Author Topic: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap  (Read 2250 times)

427hunter

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my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« on: October 26, 2020, 09:42:31 PM »
I must first start with the good quality reproduction gas gap that always bothered me because the snake looks to be missing a chromosome. So the hunt began for a NOS service part  S2MS-9030-A, it didn't take long before it was in my hands and on the car. To my surprise when they made the cap they put it together wrong and the snake was upside down! I compared it to the old and thought no big deal I'll just bend the large tab and spin it around, no dice! The stud for the cable prevented the cap from rotating to the upright position, oh and the tab snapped off. So out came the Dremel and off came the studs that hold the cap together. I re-drilled the mounting holes, used the miller 211 to weld on new mounting ears and weld the ends of the mounting studs to hold the cap together again and voila ! A nos-ish pos part...… But at least the snake looks healthy.     
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Doug C

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 10:17:35 PM »
I am looking for an NOS cap if you know of one please PM me.   Thanks Doug

427hunter

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 10:30:51 PM »
I would make sure it's not the upside down snake  ;D
“You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means”

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silverton_ford

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2020, 12:20:38 AM »
I found an NOS upside down snake gas cap at a swap meet once, luckily the seller had two so I was able to figure out which one was correct.

Dan Case

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2020, 11:34:17 AM »
In the mid 1970s Roger H. (I am not going to try and spell his name.) published advertisements asking enthusiasts to go to their local Ford dealers and order at least one 1966 MUSTANG GT350 gas cap. Better yet, go to several dealers and order at least one. Still better order two or more.

At the time the caps were obsolete but still in the Ford parts systems computers. Roger explained that the way Ford worked if enough back orders came in Ford would get somebody to make parts.  The plan worked and Ford had fresh caps made. At the time they were NEW REPLACEMENT STOCK parts.

As soon as people started getting NEW caps they started showing up at Mustang Club of America and SAAC events and naturally people started comparing the NEW caps to originals on the plentiful unrestored cars still around in the 1970s.

The NEW caps came in Ford service part boxes but the NEW caps were not the same in every detail as the original assembly line parts.  Some of us stood around back then discussing how these NEW caps were going to cause confusion from now on.

As late as 1986-88 that trick would still work for selected 1960s parts, i.e. if enough back orders were registered Ford would find somebody to make parts. That did/does not mean that reissue or replacement parts were automatically just like assembly line parts. New replacement parts might not have been made by the original supplier, even if that assembly line supplier was still in business.

I don’t recall the fine details of 1966s caps, assembly line and not, we studied in the 1970s but your post pulled up the memory of discussing how the 1970s replacement caps (now New Old Replacement Stock) would be viewed in the future back four plus decades ago.
Dan Case
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427hunter

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2020, 11:54:23 AM »
In the mid 1970s Roger H. (I am not going to try and spell his name.) published advertisements asking enthusiasts to go to their local Ford dealers and order at least one 1966 MUSTANG GT350 gas cap. Better yet, go to several dealers and order at least one. Still better order two or more.

At the time the caps were obsolete but still in the Ford parts systems computers. Roger explained that the way Ford worked if enough back orders came in Ford would get somebody to make parts.  The plan worked and Ford had fresh caps made. At the time they were NEW REPLACEMENT STOCK parts.

As soon as people started getting NEW caps they started showing up at Mustang Club of America and SAAC events and naturally people started comparing the NEW caps to originals on the plentiful unrestored cars still around in the 1970s.

The NEW caps came in Ford service part boxes but the NEW caps were not the same in every detail as the original assembly line parts.  Some of us stood around back then discussing how these NEW caps were going to cause confusion from now on.

As late as 1986-88 that trick would still work for selected 1960s parts, i.e. if enough back orders were registered Ford would find somebody to make parts. That did/does not mean that reissue or replacement parts were automatically just like assembly line parts. New replacement parts might not have been made by the original supplier, even if that assembly line supplier was still in business.

I don’t recall the fine details of 1966s caps, assembly line and not, we studied in the 1970s but your post pulled up the memory of discussing how the 1970s replacement caps (now New Old Replacement Stock) would be viewed in the future back four plus decades ago.


This is a good history lesson, I had no idea!

BTW I had the cap apart and the inside ring is marked SM and the ford part number is cast in the chromed outer ring, it's unmarked otherwise.
“You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means”

Inigo Montoya

“This life’s hard, man, but it’s harder if you’re stupid”

Jackie Brown


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Dan Case

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2020, 12:23:34 PM »
Between about 1971 and 1978 just about every Cobra, 427 Cobra, and any version of Shelby prepared Mustang part had been reissued and or reproduced both FOR THE FIRST TIME. Maier Racing, Valley Ford Parts, Cobra Performance, and others tended to specialize on certain models.   

