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Messages - 427hunter

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1
   So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was.  My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.


I just hate the pile on nonsense here, itís a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vetteís, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that donít have any idea what it takes.

As we can agree, I don't know you and you don't know me but you made an assumption about me that was incorrect.  I do all my own engine SB and FE's builds, metal work, research, parts sourcing so I am use to getting my hands dirty.  This forum has many, many great aspects and we have to focus on that, the nonsense you are talking about is a very small portion of this site.

You may have a lot to contribute to the community but your posts seem to come from a disposition of "everyone is a bunch of kick stands that don't know" but that is not always the case.  Let's be positive and move the SAAC forward.


Well I have to eat my words then, I assume that most who can turn a wrench can appreciate how hard it all is. It just appears every time a car comes up for sale or auction the seagulls fly in. I stand corrected on my assumption.

2
   So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was.  My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.


I just hate the pile on nonsense here, itís a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vetteís, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that donít have any idea what it takes.

3
   Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.



That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO itís really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.

When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.

I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.

I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.

You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum.  You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe.  Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.


Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, itís an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?

As I said, be positive.  I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.


Great, now please share what number cars you own and some photos so we can see your proper restoration in comparison. If you actually own these cars and they are correctly restored I will gladly eat my words. I found that most on the shelby forum lie and currently donít own a Shelby.

It's funny how you think that owning a Shelby is an entry card to enter or speak in some mysterious world or it makes a person special, sir it doesn't.  Like me, you have been blessed to be a caretaker of the brand, it will outlive you and someone else will carry it on.

BTW.... in the background is a 66 Rcode Fairlane (1 of 57 factory ford drag cars).  Not in the picture is Phil Bonners 64 LW Rcode Galaxie 1 or 25 HiRiser 4speed cars and 63 1/2 rode Galaxie.  I don't have pictures of the 66 on my computer but call Howard if you need assurance he can verify.

The 65 is number 109 original paint, drivetrain, unrestored car.  The 66 is 1078 undergoing restoration the original engine has been restored and was submitted to this site for their review and critique (of which I was not offended but glad to have the comments).  The 70 is previous bronze winner at a SAAC meet a number of years ago is number is 483281 (SCJ, drag pack, 4speed).

One question, how old are you?

52, I am actually shocked you own anything based on your postings here.  Iíll  have to eat my words if you can turn a wrench and restored the 70 yourself.

4
427hunter,
       I asked you a question. By your definition you are "qualified" to give your opinion. Is it a 99 point car?

No, but sh!ting on everything is not the answer.

5
     427hunter,
         I would like to ask a simple question. "In your opinion , is the subject car a 99 point restoration?"

The car was/is not my point, my point is this forum has turned into a S#!t show. There are few actual Shelby owners on the forum, as you know most lie about what the own, most canít turn a wrench, and clearly have never restored a car themselves. If you or Bob get on the finer details of things I listen and respect your observations and opinions, many  here have nothing, not a car or a valid opinion since they have no concept of what it takes to restore a car. You notice the usual suspects never share their vin numbers or a photo. My opinion is if you donít own a shelby,  canít turn a wrench, your car is a POS , you shouldnít be throwing rocks.

6
   Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.


That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO itís really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.

When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.

I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.

I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.

You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum.  You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe.  Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.


Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, itís an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?

As I said, be positive.  I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.


Great, now please share what number cars you own and some photos so we can see your proper restoration in comparison. If you actually own these cars and they are correctly restored I will gladly eat my words. I found that most on the shelby forum lie and currently donít own a Shelby.

7
   Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.


That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO itís really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.

When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.

I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.

I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.

You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum.  You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe.  Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.


Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, itís an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?

8
   Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.


That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO itís really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.

When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.

I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.

I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.

9
Why donít the critics post their cars for comparison.

10
The Lounge / Re: L.A. Sheriff Deputy killed in Cobra crash today
« on: September 16, 2021, 09:12:21 PM »
Wow, I thought he was driving one of your mothers home after a long day working the street corner? Well your guess is as good as mine I suppose....I hope your mom is okay...

