enhancing a photo

[shelbymann1970]

Is this about the tire size change to 60 series in '69? Isn't the a spindle change over after a certain build date and those cars would have '60s?

'70 Shelby's could be before or after that date?

My original post is to see what tires are on the original pic. No question most Shelbys after April 1 got the F-60-15s and all left AO Smith with no size tires. It is what happened when at KK for months before the Shelbys were shipped out.

[Coralsnake]

I have never seen any evidence that cars had tires changed at Kar Kraft.

Not saying it didn't happen

Just saying I have never seen any evidence that cars had tires changed at Kar Kraft

[Side-Oilers]

What are "no size" tires?  No white lettering of the size on the sidewall?

Or, no size imprinted on the tire at all? 

Seems unlikely there'd be no size at all.

[Coralsnake]

Correct. The discussion is about the appearance of the tire. Size and no size is a reference to if the tire had that feature in raised white letters visible on the side.

[Side-Oilers]

Thanks Pete.

[Bob Gaines]

What do we say about extra ordinary claims . In this case no compelling evidence "0" directly linking your car or any 68/70 Shelby for that matter with the not typical sized tires (tire size in white letters) at KK before being shipped out for delivery . Of course you can always use the anything is possible defense. You are beating a dead horse here IMO.

[TA Coupe]

 When all is said and done, does it really matter?

      .Roy

[FL SAAC]

When all is said and done, does it really matter?

      .Roy

yes and no

to me, no I  get ribbed a lot when I hang out with the early mustang crowd

"you of all people should have the correct tires on your cars"

no again, I love my radials ride, handling and most importantly their price and availability

yes because it's historically important to know what was used then

I was almost tempted to have a friend that works for the feds take a look and magnify the photo, but no...save that request for a more important matter

[shelbymann1970]

I have never seen any evidence that cars had tires changed at Kar Kraft.

Not saying it didn't happen

Just saying I have never seen any evidence that cars had tires changed at Kar Kraft

What evidence would you expect to find? In what avenues? Paperwork? How do we come to conclusions on how cars were built? Wasn't one being period photos? Original cars? WORKERS? Larry told me a few years back there were issues at KK with theft. The yard where the B9s and Shelbys were held wasn't exactly a fortress. Shelbys sat for how many months? My car built in May and left in Feb. Changed over in Oct. How about the issues with the F-60-15 tires Goodyear had? Not being balanced right. Those should have been changed out though before nov of 69. I shake my head when I see pics of my car with a few thousand kilometers on it from 70-71 and it has size tires on it. Yeah, we have been down this road before but the same people who use pics and workers to come up with their conclusions very conveniently dismiss mine? The second owner bought with about 3K kilometers on my car. What is that? about 18 hundred miles? He thought until the 2000s he bought a demo from Claude not knowing the first owner only had it briefly. He never put New Goodyears on it but put Radial T/As on it around 1973(got pics of those also). GT350s don't fry the tires so no scenario makes sense to my car leaving KK with no size tires. None. But I get it. I really didn't want a discussion as to I want a enhanced photo of this car which could very well show no size tires but like some have said extraordinary proof...

[shelbymann1970]

What are "no size" tires?  No white lettering of the size on the sidewall?

Or, no size imprinted on the tire at all? 

Seems unlikely there'd be no size at all.

all tire on Shelbys with the XHD suspension had no size leaving AO Smith. THe question is what could have happened to some Shelbys while sitting at KK for months. I got pics of my Shelby a few months old with very little miles on it from the second owner who said he never changed out the Goodyears and the pics he sent he told me those were the tires on it until he put Radial T/As on it around 1973. So how did my car end up with size tires on it? Car was shipped to Belgium and sold new on Sept 30, 1970.
 Another thing is that while Claude(RIP) told me his memory failed him on what happened to the paperwork I found a guy over there that says he has paperwork and he will sift through it for my car. My car came to me in 1985 with 6/1970 dated Koni shocks on it. It would be cool to find out if they were changed out by Claude when new. Probably were not but the shocks predate the sale of the car by at least 3 months. My car also had a fiberglass front spoiler. Road rashed and repaired like one with 60K miles on it but all 70s got a plastic one so I still have not figured out who could have made a fiberglass one as I never have found one for sale yet in 40 years. The mounting on the fiberglass one was either mounted exactly like the factory plastic one was or it was the only one on the car when I bought it. Rick Parker thought an export vert he had had a fiberglass one but never looked at it and sold the car.

