SAAC Forum

      B.A.T..........Bring-A-Trailer..........FULL OF MONEY!

      If one watches BAT with any regularity, one would realize that for some reason the public is responding favorably to this format, and in its' bidding participation to the point of garnering quite the bids for much of that presented there.         

      aka. If I wanted to sell something, at this point in time BAT is looking like an awfully good place to do it!   

      Scott.

     NGK #WR5     

     Scott.

Quote from: mlplunkett on September 01, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
So the early 289 blocks are stronger than a 302 roller block?

     YES!   

Quote from: gt350hr on September 01, 2021, 03:37:15 PM
   Use "retro fit" tie bar lifters and it's a breeze.

     YES!     

     But just costs more!     

     Scott.

Quote from: mlplunkett on August 30, 2021, 11:27:26 AM
I think I'll have upwards of 450 HP.

Quote from: gt350hr on August 31, 2021, 10:37:23 AM
Late model hyd roller blocks ................Keep the RPMs down............... If not abused , it will work fine.

      Randy has provided very sage advice, and I agree, but would like to add an emphasis on the "if not abused" part of the statement, as although in instances these blocks have been pushed to this level, and even beyond it for many, but understand for some others, the results,........well.........not so good.     

      Do understand that these O.E.M. blocks were not truly engineered to tolerate such loads, and although as we have practiced in the performance world since its' inception, we push the envelope until realizing failures, that at an unacceptable rate, and then will draw a new line in the sand as to where 'WE' think the components are suitable; but understand that this line is not as definitive as one may often think, and failures, though they should not be necessarily unexpected, are surely unappreciated.     

      Please realize that my perspective is one of a person who is not a real mechanical engineer, and probably suffers from trying to over-build anything I come into contact with; as if the sum of the metal in the structure can be made greater or there is room for one more bolt or just a larger one, then why not mentality.  But ya-know, the guys in battle, in the tank with the most steel armor between them and the munitions being thrust in their direction, usually feel more comfortable and generally will experience better results in survivability   

      Scott.

Quote from: mlplunkett on August 30, 2021, 11:27:26 AM
Is anyone aware of anything about these blocks that would prevent me from using all the other Shelby external parts (intake, carb, valve covers, distributor, competition oil pan, etc.) to make this modern block look like a 289?

      To the best of my memory, the only components not compatible between the O.E.M. production blocks would be the head retention fasteners (the BOSS 302 blocks utilizes fasteners with are about 1/2" longer), a few other fasteners, the cam bearings, and perhaps a little "fitting" of the oil pan.

      Now I'm not sure how much like an O.E.M. 289 block you expect to try and make any of the current production aftermarket blocks to be, but the castings are quite different in external appearances.

      If I were wanting an improved block over the production unit, but that replicated the originals' appearance, the one to find is the older Ford Motorsport M-6010-A4 unit (though these were not intended for the .125+ over-bore); but these are not easily found as they are searched for by many others with the same intent.     

     Scott.
 

Quote from: Dan Case on August 24, 2021, 11:09:18 AM
Most Cobra owners have little interest in fine details. 

There are Cobra, 427 Cobra, and GT40 owners that start efforts to return typical average cars to more day one configuration but only a few.

The person that buys an average Cobra and just keeps it two or three years just is not going to care all that much in my experience.

Last but not least, buy an average Cobra, spend ten years and tens of thousands on "original" parts and the value at auction has not changed at all. Buy a car spend $150,000 or more on it and you still have probably not changed its market value. From that perspective, why bother on details unless you plan on keeping the car the rest of your life no matter what the 'market' does.

      Yes, I do understand your above statements as being so, as this has also been my observation of many of the cars that I have seen.  This I can only attribute to the fact the these owners apparently are demonstrating their ability to afford these vehicles (for example particularly when referencing Cobras & GT40's), but are not really true enthusiast of the past period in history of the time when these cars were making such history.  Although as being experienced today, the current investment value opportunities will in the future be a continued history of the cars, but it is not the celebrated history that is the impetus for these considerations; but perhaps is becoming and is or will be the driving force for value from here though.     