11
Up For Auction / Re: Black 1968 GT500KR on BAT
« on: September 16, 2021, 11:58:12 AM »
I'm going to take another constructive shot at this...

What should a less knowledgeable but as passionate Shelby seller or representative of a seller do specifically to understand any car they are offering to the general market beforehand? 

Please do not just say call someone who knows.  I tried that...

A person accepted by the best here who are willing to get paid to physically come inspect a car.   
Can they be objective about a car without disgust for previous work or choices.  There's no need for emotions and opinions, just facts that can be supported with history and knowledge.

I was willing on this previous car, and am willing in the near future to try again.  With the caveat that what is important to me is rarely as important to others.  Which applies to everyone IMHO
There is one expert who is local to me in the Detroit area who has appraised Cobras, GT40s, Shelbys through SAAC. He also appraised the 2016 LeMans winning Ford GT for Ford motor company. getting back to the KR you sold. Many who have owned or have contributed here could possibly determine why some things were like they were on your car. Rebodies: There are many panels inside the car that date codes can be read easily. The sheet metal on any car should  have date codes that coincide with the cars build and other cars built at the same time. Your car missing the hole for tilt switch should be investigated. Was that A pillar replaced because of rust/accident? The hole filled in? Why no holes in the front apron for the tilt cannister. Again, was it a replaced panel? Some of the spot welds I saw tend to make me think some aprons were replaced. Buck tag never mounted on DS and no hole on pass side for it. If a rebody why would someone use a car with bad aprons? if indeed the welds I saw point to replacement aprons(date codes on those if present?). As a person who took the basket case shell of a 68 Shelby and did an investigation to see if it was a real car I have been through that before. Oh, Yeah, the knee pad thing is interesting. Again, date coded sheet metal as easy as looking at some of the trunk inner supports could confirm if the date codes are with in the realm of the car build. hope this helps. FYI there are a "FEW" rebodied early Shelbys running around and documented by SAAC. They bring a fraction of what a non rebodied car brings. Gary



Alleging it's a re-body is a pretty heavy accusation on a public forum with no proof. You even directed people to this discussion on the BAT comment section below the auction. The seller posted a photo of the vin under the tag prior to restoration, and that car appears to have a long time known history in SAAC (1795 is in my 1987 registry with the owners information).  There are several date codes that can be seen in the photo's, are you saying they don't match the production date of the car? Do you know something we don't?
Why don't you reread my post. I am NOT alleging a rebody. Can you read English? I was pointing out how to spot out inconsistencies as date coded sheet metal to spot a REBODY. Yeah, I'll report your lack of understanding and accusations!


There is no lack of understanding here, your diatribe on car based on your observation and then statements on the lower value of re-bodies is called "context".   

12
Up For Auction / Re: Black 1968 GT500KR on BAT
« on: September 16, 2021, 11:34:52 AM »
I'm going to take another constructive shot at this...

What should a less knowledgeable but as passionate Shelby seller or representative of a seller do specifically to understand any car they are offering to the general market beforehand? 

Please do not just say call someone who knows.  I tried that...

A person accepted by the best here who are willing to get paid to physically come inspect a car.   
Can they be objective about a car without disgust for previous work or choices.  There's no need for emotions and opinions, just facts that can be supported with history and knowledge.