[shelbymann1970]

When all is said and done, does it really matter?

      .Roy

It does to me as it is the history of my car. Yeah, it would be easy to use no size tires but I have delved into otehr things here like side emblems and hood stripes and old photos that have surfaced years later after the discussion has proven me right on those things. Ah, if only we still had SAAC 1.0.
 Another thing is researching my red striped seats in my vert. Well  all the photos I have they just do not show the seat stripes but the second owner saw pics of my car and said he liked the seat stripe but they were not there when he owned the car so eventually a dying is in order. It's nice to converse with a person who owned your car when it was basically new(about 1800 miles).

[Coralsnake]

Well , Im not ruling it out, Im saying lets look at the evidence.

The photo says "circa" that means approximately. Could it be 1972 or 1973?

There is a decal below the mirror. Does that mean it is also "factory"?

Do we get to choose which items are valid and which are not?

I think its pretty self evident that cars in Europe were often modified to meet the requirements of the country they were in.

Can you say for sure thats an F60x15 and not some other size?

Are there any other period pictures with definitive dates that show "sized" tires? I recall a few pictures of the European shows.

[shelbymann1970]

Well , Im not ruling it out, Im saying lets look at the evidence.

The photo says "circa" that means approximately. Could it be 1972 or 1973?

There is a decal below the mirror. Does that mean it is also "factory"?

Do we get to choose which items are valid and which are not?

I think its pretty self evident that cars in Europe were often modified to meet the requirements of the country they were in.

Can you say for sure thats an F60x15 and not some other size?

Are there any other period pictures with definitive dates that show "sized" tires? I recall a few pictures of the European shows.

photo says circa 1971. It was either the end of 70 or 1971. I'm the one who added the verbiage to the photo. After talking more over the years with Patryce and finding out he bought a 70 Boss 302 and owned it for a short period of time before trading it in on my 70 Gt350 vert which he thought was a demo. Pics below say it all: The license plate on the Boss 302 is the same as the one on the vert. Plate transferred over. Same plate dating to around 1974-5 on my car in later pics. So adding a company sticker to a car or even painting the tail light bezels black lends the car to say the tires must have been changed out also? I heard the same stuff in SAAC 1.0 about the rear quarter emblems on my car. Car is not "original" so the emblems were probably added. Well we now know from Bill Cook's period photos that they were indeed added before a cars sale and not some dealer accessory. Luckily Patryce was a guy who liked to take pics of his cars.
 European shows were there any 1970 cars there or all 1969s? If 1969s you are missing the point as in tire issues at KK for one reason or another or even a warranty issue on a tire while still new? Car shipped Feb 1970 from KK Via Wixom to Belgium via NY,NY according to SAAC. Sold new Sept 30, 1970. Feel free to enhance the pic as I can tell they are F-60-15s by comparison to other Shelbys plus the one pic I posted the side view  blow it up-rear tire says F-60-15.

[Bill]

I have spoken with original Mustang owners who had issues early on, flat tires, stolen rims/tires, bent rims, etc..Can't believe it would be any different for the Shelbys.  So anything is possible.....The car being sent overseas, any of those could have happened in between AO Smith and DeBoise.....

Imagine the following phone call from a shipper:
Shipper: I've got a flat or damaged tire, send me a replacement
Tire supplier: Sure thing
Shipper: Got the tire, it does not match the others, send me a matching set or I'll have to take my business elsewhere
Tire supplier: No problem, we will take care of it ASAP as we value your business. 

Just food for thought.

Bill

[propayne]

From a graphics perspective - I opened up your pic that is the subject of this thread and it is 72dpi - a very low resolution.

Do you have access to that original photograph or know who does?

That needs to be scanned into a computer at a very high resolution, 1200dpi or so and then you can blow it way up and see what information is readable.

- Phillip