SAAC Forum

Quote from: cj750 on September 11, 2021, 10:30:22 PM
It was over when Shelby got a good look at the '71 prototype and said "You can't pay me enough to put my name on that!"

While that sounds good this prototype pretty much says Ford was on the path to produce Shelbys into the 70s. According to documents Ford asked AO Smith to build the 70s but they declined effectively killing the program. Wasn't the Bosses, Wasn't the Mach1s. Lots of interesting comments but documents tell the story. So lets kill this topic now. Gary

Quote from: JohnSlack on September 10, 2021, 02:44:43 PM

Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 09, 2021, 06:48:09 PM
FYI John Barnes (ebay name miamiviceshelby ) is the seller of the literature and not John Slack who posted on this thread.

Bob,
I am not claiming to be the seller, however, thank you for that point of clarity.

John (Not the other John)

I mistook you for the seller hence Bob's response. I have since modified that post. Gary

  What i posted is an invoice for a 70. Yeah, I'll agree a real original window sticker is much more valuable than invoices and one reason is that invoices are available. Window stickers are extremely rare. A Window or tank sticker is much more valuable say on a 435HP L71 67 Vette for obvious reasons(I'd say 5K plus) these Shelbys are so documented you don't need a window sticker to prove what it is. It is a crowning piece of literature for the car it was originally installed on. Good luck on your sale. Gary

Quote from: 68stangcjfb on August 23, 2021, 05:36:22 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193666509682?hash=item2d176c6b72:g:i6sAAOSwfdZfYma2

LOL, I paid the late Lois Eminger 25 or 30 bucks for mine along with the pink order sheet. She made copies of the originals when she sold the original(bought numerous invoices off of her and she was local). Kevin Marti can sell a copy of the original(assume he would have it) for a LOTTTTT less. Usually the pink order form is with this copy. They are attached by a 4 digit number. Mine is 4102 found on both sheets.  Gary

Quote from: 69mach351w on August 28, 2021, 10:31:13 PM

Quote from: shelbydoug on August 25, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
It would seem that only Chrysler could possibly conceive of offering such strange contradictory factory build options? An automatic column shift with a Hemi and hood scoop?

What happened to the push buttons on the dash board? My HS Driver's Ed, a Ply Mouth Fury,  car had those. You could really slam those buttons but the girls needed to be careful they didn't break their "nails".

What about a roll bar with a cigar holder?

LMAO

Well Chrysler did Max Wedge and race Hemi cars with a dash push button trans. There are 2 Mr Gasket cars I'd used to see every year in Dearborn. Here is one for sale on BaT. Got to admit that is weird for that time period reaching to the dash to push a button to shift. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-dodge-330-hemi-lightweight/

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on August 29, 2021, 09:35:48 AM

Quote from: Coralsnake on December 28, 2020, 01:35:20 PM
I guess I am not shocked a cheap, off shore bumper does not fit.

It fits the knock off body shell perfect. They are probably stamping the bumper and them punching the holes. The original tooling would have produced the whole part with one crunch of the dies.

