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Messages - SFM6S087

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Perfectly understandable, John. Especially since the very first sentence that FL SAAC posted on this topic was, "Originally a white-with-blue-stripes í65 Shelby, car #48 was pulled and repainted in Hertz black and gold for presentation to Hertz rental company." Clearly indicating 5S048. I just assumed that "'65"was a typo on his part after reading the rest of his posts.

Either way, I'm happy you know what a carryover is and are willing to stand up for them when you spot perceived misinformation. THANKS!


For the record Ė a carryover is a car that started life as a 1965 Mustang chassis and was transformed at Shelby American into a 1966 GT350. The first 252 1966 GT350s fit into that description. That would be 6S001 through 6S252.

Also for the record, all carryovers are 1966 GT350s Ė not 1965.

So, in addition to being a special Hertz prototype, 6S048 is a 1966 GT350 carryover (albeit the Hertz version of the GT350). It was ordered from Ford by Shelby American on the same DSO as my 6S087 and 65 other cars. It was pulled at random from that batch to build into the first Hertz prototype.

How do I know that? Because Iíve been studying those 252 cars for 45 years. At one time those cars were referred to as leftover 65ís, 65 1/2,ís, crossovers, change-overs, and early 66ís among other names.  I and the Carryover Owners Group were instrumental in getting the automotive community to unite on the term carryover, as it seemed to most accurately reflect the history of those special cars. If youíd like to learn more we have a web site:

The ďUnique FeaturesĒ page is the result of my decades of research into these cars.

Over the years Iíve learned a lot about these cars, but Iíll be the first to admit that I donít know it all. So if you think Iím wrong letís discuss it. If your presentation is strong enough Iíll admit my error and give you credit for teaching me something. Iím always ready to learn something new, especially when it involves carryovers.


Cars For Sale / Re: 66 GT 350 # 40
« on: November 07, 2022, 04:16:52 PM »

Thanks for letting us know about this car for sale. I followed the link to your web site, but couldn't find this car listed there. Was hoping to see a few pictures.

Steve Sloan

Cars For Sale / Re: 1966 GT350 Carry-Over for sale UK
« on: August 18, 2022, 11:23:14 AM »
Without weighing in on the discussion regarding 6S240 having backup lights from the factory, there is a plausible reason why the car was restored with them.

MOT regulations in the UK require that turn signals be physically separate from the taillight, they cannot be functionally combined using the same lens as in the US. Since 240 was restored in the UK, it was finished in compliance with this requirement. It is common UK practice to adapt the backup lights on early Mustangs to function as signals. This is the reason for the amber lenses in the backup light housings.

Bill, I checked with the owner of this car and got a little additional information. The turn signal lights in the UK cannot be red - must be amber. So even if the law didn't require a separate turn signal light, something would have to be done to the early Mustangs because of the all red taillight lens. The amber lenses in the backup light housings solves both those problems.


Cars For Sale / Re: 1966 GT350 Carry-Over for sale UK
« on: August 15, 2022, 10:07:00 AM »
The window sticker that came  with 165  stated backup lights as an added option. Also 2 mirrors and a dash clock. I think every dealer option should be a plus for a car. Was a dealer demo for Marshall Ford.

That is a very interesting car.

I see mention in the Registry of The Marshal Motor Company adding alloy wheels, 2 outside rear view mirrors, radio antenna and dash clock. But no mention of backup lights. And adding those would have required replacing the rear valance panel. Not something I think a dealer would want to do. But the car wasn't sold to the original owner until 1967, so I suppose anything is possible.

Is the window sticker that you mentioned original? Could you post a copy of that window sticker? I'd love to see it, and I'm sure Howard will want to update his records if those backup lights really were dealer installed.

Steve Sloan

Cars For Sale / Re: 1966 GT350 Carry-Over for sale UK
« on: August 14, 2022, 07:45:24 PM »
The research Iíve done indicates that the 250 non-prototype carryovers were originally built without backup lights. That was ascertained from a combination of the DSOs, some of the 1966 GT350 planning meeting notes, and period photos of actual cars.

Of the two prototypes, 6S001 has been presented without backup lights for many years now. I assume thatís correct for that car. And 6S023 has disappeared, so we donít know about that car.

Several of these cars have had backup lights added at some point in time. And if that suits the owner I certainly have no complaint.