I was willing on this previous car, and am willing in the near future to try again.  With the caveat that what is important to me is rarely as important to others.  Which applies to everyone IMHO
There is one expert who is local to me in the Detroit area who has appraised Cobras, GT40s, Shelbys through SAAC. He also appraised the 2016 LeMans winning Ford GT for Ford motor company. getting back to the KR you sold. Many who have owned or have contributed here could possibly determine why some things were like they were on your car. Rebodies: There are many panels inside the car that date codes can be read easily. The sheet metal on any car should  have date codes that coincide with the cars build and other cars built at the same time. Your car missing the hole for tilt switch should be investigated. Was that A pillar replaced because of rust/accident? The hole filled in? Why no holes in the front apron for the tilt cannister. Again, was it a replaced panel? Some of the spot welds I saw tend to make me think some aprons were replaced. Buck tag never mounted on DS and no hole on pass side for it. If a rebody why would someone use a car with bad aprons? if indeed the welds I saw point to replacement aprons(date codes on those if present?). As a person who took the basket case shell of a 68 Shelby and did an investigation to see if it was a real car I have been through that before. Oh, Yeah, the knee pad thing is interesting. Again, date coded sheet metal as easy as looking at some of the trunk inner supports could confirm if the date codes are with in the realm of the car build. hope this helps. FYI there are a "FEW" rebodied early Shelbys running around and documented by SAAC. They bring a fraction of what a non rebodied car brings. Gary



Alleging it's a re-body is a pretty heavy accusation on a public forum with no proof. You even directed people to this discussion on the BAT comment section below the auction. The seller posted a photo of the vin under the tag prior to restoration, and that car appears to have a long time known history in SAAC (1795 is in my 1987 registry with the owners information).  There are several date codes that can be seen in the photo's, are you saying they don't match the production date of the car? Do you know something we don't? 

13
Up For Auction / Re: Black 1968 GT500KR on BAT
« on: September 15, 2021, 07:41:41 PM »
When should I show up for sentencing?

One of my more interesting observations through the years, loudest forum voices have no real names presented.


Don't get too worked up over the trolling here, the SAAC forum went down the drain a while ago. The critics for the most part have nothing but their opinions, ask them to post their cars for comparison.

14
Shelby was quoted as saying many times more then once, that "the only GT350 I had anything to do with was the '65".

Another quote was "I don't care anything about the Trans Am and those cars".

I love the guy and miss him but I look at the reality as much as I can but Ford was and still is the "money man" and runs the show.

Even Iaccoca was just an employee as "Ford v. Ferrari" attempts to illustrate.



I didn't keep track of when Iaccoca departs Ford but by the time of the end of the "Shelby GT" run, Shel was done and already in Africa taking the elites of the world on hunting expeditions on his "reserve".

HIS car was the Cobra. He accepted the GT40 project to beat Ferrari and the initial GT350 to as Iaccoca said "jazz up the Mustang".

What precisely happened within Ford Corporate is likely very similar to what was speculated in Ford v. Ferrari.

All of the "Shelby's creations" are forever iconic and still remain influential. They likely always will. Ford is the elephant in the room here and whether or not one accepts that doesn't change anything.



The other significant factor that is present is how Shelby influenced Ford's thinking as well as other manufacturers AND THE MARKET PLACE and that IS an almost "God like achievement" for a mere mortal who rose from chicken farming.

Ford jumped on an opportunity with Shelby and renamed an arm of their production train, the Shelby train. It can be said of Ford that they are a lot of things, some of which are kind of ugly but you can't criticize Ford with lacking vision, at least at that time.


Like in the story of the "Frankenstein 'Monster'" to this day, they are attempting to resurrect those 'monsters' by shooting new life into identifiable product names that they created that in fact may be only distant relatives of the originals.

As the quote at the end of the Le mans race goes Miles says "they are out there selling cars already aren't they Shel?" to which he replies, "that's what they do Bulldog".




There is another "story" that is involved in this that so far none have mentioned and maybe should? There was a novel, you know, a book. Those things with way too many printed pages with lots of words on them bound together?

It was called "The Betsy". Now in this story a powerful automotive industrialist gives a job to the son of a distant friend out of keeping a promise to his friend. The "rumor" or suggestion was that the industrialist was Henry Ford and the friend's son was Lee Iaccoca.


Which player in all of this is the critical factor and which is a catalyst? Quite a debate and maybe there should be a book or a movie about it to stimulate further "discussions"?

