SAAC Forum

Thank you.

Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on April 01, 2023, 02:36:10 PM
Do I vaguely remember that on Forum V.1?  Dan, any way you can post the slide show here or a link to it rather than a bunch of us pestering you to send it?

There are file hosting sites but that would make more for me to keep up with because many of my files get updates and additions as different details come up for discussion or questions are asked.

I have added eight [8] pages to the file on cast aluminum rocker covers since last August for a current total of 36 pages.  The file studies what new Cobras could have been purchased with during most of 1963 and the standard cover assemblies used CSX2201-CSX2589 during late 1963 through 1964. A few ancillaries are covered by installer site and time frame also. The file just touches on covers produced to revised manufacturing processes and the addition of more wooden patterns for 1965 through early 1966 MUSTANG GT350 street cars to inform Cobra owners and rebuilders that not all "hollow letter" cover assemblies late 1963-66 were the same. In the details, nice covers made before 1965 are pretty rare now and unmolested one in great survivor condition are very rare to even collect pictures of. (No, cover assemblies were not dated. 1964-66 cover assemblies did not stay the same long and the use of different wooden patterns and oil fill tube variants makes them very confusing to a casual observer just starting to hunt information.)

I have not thought about it but I think only four or five people have wanted a *.pdf version of file emailed to them and that is from several forums that I participate in. In most of the inquiries I receive, someone is either looking at a part or pairs they can buy or ones they already bought where they want a better idea of what time frame they would have been used.

Quote from: StevePA on March 26, 2023, 08:22:40 AM
Dan
Could I get a copy of your Cobra valave cover slide show?
Email Sprint1963260@icloud.com
Many thanks
Steve

Sent

CSX2001-CSX2589 Cobras and potential clutch system parts compatibility issues.

If you are working on an original CSX2001-CSX2589 Cobra and the car has problems with getting a clutch system back together or it has operational problems, you might want to be aware of some technical topics. All manual transmission CSX2 prefix Cobras, which was all but sixteen each late cars (one prototype and fifteen production cars) and one prototype car used with a FE engine, were equipped with some variant of some model year five bolt bell housing design 260 or 289 c.i.d. engine. The vast majority of these cars came with 1963 or 1964 model year 289 High Performance engines.

In no particular order:

1)   Engine cylinder block assemblies of the five bolt design bell housing type must use the clutch release lever made for 260/289 five bolt design original engines. If somebody installs the design of lever introduced for 1965 model year 289 six bolt engines, the clutch system will not work properly as the functional lengths of features are different. I have been contacted a few times over several years where this was a problem when the installer was not aware that not all levers were the same functionally.



2)   Pilot tips of factory original equipment Borg-Warner T-10 transmissions for 260/289 engines and any Ford FE engine are different with the big block model gears having shorter pilot tips. If a input from a FE engine transmission is used with a 260/289 engine, a special pilot bearing is required to capture the tip of the input shaft.

3)   Some Cobras, street and race, used a gear set with an input adopted from a General Motors version of T-10 transmission. The spline count is the same as the Ford part but the diameter is different. A clutch disc assembly designed for a Ford 260/289 engine of any version alone will not fit!


K (high nickel) set = installed into aluminum cased Cobra transmissions, street and race, introduced sometime in the CSX22xx range it is believed, example CSX2246 had a K set originally, our black car CSX2310 was fitted with a K set. (The K gear ratios originated in some high performance GM cars.) Listed as the alternate gear set in the February 1964 Cobra reconfirmation of registration for roadsters and coupes with the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (F.I.A.) race sanctioning organization. Application Notes:  1) The Ford 289 High Performance clutch disc will not work with the K set input. A disc that will work with the GM input is required because the outer diameters of the Ford and GM splines are different. I used a McLeod® part number 260240 disc in CSX2310 and it has served very well for decades. 2) The pilot tip of the GM design input shaft is smaller in diameter than the O.E. Ford T-10 transmissions and that requires the use of a suitable pilot bearing in the rear end of the engine crankshaft.