Steve Sloan

1965 GT350/R-Model / Re: Archway Motors pics
« on: February 14, 2022, 02:05:37 PM »
Piggy-backing on the research and information that Charles previously provided, we can make a pretty good guess when these photos were taken.

5S358 Ė shipped to Archway on 8/3/65 and sold to first owner on 12/21/65
5S471 Ė shipped to Archway on 8/3/65 and sold to first owner on 12/10/65
5S505 Ė shipped to Archway on 8/3/65 and sold to first owner on 12/22/65
6S230 Ė shipped to Archway on 9/30/65 and didnít sell until 9/3/66.

It would seem that these pictures had to be taken between 9/30/65 (when 6S230 shipped to Archway) and 12/22/65 (when the last of the possible 1965 GT350s in these photos was sold to its first owner.

Make sense?


1965 GT350/R-Model / Re: Archway Motors pics
« on: February 14, 2022, 01:28:19 PM »
I think the '66 carryover is 6S230.  I only found 2 carryover's shipped to Archway Motors, the other was 6S248, but there is no mention of LeMans stripes.

The '65 is one of these:

I agree with you about the 1966 car. It's a carryover for sure because it doesn't have backup lights. And, as you mentioned, only 2 carryovers shipped to Archway - 6s230 with Cragars & stripes, and 6s248 with Cragars but no stripes. Making this car 6s230. Great research on your part. I was all set to do a deep dive to figure out which carryover that was, but you already did that. Thanks!


I think AAMA stands for American Automobile Manufacturers Association. Can't find anything about this particular event.


1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: 66 fiberglass hoods with steel frames
« on: September 09, 2021, 05:35:56 PM »
Jeff, Thanks for the pictures, and the info about which scoop is the early and later version.

Jeff & Randy, Thanks for adding to my education!

I'm now reasonably convinced that the early hood version had the deeper scoop opening like the gold hood Jeff posted, along with NO "gussets" under the leading edge. And the later hood version had the shallower scoop opening like the blue hood Jeff posted, along with the 4 "gussets" under the leading edge. Does anyone disagree with that? Have I gone off the rails with that generalization? Maybe those two features do not need to be linked to each other?

Also, has anyone linked the clocking of the hood pin plate rivets to these two hood types? Could the 12-3-6-9 clocking go with the early hoods and the 2-4-8-10 clocking go with the later hoods?


1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: 66 fiberglass hoods with steel frames
« on: September 09, 2021, 12:37:30 PM »
Randy, thanks for sharing your opinion on this hood. I have long suspected that this is a "later" hood based on the "gussets" under the leading edge. But I never knew that there was a difference in the scoop opening. What fun this is learning something new!

If your trouble with photos is posting them to the forum, feel free to email them to me and I'll post them here for you. My email address is in my forum profile.

If anyone else has some pictures of the scoop opening on the "early" fiberglass over steel hoods, please jump in and post them.


1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: 66 fiberglass hoods with steel frames
« on: September 08, 2021, 08:05:07 PM »
Here's a picture of the other corner of my hood. It has a sharper cutout angle where the scoop meets the body of the hood. The other side looks more rounded at that joint. Could be that one of these areas has had some past repair work. I don't know the history of this hood except that it's from a 1966 GT350 - as told to me by Jim Cowles when he purchased it to use during the restoration of my car.

In any case, I post these pics here for the more knowledgeable forum members to use as examples to teach us something about the different versions of the fiberglass over steel hoods.


1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: 66 fiberglass hoods with steel frames
« on: September 08, 2021, 02:51:35 PM »
While we're waiting to see if any better pictures get posted, here are two shots of my current hood. It's an original 1966 GT350 hood, but not original to my 6S087.

Randy, (or anyone else), can you identify this hood type by that scoop opening? Early? Late? Cutout? Molded? Angular? Closed? Whatever?

Please ignore the odd shade of blue in these pics. I had to do a little brightening in Photoshop to get the details to show and that caused a change in the color.


1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: 66 fiberglass hoods with steel frames
« on: September 04, 2021, 11:25:07 AM »
Hey Randy, do you have any pictures that would show the 2 different scoop openings? Thatís something I was unaware of and would like to understand better.


Wanted to Buy / Re: WTB: 65 GT350 Lug Nut Wrench
« on: September 04, 2021, 10:36:04 AM »
Jim Cowles was selling perfect repos of that wrench at one time. If you can find whoever bought out Shelby Parts & Restoration they may still have a few.


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