I vote movie. Those books can get heavy and if you drop one on your foot can do a lot of damage. Plus I already have one book. How many do you really need?

The reality is there is no SIMPLE answer. It's complicated.  ;)


I think what actully happened from 1962-1970 invalidates those quotes you cite.

In what way? He made them well after that when he was around us.


If you are unaware of where 65,66,67 were made and the production changes, SAís involvement in SCCA, AHRA, sponsored drivers, etc (too much to list) then I donít know what to tell you. The man had his hand in everything racing during that period. SA was his company and that is his direct involvement; under your way of thinking he had zero involvement in any car, because in reality he didnít turn a wrench.

I am quite aware of it. Apparently you aren't aware of what he said after all of that ended?


He didnít turn a wrench on a 65 either so whatís your point ?

There is no point in attempting to talk to you. It's like talking to a rock.


Not everyone can be as enlightened as you  ::)

15
Shelby was quoted as saying many times more then once, that "the only GT350 I had anything to do with was the '65".

Another quote was "I don't care anything about the Trans Am and those cars".

I love the guy and miss him but I look at the reality as much as I can but Ford was and still is the "money man" and runs the show.

Even Iaccoca was just an employee as "Ford v. Ferrari" attempts to illustrate.



I didn't keep track of when Iaccoca departs Ford but by the time of the end of the "Shelby GT" run, Shel was done and already in Africa taking the elites of the world on hunting expeditions on his "reserve".

HIS car was the Cobra. He accepted the GT40 project to beat Ferrari and the initial GT350 to as Iaccoca said "jazz up the Mustang".

What precisely happened within Ford Corporate is likely very similar to what was speculated in Ford v. Ferrari.

All of the "Shelby's creations" are forever iconic and still remain influential. They likely always will. Ford is the elephant in the room here and whether or not one accepts that doesn't change anything.



The other significant factor that is present is how Shelby influenced Ford's thinking as well as other manufacturers AND THE MARKET PLACE and that IS an almost "God like achievement" for a mere mortal who rose from chicken farming.

Ford jumped on an opportunity with Shelby and renamed an arm of their production train, the Shelby train. It can be said of Ford that they are a lot of things, some of which are kind of ugly but you can't criticize Ford with lacking vision, at least at that time.


Like in the story of the "Frankenstein 'Monster'" to this day, they are attempting to resurrect those 'monsters' by shooting new life into identifiable product names that they created that in fact may be only distant relatives of the originals.

As the quote at the end of the Le mans race goes Miles says "they are out there selling cars already aren't they Shel?" to which he replies, "that's what they do Bulldog".




There is another "story" that is involved in this that so far none have mentioned and maybe should? There was a novel, you know, a book. Those things with way too many printed pages with lots of words on them bound together?

It was called "The Betsy". Now in this story a powerful automotive industrialist gives a job to the son of a distant friend out of keeping a promise to his friend. The "rumor" or suggestion was that the industrialist was Henry Ford and the friend's son was Lee Iaccoca.


Which player in all of this is the critical factor and which is a catalyst? Quite a debate and maybe there should be a book or a movie about it to stimulate further "discussions"?

I vote movie. Those books can get heavy and if you drop one on your foot can do a lot of damage. Plus I already have one book. How many do you really need?

The reality is there is no SIMPLE answer. It's complicated.  ;)


I think what actully happened from 1962-1970 invalidates those quotes you cite.

In what way? He made them well after that when he was around us.


If you are unaware of where 65,66,67 were made and the production changes, SAís involvement in SCCA, AHRA, sponsored drivers, etc (too much to list) then I donít know what to tell you. The man had his hand in everything racing during that period. SA was his company and that is his direct involvement; under your way of thinking he had zero involvement in any car, because in reality he didnít turn a wrench.

I am quite aware of it. Apparently you aren't aware of what he said after all of that ended?


He didnít turn a wrench on a 65 either so whatís your point ?

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