k_diMsXyQuSbcRHn66dGrxLFfFoLeD96InCV9JVZfVKaO_swHKxMCqT7vLQm-RnMgcjCF61h9px6AQB6I5FZww0Uy1vUsJkavog267Q43wCJ5BnT1FP3g8uIBDEFSoriWelcl36w7xqYy2s_0k7mzzWvJLh-ZycAXhiaJv-lKcgMUvCdc-EzNE1Ft3UG1EZ-k_SZ8gfLyN3qjW33s6bgOSb_z1wuZDzTA7Xz4AlbkGbfSAK7YkcJ7vTMjqSRR0xLomGLKC2a78X0gkAX-vBm4c55tBQMgbI3xu8V1YajtHMVeS0MB8SwocPuiXuSwwJcYffOwUfrmt2oA-grqqOp-oVLjjABOJK4ftK3yohyVDn0MPJRrcN8B1x4c2jRtdVgLQw9ppfuOZDf-y3VVrq4HFjGvhsuJfwklMI17d_bvEfYp7T7lTbAc6fZswtDwYpA9dWHd3Nj-3wK9fMtQpsWtTYShxBKux3scBuGXprO1VX3nzewgRHyzOyj6dw=w800-no)
The picture insulator could be faded red ;) . Here is a good discussion with supporting documentation on the subject . http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=21427.0
Who got the Autolite from ebay? You Bob?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 07, 2020, 05:25:12 PM
Who got the Autolite from ebay? You Bob?
Are you referring to the NOS one that 8 barrel posted the picture of in response #5?
This one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/autolite-TEMP-GAUGE-SENDING-UNIT-w-TACH-C6DZ-10884-B/223850788712?hash=item341e8bf768:g:gn0AAOSw3vpeHLDQ&vxp=mtr
As soon as he replied to me that it was stamped Autolite, it was already gone. Apparently he didn't know what he had.
There must have been a bunch of folks he responded to and it was like Jeopardy with beating the other guy to the buzzer.
I figured it was Bob?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/66-67-68-Mustang-Falcon-Fairlane-289-302-390-Engine-Coolant-Temperature-Sending/283773709013?hash=item42123b2ad5:g:wCUAAOSwy1ddT2mL
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Lincoln-Mark-III-Single-Terminal-Temperature-Sender-Switch-C6DZ10884B/254363473759?hash=item3b393e975f:g:YigAAOSwkGddglPR
Quote from: 2112 on February 07, 2020, 09:05:55 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/66-67-68-Mustang-Falcon-Fairlane-289-302-390-Engine-Coolant-Temperature-Sending/283773709013?hash=item42123b2ad5:g:wCUAAOSwy1ddT2mL
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Lincoln-Mark-III-Single-Terminal-Temperature-Sender-Switch-C6DZ10884B/254363473759?hash=item3b393e975f:g:YigAAOSwkGddglPR
Those are Motorcraft, the other one was Autolite.
The sending unit I posted was dated 1-69. If anyone was curious.
-Keith
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 07, 2020, 10:22:30 PM
The sending unit I posted was dated 1-69. If anyone was curious.
-Keith
Not that it matters much. That type is very small and not clearly stamped but I would have thought that a date of 1-69 would be stamped AUTOLITE?
Where's Bob? Bob, a 69 Shelby with a MOTORCRAFT stamping in Premier would be a deduction?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 10, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 07, 2020, 10:22:30 PM
The sending unit I posted was dated 1-69. If anyone was curious.
-Keith
Not that it matters much. That type is very small and not clearly stamped but I would have thought that a date of 1-69 would be stamped AUTOLITE?
Where's Bob? Bob, a 69 Shelby with a MOTORCRAFT stamping in Premier would be a deduction?
Yep.
Sorry about that. I read the post about temp senders. I checked out mine and the insulator was broken. So I looked on ebay and bought the Autolite one, after the guy replied it was an Autolite. Rick
Quote from: motorhead428 on February 10, 2020, 08:36:36 PM
Sorry about that. I read the post about temp senders. I checked out mine and the insulator was broken. So I looked on ebay and bought the Autolite one, after the guy replied it was an Autolite. Rick
Excellent buy.
I saw that and thought "$109 for a temp sender?"
And that's a good buy?
Quote from: Bossbill on February 10, 2020, 10:33:57 PM
I saw that and thought "$109 for a temp sender?"
And that's a good buy?
FYI the Autolite one sold for 60.00 according to the posted link.