From memory none of the people commissioning new made parts were trying to pass them off as assembly line parts. I knew or talked with some of them back then, friendly fun loving people for the most part. There was a demand for Shelby everything and they filled the demand. Customizing Mustangs (or any Ford) with "Shelby parts" was big business and as the Mustang Club of America developed out of a local Atlanta Mustang club and SAAC condensed Shelby related clubs under one roof so to speak the demand got higher.


By the mid 1980s the second round of reissues and or reproductions was well under way.  In 1984 I was visiting with one of the shop owners that commissioned dozens of new “Shelby” parts on his own. That day in January 1984 I sat in his office and he showed me a sample of his latest reproduction. It was his version of C3RA 427 Cobra 2” round “COBRA” mascot emblem.  He had a sample of a freshly made one and the “old” one he had copied. I laughed and told him he just reproduced a reproduction, i.e. his “original” was an earlier reproduction a company in California had made. He shrugged his shoulders and indicated it wouldn’t matter as customers would buy all he would care to make. Since then I have seen a reproduction of that reproduction.

Just because (insert anybody’s name or relationship) has had part X on the shelf since let’s say 1979 DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT IS AN ASSEMBLY LINE PART.  Tiny wire clips to COBRA intake manifolds and everything else you can imagine has been replaced by new product at least once since the 1970s.

Another "Shelby" issue, especially for Cobras, is that many of the parts used to build new cars would not have been the same thing you got through the Shelby American parts department or a Ford dealer for service. I will use ball bearings as an example. AC Cars used British made bearings and suppliers to make the cars. Shelby American offered bearings made for the same jobs but made in America and sometimes by different companies than AC Cars used. Even official Bills of Material and service part books have to be used carefully if originality is important. Street and race SA often used one thing and sold something else for the application.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 12:34:56 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 02:33:11 PM »
   Roger Hodyka worked in the Ford Parts warehouse in MI. he certainly knew how the system worked. He gave me "lots" of alerts regarding significant parts availability. For example I bought THE last original Cyclone made '66 H pipe Ford had. He left Ford to start a body building gym.
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Dan Case

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 02:56:00 PM »
 
   Roger Hodyka worked in the Ford Parts warehouse in MI. he certainly knew how the system worked. He gave me "lots" of alerts regarding significant parts availability. For example I bought THE last original Cyclone made '66 H pipe Ford had. He left Ford to start a body building gym.

That's him.

He was also the person that obtained 'a shoebox full' (his words to me by phone) of blank Cobra, 427 Cobra, and Shelby VIN tags when Shelby American shut down. I tried to get him to put a number on that box full. Hundreds was as close as he would say. So?

So, for Cobras that meant if you owned one and wanted a bright shiny new VIN tag (a.ka. footbox tag) he would stamp one for you. Countless Cobras got their original tags replaced and countless Cobras that didn’t originally have tags got tags that way. They were genuine blanks from AC Cars Ltd. just no numbers stamped. He made no attempt to replicate the exact characters AC and SA used. In my photo collection around 11% of cars that originally had tags have replacement tags now and many have characteristics of ones obtained from Roger. About fifteen years ago he told me that he was down to just one blank tag per car type and he was keeping them. (There was also someone in the UK that had a cache of leftover AC Cars tag blanks. I corresponded with him also and all those tags got scattered over time to whoever wanted one. Original blanks stamped by somebody besides the factories have caused all kinds of fun and games.)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 03:00:50 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
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silverton_ford

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 03:10:45 PM »
   Roger Hodyka worked in the Ford Parts warehouse in MI. he certainly knew how the system worked. He gave me "lots" of alerts regarding significant parts availability. For example I bought THE last original Cyclone made '66 H pipe Ford had. He left Ford to start a body building gym.

That's him.

He was also the person that obtained 'a shoebox full' (his words to me by phone) of blank Cobra, 427 Cobra, and Shelby VIN tags when Shelby American shut down. I tried to get him to put a number on that box full. Hundreds was as close as he would say. So?

So, for Cobras that meant if you owned one and wanted a bright shiny new VIN tag (a.ka. footbox tag) he would stamp one for you. Countless Cobras got their original tags replaced and countless Cobras that didn’t originally have tags got tags that way. They were genuine blanks from AC Cars Ltd. just no numbers stamped. He made no attempt to replicate the exact characters AC and SA used. In my photo collection around 11% of cars that originally had tags have replacement tags now and many have characteristics of ones obtained from Roger. About fifteen years ago he told me that he was down to just one blank tag per car type and he was keeping them. (There was also someone in the UK that had a cache of leftover AC Cars tag blanks. I corresponded with him also and all those tags got scattered over time to whoever wanted one. Original blanks stamped by somebody besides the factories have caused all kinds of fun and games.)

Dan this came up in discussion on the 1966 GT350 currently on Bring A Trailer. 6S1341.  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ford-mustang-223/   I was looking through my old Shelby American magazines and in The Marque Volume 1 Issue 1 and Issue 2 Roger ran an add for this VIN tag service.  Photo attached of the ad.

