Author Topic: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film  (Read 7451 times)

J_Speegle

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2020, 03:58:31 AM »
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct........

The sparks later in the film could just as easily be from a number of other processes including welding at this point and with no additional supporting evidence. This would open up a much larger period of production.
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

J_Speegle

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2020, 01:29:18 PM »
Next scene following along with the way the film presents them. At about 2:00 minutes in.  Easy to see that this car represents a period or car earlier in its conversion than the cars were viewed earlier in the film. The film makers apparently made no effort to show the conversion in assembly order just some random pictures to represent the total conversion. Only a very small part of the over all film

Taken low from the front of one dark Mustang. 

AL9-




It appears to show a worker at the passenger rear of the car welding at the rear of the car. My current thought would be he is welding on the forward under ride frame bracket for under-ride cars or could be from an earlier period and the results of trimming/shaping the Mustangs rearend bumper (the rubber ones) brackets on over-ride cars .  Between him and the camera we see a collection of parts and possibly tools on the concrete floor highlighted from behind by the sparks produced by the welding

AL10-



For discussion purposes I've place arrows to just some of the items that may be of interest

Orange - We see the factory 66 Mustang grill with the blacked out area in the center still there ( to be cleaned off later in the conversion process and the lack of the running horse emblem at this point in the process

Green - Appears to me to be chrome edge of the rim suggesting this is one of the chromed Magnum 500 wheels

Light Blue - Large tool? Possibly impact gun with handle facing camera. Hard to tell for sure given the picture and angle

Yellow - Bottom edge/surface of oil pan.   Factory Mustang?  or COBRA? Looks to me on this car its the stamped steel factory Mustang style at this time.

Red - Thought this might be the passenger side tie rod assembly at first but the shadow above appears to show the adjustment clamps and bolts of one at the time installed on the car. A wrench?  Hard to tell with seeing only an outline and if we could change the angle of view it might be easier to make out. Around it are allot of small items possibly nuts and bolts.

Purple - Workers coveralls

Same arrow identifications for the following clip from the same screen - Less sparks showing in this screen capture maybe the angle of the work changed

AL11-




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More to follow
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 07:13:03 PM by J_Speegle »
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Bob Gaines

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2020, 03:36:09 PM »
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

s2ms

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2020, 04:35:42 PM »
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.

This is just after Shelby drives through the guard booth in the 427 Cobra and parks next to the 66 GT350.  The calendar in the guard booth is plainly visible, not quite good enough resolution to clearly see the details but you can see the 1st day of the month is a Tuesday and there are 31 days.  The only 1966 calendar that matches that is March.  The race shop footage at the 2:53 mark matches this as we see what appears to be P/1015 still mostly in it's Daytona configuration.

The assumption of course is that the sequences showing the calendar, 66 GT350 production, and race shop footage were all shot at about the same time. That seems likely IMO, it makes sense journalists coming from France would do it all in the same trip.



« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 12:19:24 AM by s2ms »
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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2020, 04:45:43 PM »
If SAAC was still giving out Eagle Eye rewards, there would be a bunch connected to this discussion.  Amazing detective work here! 8)

Side-Oilers

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2020, 04:55:09 PM »
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.

This is just after Shelby drives through the guard booth in the 427 Cobra and parks next to the 66 GT350.  The calendar in the guard booth is plainly visible, not quite good enough resolution to clearly see the details but you can see the 1st day of the month is a Tuesday and there are 31 days.  The only 1966 calendar that matches that is March.  The race shop footage at the 2:53 mark matches this as we see what appears to be P/1015 still mostly in it's Daytona configuration.

The assumption of course is that the sequences showing the calendar, 66 GT350 production, and race shop footage were all shot at about the same time. That seems likely IMO, it makes sense journalists coming from France would do it all in the same trip.



Fantastic sleuthing by everyone!!
Current:
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Kirkham Cobra 427

J_Speegle

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2020, 05:03:56 PM »
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.

Nice fine Dave.  Wonder if that matches a delivery of three coupe also.

In any case everyone looking and sharing their findings in a somewhat orderly way has provided insight as we hoped it would.
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SFM6S087

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2020, 05:21:24 AM »
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.

Iím glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.

But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350ís. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, Iíve just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.

If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350ís, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we donít disrupt the great flow of information going on here.

Steve

Bob Gaines

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2020, 10:56:22 AM »
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.

Iím glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.

But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350ís. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, Iíve just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.

If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350ís, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we donít disrupt the great flow of information going on here.