I work in sheet metal stampings and have since 1978. You would have a multiple of dies to get your end result for a bumper or any other body part. Usually no less than 4. The problem lies when off shore companies eliminate the die stamping processes and do some things by hand or not at all because dies are NOT cheap or they don't spend the time($$$) making sure their end product is "dead nuts on". Here in the USA our ave die cost per die is 250-300K and we have been working on getting that down but will never compete with China for a number of reasons and one major one is material cost on the onset. Our raw materials cost us more that it costs China to make a die including their material cost the last time I went through the cost meetings.
  One good example were the stamping of "full" 69-70 Mustang fastback quarters for a long time before dynacorn came out with a real full quarter. To get a factory stamping the 3rd or 4th operation would flange(tuck) in the lower rear quarter for the drain design. Repos never had that. You got the draw die shape which cannot "tuck" so the  trunk drop off never fit and the flange sits way too low and sticks out like a sore thumb. 
  On new dies we do "first panel scans" and score out panels. What is off due to spring back or bolster flex is digitized and sent back to die design/engineering to correct. We are finally with new technology being able to predict better spring back and bolster flex to the tune our first panel score are much higher. 90 plus is what it takes for a buyoff panel.  We have hit a few panels in the 90s the first time in the last year. Drives down iterations and cost and ups advanced die delivery time(BIG deal) to assy plants. That is what we need to do to survive as a UAW Die shop inside of GM. Because of this we are bringing more work back inhouse this year and hiring a lot of Die makers.
Usually you have a draw die, first trim die(direct). second trim/flange, cam trim cam flange and pierce. Sometimes you need 5 dies to perform all the tasks. Piercing holes are usually done in the last die after the panel is "set" after flanging. Variables to this process is why we have die designers and die engineers which we work with in our facility.  I'd post pics of all the operations(planning showing all dies and what they do) but don't want to get fired. This process can easily be found online I'd think. Gary

Quote from: 67 GT350 on August 29, 2021, 08:08:37 AM
Worst fitting bumper I have ever seen, 69 70 Mustang rear bumpers. Not sure on the 69 70 Shelbys.

Again depends on the manufacturer and when made. This is a Nordan put on my car back around 1990. I assume Nordan because the front bumper had a NORDAN sticker on it when I replaced it. This one fits good. Original rechromed bumper on the Shelby. Repo on the Mach1. last pic an all original car never taken apart stored since the early 70s(blown engine)

Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 28, 2021, 09:56:04 AM
Cudino,
It could have been white.
Guy had owned it for many years. may have an old pic of it.
It was a chance in a lifetime to get it. 71 Hemi Challenger conv,

The Panther pink V code conv was hit, debated on getting it, perhaps was too reserved in our offer to buy.
The concept car from AZ led to Galen<< mopar chief, finding out that not all is as records>> known>> say.

Same as a 65 Shelby that did get documented as 1 of 1 from Shelby records , 5 special order things on the car. Big Jim Cowles, ended up getting from me, one of two trips he made out to my place>>> John from Utah.
Gary, when you bump into Vito next, tell him John from Utah said hi !

Been a crazy ride for sure.
Also>>Heading to Watkins Glen where Ben, builder of the 1935 Speedster, worlds first exotic super car, is being placed in the Walk of fame.
Will share the walkway with shelby, gurney, cunningham, penski, hill, Finch, Kimberly>> all the great early race legends.

Will be there on the 6th, one of the two Rod Millen Built Miata mazda backed werks cars will be raced with the big dogs, 1st ever allowed to race SVRA.
Kind oi like the cobra coupe of the million cars sold. they are in the Genises book of world records, for that reason, the most sold two seat roadster in automotive history, 1878-2021.
Had to look into the crystal ball again,
There are a few experts on early Miata's at the SAAC site.
John

I will tell Vito the next time I see him. I remember you quite well as John from Utah for your wanted ads for cars. You wouldn't have known me for sure back then. Glad to see you are still enjoying cars. I remember Vito telling me he told you what he was looking for. NO HIGHLAND GREEN cars. Then you said you had one and hear you out. LOL. I remember he was adament about being able to get a Canadian title for it and preserving the Penn title. Same time he bought a aqua 69 GT500 vert out of Mn. Early 90s. Gary

Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 27, 2021, 05:15:27 PM
Was a screwed up deal in a way.
sideoiler;
I can not remember who I bought it from, probably was Tom Holland as you say.
He did say he worked with the Studious.
Story I got from them, Madonna gave it to Sean on their wedding day.
Was told it appeared on the cover of a big Hollywood magazine.

Told Keifer Sutherland, Sean penn, Charlie Sheen and some other rich actor raised hell in it with police >> in Hollywood.