      I'm not against realizing the these cars were modified in period, and I do actually find such "in-period" modifications (particularly for performance & racing) acceptable (perhaps I'm considered a "Day-Two" guy     ) and my original posting was voicing such as I presumed that the Weber set-up as pictured perhaps really wasn't "original" or "day-one" as the car first appeared, but rather displayed how the vehicles really were used at the time of there greatness, and not just by O.E.M. supported instances, and should be appreciated as such.  But rather in my first posting I was commenting on the fact that although I don't expect that these cars as raced in this period of their greatness should necessarily be restored to day-one condition, but perhaps greater sins that should not be present, for example say: an MSD red painted coil mounted with a chrome bracket, a set of bright yellow Accell wires, a new bare bright aluminum radiator and I don't like the looks of the cheap, pin-thru the radiator mounted plastic electric fans , a polished carburetor with the red Edelbrock badge staring at ya, Jet-Hot ceramic coated headers, two hundred pounds of every hose being stainless steel braided with colorful hose ends and other obviously not in period stuff.     

     Not necessarily looking for perfection in every little nit, but just hopping for some to try a little harder at, even if it ain't original, providing a more reasonable in period presentation.   

     Scott.

Quote from: Dan Case on August 22, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
The Fafnir brand small male rod ends.................... In tension they are quite strong. They were originally designed as aircraft parts and much stronger and fatigue resistant than you might think. Many of the mechanical fuel injection systems for the 1960s used the same brand and size parts also. They are not the cheap zinc die cast rod ends sold by most common speed part merchants in that time frame.

     I agree completely with this statement, but I think you missed the point I was trying to convey ; it's not the choice of materials that I was commenting on, but rather the execution of the installation.  The manufacture will advise, and it should be obvious, that the shorter the exposed threaded (weaker) stem length the better, and so it is wisely practiced.        

Quote
The weakest pieces in that picture are the spindles (throttle plate shafts) shafts. The steel E. Weber used was very soft carbon steel in a fully annealed condition which they machined down to very thin cross sections in the throttle bores. Think about coat hanger wire strength. The shafts take permanent twists and bends very easily. The ends of the spindles are very weak. The metal is so soft the levers will damage the shaft ends if allowed to wallow on them.

     Yep, and the same is true of many throttle shafts in other applications.  I'm not knowledgeable as to any real reason(s) why, but perhaps this is due to the tendency of this small of a round steel shaft, particularly with the machined interruptions in its' profile to not remain adequately strait/true upon heat-treatment; this creating a function problem (and cost to rectify?) with the close fitment of the throttle shaft bore requirements in the body. 

     This is another reason, although not "correct" for this example, that 'center-pull' linkage, this where the link from the intake mounting to the throttle shaft lever is mounted between the two carburetors rather than as depicted acting at the end of the set of two, as this reduces load in length and the tendency of the shafts to adopt a twist, this resulting in the offsetting the throttle butterflies in seating and the particularly sensitive to tuning, initial timing of position in rotation.     

Quote
Only  few that I know of have the actual small parts Shelby American installed. Original parts are so rare it is impractical for owners and restorers to use everything original. 

     And yes, I understand this but my thought is when I see the desperation and expense put forth for say a "proper" date-coded radiator cap, oil/air filter element (we have had customers asking for correct date-coded rod & main bearings even!), then I seem to think the "proper", more visible and significant components can be had, if one truly tried.  And as you stated, although perhaps rare as far as being as originally installed here, much of these small items were "buy-outs" from suppliers commonly existing inventories vs. some truly rare one-off manufacturing endeavors.     

     Scott.

Quote from: Royce Peterson on August 11, 2021, 10:06:50 PM
Ideally the fuel pressure gage, liquid filled or not, needs to be mounted remotely from the engine so that it doesn't get hot.

     And also,........... fuel pressure gauges should not be located on the engine due to the vibration that can/will cause failure of the, to delicate to tolerate such, internal bellows/bourdon-tube/mechanism etc., which can lead to disastrous results!   

     Besides, what good is a fuel pressure gauge mounted under the hood, that can only be observed at idle, or even if the R.P.M.'s are raised, under no load, hence low fuel volume requirement,...........this proving not much of a test?     

     Scott.

Quote from: FL SAAC on July 29, 2021, 01:12:23 PM
Hands down  + 1

      Except for the stupid proprietary "Fork-Finger-Counter-Weights", those get a big........... "THUMBS-DOWN"!       

      But, they have proven to be of excellent marketing value!         

      Scott.

Quote from: Drew Pojedinec on July 28, 2021, 06:10:32 AM
With engine idling, climb on top of engine and look into venturi.

     When doing this just don't choose to snap open the throttle, as if it should choose to back-fire,.............well, it can be a little toasty for the eye brows!        

     Don't ask me how I know!     

     Scott.

