Author Topic: Long racing lug nuts  (Read 1598 times)

pbf777

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2021, 04:10:54 PM »
...................But - for a different set of wheels I need tapered ones.


     Note that there has been more than one angle used over the many different wheels produced over the decades requiring such, so be sure to establish the correct angle for what-ever wheels are being used.    ;)

     For instances where for proper fitment an open-end lug nut is not available, we have utilized the long closed-end nut and just cut (lathe) the cap off to create the open-end feature ( 8) ), though realize that the machined surface will not have chrome or other originally applied appearance or corrosion protecting surface coating remaining.     :(

     Scott.

shelbydoug

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2021, 06:03:53 PM »
About 15 years ago or so, Shelby Parts & restoration had some made out of stainless hex rod.

I don't think they have any left but if it sounds like he could sell a run of them they might be interested.

The only thing is for some strange reason 13/16" hex rod in any metal is tough to find.

Since most open end lug nuts are for racing purposes, most are made with flat washers and a square neck that inserts into the wheel.

It's easier and safer to redrill the wheel to match that.


American Racing Wheels was a big supplier of those lug nuts back in the day.

I still have mine which are cadium plated and not chrome.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 06:06:07 PM by shelbydoug »
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pbf777

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2021, 07:58:08 PM »
About 15 years ago or so, Shelby Parts & restoration had some made out of stainless hex rod.


     Not implying anything wrong with the product or the supplier mentioned as I have no experience with it; but "generic" stainless steel rod material, and although there are many alloys of S.S., is often something along the lines of say a 304 S.S. coupled with a heat treatment process which I would find questionable as for making a suitable fastener material for this application.  Also note that S.S., even the right stuff, has a bad habit of galling (likes to get friendly with like material and readily with aluminum also); so to avoid this one should utilize an anti-seize product in the process of attachment (not only on the tread, but in this instance, also on the interacting seating faces of the nut to the wheel face); but if one also subscribes the popular thought that lug-nuts are intended to be installed "dry", well, we have another problem.      :-\


It's easier and safer to redrill the wheel to match that.


     Well...........as I often say, that makes you the new (wheel) engineer!      :o

     Scott.

shelbydoug

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2021, 09:26:40 PM »
About 15 years ago or so, Shelby Parts & restoration had some made out of stainless hex rod.


     Not implying anything wrong with the product or the supplier mentioned as I have no experience with it; but "generic" stainless steel rod material, and although there are many alloys of S.S., is often something along the lines of say a 304 S.S. coupled with a heat treatment process which I would find questionable as for making a suitable fastener material for this application.  Also note that S.S., even the right stuff, has a bad habit of galling (likes to get friendly with like material and readily with aluminum also); so to avoid this one should utilize an anti-seize product in the process of attachment (not only on the tread, but in this instance, also on the interacting seating faces of the nut to the wheel face); but if one also subscribes the popular thought that lug-nuts are intended to be installed "dry", well, we have another problem.      :-\


It's easier and safer to redrill the wheel to match that.


     Well...........as I often say, that makes you the new (wheel) engineer!      :o

     Scott.

Yes I would agree with you on this and add that ant-seize should be used on anything that is taken apart more then just once in a while.
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Karguy

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2021, 10:24:04 PM »
Wow…are we over engineering lug nuts or what?? :) :)
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Speed Six

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2021, 01:19:44 AM »
....and I´ve started it... :-[ :) ;)


shelbydoug

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2021, 07:49:11 AM »
Wow…are we over engineering lug nuts or what?? :) :)

They NEVER were simple. You just presumed that they were. ;)
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pbf777

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 12:15:16 PM »
     
.................. anti-seize should be used on anything that is taken apart more then just once in a while.


     But, when vocalizing this referencing lug studs & nuts you might get quite a different thought on the matter, this from a rather large group and including many of those individuals who have been responsible for the engineering thoughts and decisions of major manufactures.     :-\

     It would appear nothing is ever as simple as it might seem, when one begins to really think about it!     :o

     Scott.


     

shelbydoug

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2021, 07:18:14 PM »
     
.................. anti-seize should be used on anything that is taken apart more then just once in a while.


     But, when vocalizing this referencing lug studs & nuts you might get quite a different thought on the matter, this from a rather large group and including many of those individuals who have been responsible for the engineering thoughts and decisions of major manufactures.     :-\

     It would appear nothing is ever as simple as it might seem, when one begins to really think about it!     :o

     Scott.


   

I'll go out on a limb here and give you my opinion, rare occurrence that it is, IF the stress loadings are that close on the fasteners that anti-seeze dangerously effects that, then I say the bolt is underengineered for the application.

You ARE going to be happy at some point that you applied anti-seeze to the lug studs.

Now me...I don't get into it with anyone. Particularly the engineers. Nah. I'm just a little ol' pussycat. Meow! ;)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 07:20:31 PM by shelbydoug »
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pbf777

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2021, 09:36:57 PM »
IF the stress loadings are that close on the fasteners that anti-seeze dangerously effects that, then I say the bolt is underengineered for the application.


    If by "stress loadings" you are referring to the difference in the turning effort during torquing and resultant increase in clamping load, greater tension load and stretch value applied to the fastener?; that is all likely true but that is not as related to me the real concern.      ???

    Rather, as relayed to me repeatedly, it's a simple concern for the very reason one wants to apply anti-seize, a reduced effort in the removal of said fastener!  I think this opinion probably arose with the earlier use of the press-formed steel wheels which tend to flex, perhaps more than the engineering intentions (later renditions are superior   ;)  ), this tending to 'work' the fasteners attempting to maintain the clamping of the wheel to the hub.   :)

    Evidence of this is witnessed with the fatigue cracking often in close proximity of or directly emanating from the lug holes of the wheels.  This even more so with the introduction of the radial tire which caused addition flexing of the rim, and was addressed with redesign for them once it became apparent.     :)

    Scott.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 10:32:45 AM by pbf777 »

shelbydoug

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2021, 07:28:34 AM »
Well, "best laid plans of mice and men".

I stopped saving the snapped off lug studs of customers cars collected from REMOVING the lugs. Stopped probably 25 years ago on that one.

I still occasionally do need to put a 4 foot pipe over a 32" breaker bar after soaking them in rust blaster.

There is something not considered here in the original engineering and "Occam's razor" suggests that maybe just a little anti-seize might have saved some grief?
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pbf777

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Re: Long racing lug nuts
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2021, 10:39:29 AM »
     Do realize, I didn't say I wasn't a proponent in the use of anti-seize in this instance, just pointing out that there are conflicting opinions, each with potential merit.     :)

     Scott.