It had about 5,000 worth of stereo equip in it.
Was a pretty good solid car as I recall.
Was the guys name>>>long time ago, Vito Campanaro I sold it to ?

Shelbyman, thank you, i have had over my fair share one might say.
Mr Vinnie was always the first to know>> might ask him the day I called him and told him I found the original block for his 67 gt 350, about 20 miles from his house>> no S--t.
Proud to by a Shelby & Ford guy  at heart.
The one I hated to walk from, was the 67 built pro type 68 conv . long story there.
Respectfully,
John

Yes, Vito Campanaro you sold it to. I haven't seen him in a few years (Covid) but he pops up occasionally. Last time was at my friend's Seraphim's house. Gary

Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 27, 2021, 12:20:19 PM
shelbymann1970,
I did not know that, the window must be a pretty good match for the opening, angles etc.
For Mopar fans, was Hemi 4 speed, mango, black interior needed rest, numbers match, came from Ut. Should be in their history books.
Guess 1 0f about 50, low number of 4 speeds as I recall.

You have had a lot of cool cars over the years. I seem to recall a friend of mine bought the Sean Penn 68 Shelby GT500 off of you decades ago. Lives in Windsor.  Gary

Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 27, 2021, 09:00:57 AM
Hoping to get in and get a look this Saturday as mentioned.
The Dr's son has stepped into the picture, not sure what effect, if any, tho is going to have.

My 69 Hemi 4 speed Dodge Daytona I once had >> it too had a weird back window as I recall.
Seems oddities have become involved, which is cool.
I always called that brown color, rootbeer ?
John

Did you know those who build Daytona Replicas(Charger 500s) use a Chevy Vega rear hatch with glass as the rear window setup on Daytonas? Met a 68 Shelby owner who had a clone.

Quote from: deathsled on August 26, 2021, 06:39:37 PM
Scammer gets scammed.  This guy has a lot of energy and patience to reel them in and frustrate them.  The anger levels of the scammers is off the scale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNziOoXDBeg

Thanks. Made my day. What worker would call a customer a MFer a dozen times?

Quote from: Cudino on August 26, 2021, 04:22:43 PM
Hi Gary,

'71 V-code Challengers are very rare.  Chrysler only produced big-block E-bodies (Challengers and Cudas) for 2 years, 70-71.  At 246 US shipments in total (127 4-speeds, 119 Autos) your 440-6pak "V-code" Challenger R/T was very rare, especially compared to 1970 production totalling nearly 2000 (1640 R/T and 296 RT/SE V-codes).  They didn't actually make an RT/SE model in 1971, that was a 1970-only offering, but for 1971 they did carry over the "Formal Roof" option that essentially made a '71 R/T into an RT/SE.  This is likely what you had, or perhaps you meant you had a '70 model instead of a '71.  Anyway, only 105 of the all the 1971 Challenger R/Ts built were also ordered with the Formal Roof option, about 1%, so finding one of those 119 1971 440-6 Challenger R/T Autos that also got the Formal Roof Option would be pretty rare.  And similarly, instead of a '71 if your car was actually a '70 RT/SE V-code, of the 296 built for US only 161 were Autos.  Either way it was very unique, sounds cool.

E-Body Cudas and Challengers are hot right now, especially 70-71s, and so are 68-70 Chargers.  These cars have always been in demand, and now is no different.  I wish I knew a good Charger for sale, I don't, but in particular if your friend is looking for an original car (as opposed to a clone or customized car) you can PM me and I'll forward any info I hear.