Ok, there were a total of three posted.
I didn't see that one.
Quote from: Bossbill on February 10, 2020, 11:25:58 PM
Ok, there were a total of three posted.
I didn't see that one.
There was only one Autolite. The others are Motorcraft.
Accurate observation is a good quality for a moderator. ;)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-C6DZ10884B-SW552-Temperature-Sender-Sending-Switch-fits-66-1966-Ford-Falcon/124029469087?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
I picked this one up for my 67 after reading this post. It arrived and looks correct for my application. Thought it was a little spendy for a sending unit.
Quote from: Horsman on February 11, 2020, 12:42:36 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-C6DZ10884B-SW552-Temperature-Sender-Sending-Switch-fits-66-1966-Ford-Falcon/124029469087?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
I picked this one up for my 67 after reading this post. It arrived and looks correct for my application. Thought it was a little spendy for a sending unit.
Correct for application but not assemblyline correct. Autolite is preferred given it would be more like assemblyine. It would be best if the metal stamped Motorcraft disappeared completely for concours. Out of sight out of mind ;) . Motorcraft is not acceptable on batteries , rear shocks etc.
Correct for application but not assemblyline correct. Autolite is preferred given it would be more like assemblyine. It would be best if the metal stamped Motorcraft disappeared completely for concours. Out of sight out of mind ;) . Motorcraft is not acceptable on batteries , rear shocks etc.
[/quote]
Glad I found something that will make the gauge work correctly, no more concours cars for me.
Quote from: Horsman on February 12, 2020, 06:25:29 PM
Correct for application but not assemblyline correct. Autolite is preferred given it would be more like assemblyine. It would be best if the metal stamped Motorcraft disappeared completely for concours. Out of sight out of mind ;) . Motorcraft is not acceptable on batteries , rear shocks etc.
Glad I found something that will make the gauge work correctly, no more concours cars for me.
[/quote]It just takes a little ingenuity to make the Mortorcraft disappear. Typically filing and polishing. For those that care it provides a path/solution for a more original look. If you don't care about the original look or don't want to do the extra work then that is a choice that each owner has to make .
As Keith said earlier, the Scott Drake units read hotter than the actual temperature. A few years ago I chased an overheating problem that didn't exist. I spent hours chasing my tail, changing thermostats and playing with radiator fluid additives. I was really pissed off at Scott Drake when I tried a used temp sensor and the problem was eliminated. The repro part wasn't even close. The Ford part whether Autolite or Motorcraft labeled can be made unreadable in a few minutes and they read accurately. I am glad this subject came up here so other's don't go through what I did.
Dave
Quote from: Bossbill on February 10, 2020, 10:33:57 PM
I saw that and thought "$109 for a temp sender?"
And that's a good buy?
These things are $8 items. Even $60 is pricey but all considered, an Autolite for $60 is a find. You just DO NOT see them every day.
Whoever standardized the aftermarket units at 332 ohms vs. 302 for the Ford part is the culpret here.
If it were the other way around you could install a resistor in line. That won't work here unfortunately.
Glad I saw this post as well, great information. I was in need of a temp gauge sender and thought the aftermarket unit would be fine.
Quote from: Horsman on February 13, 2020, 05:17:54 PM
Glad I saw this post as well, great information. I was in need of a temp gauge sender and thought the aftermarket unit would be fine.
+1. I'm in the same situation.
Bottom line it is most important for most to find one that works as intended. If you find one that works regardless of if Ford or aftermarket it is meant as to be helpful to let others know that the sender can easily be made to look close in appearance to the assemblyline unit for those that care to try and preserve the historical look.
I put in the Motorcraft sender. Now the gauge reads 1/2 way with the engine warmed and a 192 thermostat.
Still looking for a scientific answer as to why. My "technical advisor" on this is "too busy". He says they all should work. No kidding but obviously they all don't read accurately? I think I need a new technical advisor? ;)
Doug: Did you check your voltage regulator? I had one reading 7.5V. Fuel gauge and the temperature gauge also read high, even thought it wasn't hot.
Yes. I think it was either 5 or 5.5v? I don't remember since it reads about right now and no need to reopen that case. Just under 1/2 with the thermostat just opening at 192. So I'm happy with it.
It's a Motorcraft unit.
It seems to be the consensus here that it is the after market senders not being calibrated properly or they were all standardized to the wrong number?
They aren't giving these away, are they?
On to the next grossly overpriced item on my list.