4) Not a parts compatibility issue but something to consider, a COBRA lettered cast steel safety bell housing (a.k.a. scatter shield).  After seeing pictures of what happens when there is a flywheel or clutch failure in a Cobra using a stock die cast aluminum bell housing, I have zero interest in sitting in a Cobra with the engine running without a safety bell housing in use. The COBRA lettered models, there were several slight variations over time, are wonderful THE FIRST TIME they have to contain a problem. I have seen the aftermath of a flywheel / clutch failure in a friend's race car with a tachometer tell tale indicating the engine was running over 9,000 rpm when the failure occurred. The driver was not injured. The car chassis was not damaged. The engine and transmission were both seriously damaged, but all the major projectiles were contained. The COBRA housing did not fracture anywhere but it was deformed seriously and deemed not useable anymore.


Safety Housing Side Bar: The manufacturer also sold the same design with "WEDGE" (one of their trade names) or "TIGER" lettering. Other companies made their own versions of safety housings in cast steel for five bolt bell housing engines that work fine in original Cobras.


How about COB/COX60 prefix leaf spring car chassis? Based on records available, most of the cars used five bolt bell housing design engines. Some late cars used six bolt bell housing design engines. It would be important stock parts wise to use the correct lever for the type of cylinder block design used.

Despite the seller's suggestion, none of those chromium plated pieces were used in new 1965 Cobras.

Depends on car version. I would expect, not counting any unusually factory specials or custom orders:
CSX30xx race and S/C = chromium plated 427 engine covers without any ports in them
CSX3101-CSX3200 group = same
CSX3201-CSX3300 with a 428 PI engine, sand cast aluminum "COBRA 427".
CSX3301-CSX3360 = back to chromium plated covers as above

As an accessory of limited availability, Shelby American also had a very rare sand cast COBRA POWERED BY FORD model of cover.

Not every car was the same as specifications changed during each contract group. Answers can often be simple if the chassis number range is specified.

Non-Mustang Fords attend also.

For your information...

The 2023 edition of the International Mustang Meet (the 44th year) is to be held in Fairmont Hot Springs (Anaconda Montana) hosted by the Bridger Mountain Ford Club based in Bozeman Montana.

For more information the website is:

http://immford.com/services/

You are welcome.

The purchase order list shows:
C4JZ-7202-A Trans.Shift Lever with Knob and Boot

C4ZA-7400-J Control Assy.-Trans. Gear Shift


Those numbers mean nothing to me but that is what is listed.

The original post looks like an inquiry about tail shaft housings and 427 Cobras, but how shifting equipment was installed in original 1960s 427 Cobras by Shelby American seems the central question maybe. Said another way, how did Shelby's works get the gear shift lever located exactly where they did?

Degreased transmission and hardware low mile unrestored "1966" 427 Cobra.




Very low mile unrestored "1967" 427 Cobra shift mechanism.

Quote from: coryh on February 03, 2023, 04:30:33 PM
Thanks Dan...always a wealth of information!
     Cory

You are welcome.

I do very little with 427 Cobra specific parts but I have collected some information over the years. I have the original Shelby American office copy of the purchase order numbers by part they had to buy to complete the street chassis A.C. Cars sent them and some information on recommended spares for competition cars.

Caution: If the 427 Cobra parts lists are no more accurate than the Cobra ones, users should take every part number as a starting point for their own research.



The next page of the purchase order file lists another transmission: C6AR-7003-B. Based on pictures, "1966" cars used a particular transmission and "1967" cars used a different one.


The units listed by chassis number are owner provided assembly tag details.

Quote from: Cobra Ned on January 26, 2023, 11:57:58 AM
Generally, "slabside" refers to a replica rather than a genuine Cobra.

+1

I sold two new old stock ones for $55 each during 2019 and had a hard time finding buyers until one sold for auction for several hundred.  My $55 was too much each until the auction.

Quote from: Cobra Pack on January 13, 2023, 09:48:40 AM

Quote from: Dan Case on January 12, 2023, 04:20:32 PM

The mystery time frame for production Cobra case materials was roughly between when iron cased standard Ford units were used for CSX2115 (completed as a car June 1963), CSX2125 with iron cases, and  the special Cobra transmissions with aluminum cases that appeared by the time CSX2136-2138 were completed (completed as SAI team race cars about August 1963). CSX2126 would NOT be in the discussion because it was finished before CSX2080.

Dan - What is your view of the Sebring cars (CSX2127-CSX2129)?  Did they originally use iron or aluminum T-10s?

I do not have a view so to speak, I am open to initial completion evidence if someone has it. Myself, I do not have any dated positive identification period pictures of those three cars being completed the first time.