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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 03:14:50 PM »
   Roger Hodyka worked in the Ford Parts warehouse in MI. he certainly knew how the system worked. He gave me "lots" of alerts regarding significant parts availability. For example I bought THE last original Cyclone made '66 H pipe Ford had. He left Ford to start a body building gym.

That's him.

He was also the person that obtained 'a shoebox full' (his words to me by phone) of blank Cobra, 427 Cobra, and Shelby VIN tags when Shelby American shut down. I tried to get him to put a number on that box full. Hundreds was as close as he would say. So?

So, for Cobras that meant if you owned one and wanted a bright shiny new VIN tag (a.ka. footbox tag) he would stamp one for you. Countless Cobras got their original tags replaced and countless Cobras that didn’t originally have tags got tags that way. They were genuine blanks from AC Cars Ltd. just no numbers stamped. He made no attempt to replicate the exact characters AC and SA used. In my photo collection around 11% of cars that originally had tags have replacement tags now and many have characteristics of ones obtained from Roger. About fifteen years ago he told me that he was down to just one blank tag per car type and he was keeping them. (There was also someone in the UK that had a cache of leftover AC Cars tag blanks. I corresponded with him also and all those tags got scattered over time to whoever wanted one. Original blanks stamped by somebody besides the factories have caused all kinds of fun and games.)

Dan this came up in discussion on the 1966 GT350 currently on Bring A Trailer. 6S1341.  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ford-mustang-223/   I was looking through my old Shelby American magazines and in The Marque Volume 1 Issue 1 and Issue 2 Roger ran an add for this VIN tag service.  Photo attached of the ad.

Changed the meaning of "original VIN tag" for many of us. Now we try to tell if tag rivets have ever been messed with (I won't remove one installed by AC or Shelby.) In Cobras and 427 Cobras it is rare to find a tag that has never been removed. (No I don't want to give the clues away.) When we had SFM5S142 I never bothered the tag rivets. We could read the Ford stamp on the underside.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 03:19:29 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2020, 03:50:52 PM »
  ;) Like I said , he knew the system. Ford supported my Boss 302 engine development program because of Roger.
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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2020, 11:55:24 AM »
   Roger Hodyka worked in the Ford Parts warehouse in MI. he certainly knew how the system worked. He gave me "lots" of alerts regarding significant parts availability. For example I bought THE last original Cyclone made '66 H pipe Ford had. He left Ford to start a body building gym.

That's him.

He was also the person that obtained 'a shoebox full' (his words to me by phone) of blank Cobra, 427 Cobra, and Shelby VIN tags when Shelby American shut down. I tried to get him to put a number on that box full. Hundreds was as close as he would say. So?

So, for Cobras that meant if you owned one and wanted a bright shiny new VIN tag (a.ka. footbox tag) he would stamp one for you. Countless Cobras got their original tags replaced and countless Cobras that didn’t originally have tags got tags that way. They were genuine blanks from AC Cars Ltd. just no numbers stamped. He made no attempt to replicate the exact characters AC and SA used. In my photo collection around 11% of cars that originally had tags have replacement tags now and many have characteristics of ones obtained from Roger. About fifteen years ago he told me that he was down to just one blank tag per car type and he was keeping them. (There was also someone in the UK that had a cache of leftover AC Cars tag blanks. I corresponded with him also and all those tags got scattered over time to whoever wanted one. Original blanks stamped by somebody besides the factories have caused all kinds of fun and games.)

Dan this came up in discussion on the 1966 GT350 currently on Bring A Trailer. 6S1341.  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ford-mustang-223/   I was looking through my old Shelby American magazines and in The Marque Volume 1 Issue 1 and Issue 2 Roger ran an add for this VIN tag service.  Photo attached of the ad.
funny how when reading Randy's post above that name SOUNDED familiar Brian. LOL. I wonder what Gym he started here in Mi?  Gary
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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2020, 02:24:04 PM »
  Mike Chanter was one of Roger's best friends and also worked at Ford . IIRC  Mike said Roger passed away from cancer. Roger and i became friends when he had his dual Paxton supercharged Hertz car. (maybe 6S669?) Too many years have passed to be sure on the vin. Jeff Burgy also knew roger well.
    Randy
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Re: my experience with an nos S2MS-9030A gas cap
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2020, 12:33:54 PM »
  Mike Chanter was one of Roger's best friends and also worked at Ford . IIRC  Mike said Roger passed away from cancer. Roger and i became friends when he had his dual Paxton supercharged Hertz car. (maybe 6S669?) Too many years have passed to be sure on the vin. Jeff Burgy also knew roger well.
    Randy
Must have been fairly recent.  I last saw Roger at the 2019 All Ford Nationals in Carlisle when I bought a couple of books from him.  Super nice guy and I enjoyed the time I spent with him talking about a variety of subjects, not all Shelby or car related.  Hope what you say is not true.
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