So...got a request from France to "register" a new purchase, said to be CSX 3120. Problem is, nothing adds up. The pictures tend to speak for themselves...
The data tag is problematic. It is wrong and it is located on the firewall.
You obviously sound suspicious.
Just for giggles, ask him about it's provenance.
Mike
Looks like the took the data plate and rubbed it on the concrete floor to "age" it. Long ago, a dealer/broker in the southeast was doing that to sell reproductions overseas. Could this be one of them?
Bill
I always thought that is CSX3120 :o http://burgolracing.ch/index.php?lg=fr&id1=m568&id2=m579&id3=m580&id4=a582
I knew of CSX3121 when Mark Bucheim owned it. Comparing the two, "3120" has got some significant differences to it on the body.
I can see why there is question about exactly what this car is?
How much of it does it need to really be just a "restored" car rather then a car created out of air and a repro vin tag? Did they start with a bolt or do you need more then just one bolt?
I'd go with Ned's suspicions. It's obviously a nice car but it isn't what left the factory as CSX3120. Racers don't usually care much about that kind of a detail. Investors do.
Considering the dollars involved, misrepresenting a car like this to the wrong person could have a significant life ending threat to it?
The gold car that the Burgol group has photos of (above) we were told was 3120. But it lacks any history at all and just showed up one day. (And clever comment, Mike, on asking about the French cars' "provenance.") This car isn't the gold car having been repainted blue - it is a different car altogether, and lacks a number of signature details of proper, alloy-bodied Cobras. The footbox tag is a joke, being the wrong type with the wrong imprinting and, well, when was the last time you saw a tag attached in the wrong place with 2 phillips-head screws in the center?
Thats what I want to say, it´s a bad try from somebody who own it or want to sell it to make a 50.000 euro car to a million dollar cobra. It should be obvious for everybody who knows Cobra´s and Shelby´s.
Quote from: Kent on February 15, 2020, 03:12:49 AM
Thats what I want to say, it´s a bad try from somebody who own it or want to sell it to make a 50.000 euro car to a million dollar cobra. It should be obvious for everybody who knows Cobra´s and Shelby´s.
To me, it isn't obvious, it is just very suspicious. It could be a completely reconstructed car from the remains of the original but I would just pass on what Ned once phrased to me, "Doug, I just want you to know that the car, is not what left Shelby American new".
With the availability of aluminum bodied "continuation cars" it is relatively easy to replace them by just installing the VIN tag, either the original or a reproduction, and what is more disturbing, it is probably legal and defendable by a team of expensive and aggressive attorneys?
I'd have to use the term "corruptibility" in description of the builders and legitimate sale of a car built to your specifications. Cash talks, nobody walks.
The Cobras have had several VIN tags installed and even Ned's SC was confusing to me with the addition of the "67" before the CSX on the tag. Those tags, even though original, looked phony to me.
When it was a fifty thousand dollar car, the consideration was less significant. I'd predict that someone is going to get killed over one of these sales, if it hasn't already happened? Anyone know of missing persons associated with Cobra sales?
Besides the fact that as Kopec says, "these cars are owned by Captains of Industry and you're not one of them", I don't even want to go near the "Cobra Corral" at the convention. They circle the wagons for a reason and the last time I approached it, they all started leaning on their side arms.
Apparently Cobra ownership has achieved new heights of exclusivity? So what do you folks do to drive them? Buy a private island?
Conclusion:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Quack, quack, quack...
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 14, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
So...got a request from France to "register" a new purchase, said to be CSX 3120. Problem is, nothing adds up. The pictures tend to speak for themselves...
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on February 15, 2020, 08:25:17 AM
Conclusion:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Quack, quack, quack...
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 14, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
So...got a request from France to "register" a new purchase, said to be CSX 3120. Problem is, nothing adds up. The pictures tend to speak for themselves...
Well, that is kind of the point isn't it? This looks like a Cobra, runs like a Cobra, costs like a Cobra, but guess what? It isn't. ;)
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 14, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
So...got a request from France to "register" a new purchase, said to be CSX 3120. Problem is, nothing adds up. The pictures tend to speak for themselves...
Fixed it for you Ned.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 15, 2020, 09:46:53 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on February 15, 2020, 08:25:17 AM
Conclusion:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Quack, quack, quack...
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 14, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
So...got a request from France to "register" a new purchase, said to be CSX 3120. Problem is, nothing adds up. The pictures tend to speak for themselves...
Well, that is kind of the point isn't it? This looks like a Cobra, runs like a Cobra, costs like a Cobra, but guess what? It isn't. ;)
a lame one...
[quote author=shelbydoug link=topic=9309.msg77357#msg77
Besides the fact that as Kopec says, "these cars are owned by Captains of Industry and you're not one of them", I don't even want to go near the "Cobra Corral" at the convention. They circle the wagons for a reason and the last time I approached it, they all started leaning on their side arms.
Apparently Cobra ownership has achieved new heights of exclusivity? So what do you folks do to drive them? Buy a private island?
[/quote]
Now, Doug...It can't be as bad as all that. Consider the folks who managed to buy a Cobra back in the early '70s for around the price of a new Mustang. (That would be me, for example.) If they simply enjoyed the car, and maybe traded it for a slightly better one as time and luck allowed, today they have a nice car with a minimal investment. And they aren't all Captains of Industry, since many remain reasonable, normal people. I know many such folks and I bet you do as well. And we're glad to see you in the Cobra Corral, at the convention or anywhere else.
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 15, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
[quote author=shelbydoug link=topic=9309.msg77357#msg77
Besides the fact that as Kopec says, "these cars are owned by Captains of Industry and you're not one of them", I don't even want to go near the "Cobra Corral" at the convention. They circle the wagons for a reason and the last time I approached it, they all started leaning on their side arms.
Apparently Cobra ownership has achieved new heights of exclusivity? So what do you folks do to drive them? Buy a private island?
Now, Doug...It can't be as bad as all that. Consider the folks who managed to buy a Cobra back in the early '70s for around the price of a new Mustang. (That would be me, for example.) If they simply enjoyed the car, and maybe traded it for a slightly better one as time and luck allowed, today they have a nice car with a minimal investment. And they aren't all Captains of Industry, since many remain reasonable, normal people. I know many such folks and I bet you do as well. And we're glad to see you in the Cobra Corral, at the convention or anywhere else.
[/quote]
Someone rounded up a posse to head me off when they saw me coming. Don't feel bad though, I got yelled at same day by the Concouse folks. "YOU can't come here!"
I hadn't even killed anyone that day either? It was still early though. :o
Nah. Rick's right. Harsh but right. I'm not a Cobra guy anymore. Maybe a Prius?
Some bought them in the '60's and '70s? Not everyone's as old as you and I Ned?
Reminds me of when I asked about 3218 and was told, "You can't have a 427, you have to get a 289 first."? However that wasn't a Captain of Industry selling that car, it was more like Captain Crunch? ;)