- Wade

Thanks for the info. Car had an overhead console and V roof and that is why we  called an "SE"  back in the day. Definitely a 71. Original paint and primer on some of it. Had the standard R/T hood with 440 six pack emblems on it. Road wheels. Side scoops. R/T stripes. Came with a T/A hood also . I traded a spare deck lid to a 71 HEMI Challenger owner for a Gull Wing 71 Spoiler(very rare back in 1980). A good friend years later bought a 1 owner 30K mile  plum crazy original paint 71 HEMI Challenger 4 speed survivor. I told him if he didn't buy it I would. Pic below. The brown HEMI 70 Cuda(original paint southern car) has been sitting since the early 80s when the guy I know bought it. So Wade, I know about the back window not being smaller in 1971 but no S/E designation either? We can take this off line in messages but posted to show the pics which we can't do in a PM. Gary

Quote from: Cudino on August 25, 2021, 03:07:27 PM
I agree with everyone's replies.  There were approximately 700 Hemicudas built in 1970, and while not exciting today the column-shift configuration was fairly common.  As mentioned, the car's options can have a great impact on value, and the Fender Tag will show much (but not all) of this information.  Does the car have a Buildsheet (aka Broadcast Sheet)?  Or has anyone ever looked?  As with a lot of things in this hobby Fender Tags have been faked for years, so additional paperwork (ideally a buildsheet) is really desirable.  Plus, the buildsheet (or order form, or window sticker) shows features that were not included on the Fender Tag, since the tag was only used to show options that required body-modifications.  If the owner hasn't looked the most likely locations for finding a buildsheet are under the back or bottom springs of the front and/or rear seats, and/or wedged up behind the glovebox.  Hemicudas were all built at the Hamtramck plant, who generally left these buildsheets in these areas during assembly, so it is common for Hemicudas to have this document if the original interior is still intact and rodent-free.  So you may find several duplicate copies, or may find none, or may even find one for a car that was next in line in production that just happened to use the same type of seats, luck of the draw.  All 4-speed Hemicudas got Dana60 rearends, but Autos came standard with the 3.23:1 open rear 8-3/4, with other ratios or the Dana60 available as optional axle packages.  Service Replacement Warranty blocks will have a tag riveted to the lower side of the block, and will have a blank (non-stamped) VIN pad just above the oilpan, facing the pass-side wheel.  If the block is indeed a Service Replacement it will have this tag, otherwise it may be a more common over-the-counter unstamped warranty block.  The Auto trans will also have a VIN pad on the passenger side.  For E-bodies only the last 8 digits of the VIN will be stamped on these pads.  As mentioned above, these last 8 digits will also be stamped into the backside of the Radiator support (facing the radiator, to the right of the radiator cap) and on the top of the cowl on the driver's side.  There will also be a full VIN# on the dash VIN tag and on the driver's side door decal.  Here's a site with some great information and examples: https://www.e-bodies.org/buying-your-first-e-body/vin-numbers/

Go-Mango is indeed a cool color, and was extra cost, but the column-shift and non-original motor do hurt, along with a Bench Seat if so equipped.  If the car does not have a buildsheet or documentation other than the fender tag that will also hurt.  If the car has a lot of options that will help, but only if it has documentation to support those options.  Sounds like the body is in good shape, but understandably condition and originality also helps or hurts.  I love these cars, and by description it sounds like this is an intact car that needs some TLC.  However, with the column-shift and non-original motor I think this car will be at the lower end of the $125K-$175K scale, and the only way it could move up higher is if it had great docs and/or great original condition.

As mentioned, pictures of the car, and especially of the Fender Tag and any other documentation, will really help.  Good Luck, and keep us posted!

- Wade

Thanks for the link on numbers. I love Graveyard Carz because I have learned so much about that era of Mopars and I love those cars. I once had a plum Crazy 71 RT/SE V-code auto 391 8 3/4 car. Black vinyl top/interior Challenger. How rare was that? My friend is looking for a 440 4 speed or auto/air 68-70 Charger if you know of any. He has the money for the right car. Gary

Quote from: TOBKOB on August 25, 2021, 09:37:32 PM

QuoteI need a left hand threaded skyhook for my car ? 

BG

I'm not Gary but I have  right hand threaded skyhook... Sorry I couldn't resist...

TOB

You and Bob should both put wanted ads for your parts.