Quote from: Silver Bullitt on July 17, 2021, 01:16:55 AM

     I really like these period engine photos, as often even with the greatest of efforts in old race car restorations it just seems to often these things are exhibited just not as they actually were and also often with more modern components managing to be included in the engine compartment.
     But the purpose of my posting is that as much as I like this photo, but the execution in the Heim Joint or spherical rod ends utilized for the function of the throttle linkage just stands out as a potential failure (a.k.a. a F#@k-UP!); and this provides an opportunity to point out to others something not to do.  Namely this being the excessive exposure of the threaded sections of the rod-ends to the hex-links as this makes for weakness of the connector assembly enhancing the possibility of bending, and or perhaps failure do to just a lack of reasonable tread engagement of the link.     

     Just food for thought; and it was just buggin' me each time I looked at it!   

     Scott.

Quote from: mygt350 on July 20, 2021, 03:40:32 PM
................ the outer bearing on a 31 spline carrier has larger dimension which would require smaller (slim line) bearing for use in a 28 spline case. Normal outer bearing if used in a 31 spline carrier, slim line used in 28 spline carrier.

    Not exactly.  As I recall, the earlier ('57 thru say '65 +/-) 9-inch carriers used a smaller I.D. bearing of 1.625" with an O.D. race of 2.891"; which I presume proved to provide insufficient material thickness of the bearing snouts to support the increased power as time passed and particularly with the larger bore I.D.'s for the 31-spline applications, so then 1.781" I.D. was adopted ('64 or so thru the end of production) for either the 28- or 31-spline fitments with a 3.062" O.D. this also often referred to as the "Big-Bearing", but then later ('69 +/- thru the end of production) the 2.891" O.D. returned, this leading to the so-called "slim-line" bearing, but more frequently referred as the (later) "Small-Bearing", as used with either the 28- or 31-spline axles.   

    Or something like that!     

    Scott.

    P.S. Since Randy beat me to it while I was hen-pecking I'm just adding some more B.S.     

Quote from: mygt350 on July 20, 2021, 01:29:51 PM
Is the side gear in a 28-spline 9 inch housing same outer diameter as a 31-spline side gear in same housing?
Will 28 and 31 spline axle gear fit in same half?

     In my experience yes, as I have changed many a 28-spine carrier housing to 31-spline; but this does require boring the bearing support snouts up in diameter to allow the larger axle shaft to enter the carrier to engage the 31-spline side gear.     

     Scott.

Quote from: tesgt350 on July 20, 2021, 06:59:19 AM
Wouldn't that be the same as saying Bass Pro Shop is also guilty if someone shoots someone using a Gun they just Bought from them the day before?

    Not a all!   

    Now, perhaps if they chose to sell "Saturday-Night-Specials" for multitudes of their true market value, say 'on line' ('FREE' freight to L.A. or Chicago!  ), with the illusion, but not the statement, that they are going to fail to process, or just loose the paperwork (ATF Form 4473), making the weapon untraceable,..............well, who do you think they would be attempting to do business with?   

    It's not just the act of having sold the product that may at some point in the unforeseen future be involved in an illegal act, but rather the perceived intent of the practice in the act, and the fact of the change this may have in the business relationship and with whom.  This does prove to be somewhat of a difficult subject to define, but 'REASONABLE' interpretation is what is required, this from an educated, moral and just society, which we may be suffering from the loss of at this point.     

    I think, and I'm willing to bet as do many others, that the only reason someone is willing to pay something far greater than the normally anticipated value for, and that for what purpose the seller has placed the auction reserve of, is not the "scrap", but rather the added value of the............ paper-work,............ which this value is capitalized upon by doing what illegal act?!     

    Scott.

Quote from: nctrucks on July 19, 2021, 12:12:27 PM
Bidding got to 5,300  The reserve was not met.  Copart is rerunning it.

     It may not be illegal to auction off scrap, but with a reserve in excess of the obvious scrap metal value, it makes one wonder: aren't they (Copart) with the successful sale of this........thing, going to be complicit in the illegal activity of, although will be lauded as something else, but more simply and accurately described as "V.I.N. swapping"?       

     The legal train of thought here is as follows; in the process where one party purchases a "thing" from another for far less than the apparent true value, then the receiving party may perhaps have the responsibility of being concerned as to whether the selling party actually has legal title to such.  And failure here depending on further circumstances may get one a free ride wearing some not so comfortable bracelets on the taxpayer's dime.  So if, in this case Copart, who should be very knowledgeable as to the true market value of scrap, chooses to market this thing for a multitude in excess of its' true scrap value, who are they attempting to do business with?     

     Scott.