Steve
I suppose that you forget we have established that the start and stop had happened before . That was in late 65 and early 66 production. We have also established that at least it had started back up again by 67 production. It is reasonable to assume that a attempt was made ASAP given the cost saving incentive after the time frame of the film . That is the reason for my statement.     
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SFM6S087

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2020, 02:56:05 PM »
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.

Iím glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.

But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350ís. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, Iíve just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.

If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350ís, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we donít disrupt the great flow of information going on here.

Steve
I suppose that you forget we have established that the start and stop had happened before . That was in late 65 and early 66 production. We have also established that at least it had started back up again by 67 production. It is reasonable to assume that a attempt was made ASAP given the cost saving incentive after the time frame of the film . That is the reason for my statement.   

What was established is that a small handful of late 1965 & carryover GT350ís received black painted intakes Ė which certainly means those were installed at Ford. No other 1965-66 GT350ís have been proven to have received any of their Shelby components at Ford during the 1965-66 production run.

Either way, you caught me in the one time I forgot to mention the black painted intake cars in my post. Hereís what I should have written.

ďIíve just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run (with the exception of the small handful of carryover cars that received black painted intakes) - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.

I stand corrected.

But in your original post you stated, ďIt is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion.Ē That is why I responded to your post. Perhaps you meant the point in the 1966 calendar year that 1967 GT350's were being produced. But this is a topic about a 1966 film of 1966 GT350's in the 1966 GT350 section of the forum. So many, if not most, people will interpret your comment as applying to the production of 1966 GT350's.

My point was that it has not been established that at any point Ford installed any Shelby engine components on any 1966 GT350 (other than the few carryovers with black painted intakes.)

If you wish to state that in the production of the 1967 cars Ford did that I wonít contest that. But please make the "1967 cars" part of that clear in your post. As you've taught me so well, context matters.

Steve
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 01:42:33 AM by SFM6S087 »

J_Speegle

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2020, 03:15:05 PM »
Guys can we take this discussion back to the other thread? 

Not sure if its helpful for everyone else to have the same focus (when and if the engines were converted ........) in multiple threads/scattered all over the place.   The film IMHO is not about when the engines were converted nor was the section focused on the assembly line done for just that reason. I started the thread in the hopes that the focus on just what we see in the film, just the "facts" or observations as presented in the film and that the "when" and "if" could stay where it was started.  Guess I failed.

But if you want to - I don't make the rules and will stop posting any more of the film so that I don't take away from your new focus here.

Just my observation and choice. Honestly I grow tired of this.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 03:17:25 PM by J_Speegle »
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OldGuy

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2020, 03:30:18 PM »
Jeff, PLEASE don't stop what you started. This french film has stimulated the most interest that SAAC has seen in a while. This is GOOD STUFF! It helps take our minds off of the Corona virus and get us back to the stuff that we love.

For those that want to have a pissing contest, I think it should be relegated to PM's where feelings can be aired.

Please continue. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has learned from the film and the analysis of same.

Frank

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2020, 04:33:26 PM »
   Jeff,
     I have to agree with Frank and others. SAI did not operate like FoMoCo and vice versa. THIS film is a window into what happened , not what has been established over the years form well meaning people who weren't there. SAI was a modification facility not a "production facility" aimed at pushing out 10 every hour . With all of the modifications 10 a day would be a stretch and is the obvious reason for "Autolite" shocks and under ride bars. The interior still had to come out for windows and scoops. Taking apart ten cars requires a fair amount of room and I think Bruce Junor said they usually had twenty "in process" on any given day.
   Just my two cents worth of opinion.
      Randy
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s2ms

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2020, 04:44:23 PM »
Perhaps what is needed is a separate thread, not tied to the French film, specifically about whether Ford or SAI installed the engines in late 65-66 GT350's. The film is just one piece of compelling evidence but IMO the topic deserves it's own thread to discuss all the evidence. 
Dave - 6S1757

JD

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Re: Clips and discussion of the 1966 Shelby French Film
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2020, 04:52:07 PM »
Jeff, PLEASE don't stop what you started. This french film has stimulated the most interest that SAAC has seen in a while. This is GOOD STUFF! It helps take our minds off of the Corona virus and get us back to the stuff that we love.

For those that want to have a pissing contest, I think it should be relegated to PM's where feelings can be aired.

Please continue. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has learned from the film and the analysis of same.

Frank

+1
'67 Shelby Headlight Bucket Grommets https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=254.0
'67 Shelby Lower Grille Edge Protective Strip https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1237.0