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Advice or tips for my 9" upgrade

Started by roddster, November 30, 2020, 10:31:46 AM

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gt350hr

Quote from: Royce Peterson on December 03, 2020, 06:19:22 PM
Note that Ford didn't use a crush sleeve in the 31 spline applications like the Cougar GT-E or the Shelby Mustangs. 428CJ Mustang / Cougar / Comet / Fairlane, Boss 302 Mustang / Cougar, Boss 429 Mustang / Cougar, Boss 351 Mustang, 429 CJ / SCJ Mustang / Cougar / Comet / Fairlane etc. In those applications it is a solid steel spacer that does not get replaced every time.

Quote from: gt350hr on December 03, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
   The FIRST weak link in any 9" is the crush sleeve or "pinion bearing preload spacer". The "crush sleeve" used by many manufacturers , is a good "automotive production" way of setting diffs up. If a solid , select fit "aftermarket" spacer is used there , "most of you" will not have a problem with even a "standard duty" case. This spacer IS standard issue on Nodular iron cases with "Daytona " pinion retainers. Bearings should be restricted to USA , Mexico or Japan manufacturers. AVOID those made in China. "Production" Ford hardware is super durable and I see no reason to change.
   Serious drag racing or road race ( endurance) is a bit different and if you are doing that , PM me and I'll help.
   Randy

   This spacer IS standard issue on Nodular cases with "Daytona" pinion retainers.  Clearly stated above because "some" N cased diffs had standard bearing retainers ( Ford trucks mainly at the end of 9" production)
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

roddster

  Its in the NPD catalog:  They sell a kit with a spacer and different shims so you can do away with the crush sleeve.

pbf777

Quote from: roddster on December 05, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
   a kit with a spacer and different shims so you can do away with the crush sleeve.


     We do not recommend using any of these "stack-a-shims" spacer systems for bearing location or preload as they have repeatedly demonstrated the tendency to wad-up and displace the shims, this leading to failure of the assembly!        :o

     The original engineering from Ford was that of individual, one piece steel spacers available in different thickness or lengths and selected to provide the desired preload value for the bearing set.       ;)

     Scott.

gt350hr

   That's because you've broken too many anvils with rubber mallets. Poor quality shim material IMHO , is the reason they "wad up" , plus .010 should be the minimum thickness. Ford's original design ( never released for production) was two .225 thick spacers and the "shims" were "sandwiched" in between. "I" believe these were initially made by Bill Stroppe and Associates , later known as Holman -Moody -Stroppe.
     Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

pbf777

Quote from: gt350hr on December 07, 2020, 11:59:16 AM
   That's because you've broken too many anvils with rubber mallets.

     Randy, now you know me better than that,  the smallest hammer (the rubber mallet heads just keep flying off the handles!) I've got is a 20# sledge, painted army green off one of my wreckers!      :o

     But, I can assure you that when I intend to have something "seated", it's seated!     ::)

     Scott.

shelbydoug

Quote from: pbf777 on December 07, 2020, 05:10:37 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on December 07, 2020, 11:59:16 AM
   That's because you've broken too many anvils with rubber mallets.

     Randy, now you know me better than that,  the smallest hammer (the rubber mallet heads just keep flying off the handles!) I've got is a 20# sledge, painted army green off one of my wreckers!      :o

     But, I can assure you that when I intend to have something "seated", it's seated!     ::)

     Scott.

I had an instructor like that. When he told you to sit down and be quiet if you didn't then he would use a ball peen hammer and then you were seated.  8)
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

Royce Peterson

All of the applications I stated have standard Daytona pinion housings. So far every original one I have taken apart - that's several - have had a solid select sleeve. If you find one with a crush sleeve it's not because Ford installed one - but you will then have to do something because crush sleeves are not re - useable.


Quote from: gt350hr on December 04, 2020, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on December 03, 2020, 06:19:22 PM
Note that Ford didn't use a crush sleeve in the 31 spline applications like the Cougar GT-E or the Shelby Mustangs. 428CJ Mustang / Cougar / Comet / Fairlane, Boss 302 Mustang / Cougar, Boss 429 Mustang / Cougar, Boss 351 Mustang, 429 CJ / SCJ Mustang / Cougar / Comet / Fairlane etc. In those applications it is a solid steel spacer that does not get replaced every time.

Quote from: gt350hr on December 03, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
   The FIRST weak link in any 9" is the crush sleeve or "pinion bearing preload spacer". The "crush sleeve" used by many manufacturers , is a good "automotive production" way of setting diffs up. If a solid , select fit "aftermarket" spacer is used there , "most of you" will not have a problem with even a "standard duty" case. This spacer IS standard issue on Nodular iron cases with "Daytona " pinion retainers. Bearings should be restricted to USA , Mexico or Japan manufacturers. AVOID those made in China. "Production" Ford hardware is super durable and I see no reason to change.
   Serious drag racing or road race ( endurance) is a bit different and if you are doing that , PM me and I'll help.
   Randy

   This spacer IS standard issue on Nodular cases with "Daytona" pinion retainers.  Clearly stated above because "some" N cased diffs had standard bearing retainers ( Ford trucks mainly at the end of 9" production)
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

gt350hr

   Solid spacers were also in EVERY 9-3/8ths diff built by Ford. The deeper pinion offset put a higher load on the "test" differentials , causing the initial attempt at using a crush sleeve to be spec'd for all production with the solid , select fit . spacer. As Royce said , if you find a crush sleeve in any of these two pinion retainers , a novice changed it out. As a note the "standard" retainer requires a solid spacer about .020 ( on average) thinner than a Daytona retainer. This is where an aftermarket adjustable kit should be used. The same kit can be used in a "modern" 8.8 diff for similar improvement.
     Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

pbf777

#38
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 08, 2020, 08:01:18 AM
I had an instructor like that. When he told you to sit down and be quiet if you didn't then he would use a ball peen hammer and then you were seated.  8)


     I had a chemistry instructor that used a baseball bat as his persuader/enforcer, and I witnessed it being put into service exactly once in class, the demonstration took-out one school desk, but buddy, he had every ones' attention from then on.      :o

     I don't think this modus operandi would be permitted in todays' world of pansy-ass, I got my feelings hurt, sensitive society!         ::)

     Scott.

shelbydoug

Quote from: pbf777 on December 08, 2020, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 08, 2020, 08:01:18 AM
I had an instructor like that. When he told you to sit down and be quiet if you didn't then he would use a ball peen hammer and then you were seated.  8)


     I had a chemistry instructor that used a baseball bat as his persuader/enforcer, and I witnessed it being put into service exactly once in class, the demonstration took-out one school desk, but buddy, he had every ones' attention from then on.      :o

     I don't think this modus operandi would be permitted in todays' world of pansy-ass, I got my feels hurt, sensitive society!         ::)

     Scott.

Ah grasshopper.  ::) ::)

Have you ever wondered where the women SS Nazis disappeared to at the end of WWII?

I have a friend who claims that they took the southern route into Northern Italy, made a donation to the Catholic Church, and were re-baptized with new names.

Then they applied for and received RedCross ID's and emigrated to the US where they became nuns in the Catholic parochial schools teaching in New York.

Personally I am entirely fed up with all of these conspiracies theories but in this case it sounds suspiciously true?  There is much circumstantial evidence to suggest it could be true? ::)
68 GT350 Lives Matter!