Author Topic: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests  (Read 1842 times)

FL SAAC

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25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« on: February 03, 2023, 10:12:35 PM »
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Side-Oilers

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2023, 05:34:50 PM »
Interesting compilation.

It's been my experience that the drag magazines (Hot Rod, PHR, Car Craft, etc.) were better at squeezing each possible 100th/second out of a car in the quarter mile. The Motor Trend type mags were good, but typically R&T was the slowest. They didn't hammer cars off the launch like the drag magazine would.

Also, PHR and Hot Rod would usually play with the cars a bit at the strip, lower tire pressure, put ice on the intake manifold, loosen the front sway bar, etc.  Some would bolt on a set of slicks, just to see the difference. Thus, some of their test numbers need to be put in that perspective.   

With the narrow bias-ply tires of the day, traction was always a problem. So, a sticky drag surface would yield better ETs than the back stretch at Riverside Raceway, where MT usually tested acceleration.

And, let's not forget the regular issue of cheater cars, from the factory. I don't think there was ever a Pontiac test car that wasn't tweaked-up a bit. Like putting a 421 into the '64 GTO, but still calling it a 389.  That, and other true stories, were told to me directly by the man who was there...the mastermind of Pontiac performance: Jim Wangers.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 05:38:07 PM by Side-Oilers »
Current:
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crossboss

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2023, 05:57:45 PM »
As Van mentioned, most of those test cars were 'ringers'. Most notable were those 1971 Boss 351s....far from stock.
Btw Van, Jim Wangers told me the same thing.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 05:59:18 PM by crossboss »
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557

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2023, 06:52:56 PM »
12.3 out of stock boss 9?unlikely….. ;)

Royce Peterson

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2023, 08:27:53 PM »
12.3 out of stock boss 9?unlikely….. ;)

Right, that one is unlikely.
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1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

1109RWHP

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2023, 08:41:57 PM »
Was a 69 GT500 really 3,850 lbs?

jk66gt350

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2023, 10:46:35 PM »
Is it just me that finds it hard to believe a 62 AC Cobra with a 260 in it was only 3 tenths of a second slower in the 1/4 mile than a 66 427 Cobra ??  Yes, the 62 was lighter, but the math does not seem to make sense.

jk66gt350

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2023, 11:26:24 PM »
Meant to say hard to believe a 62 AC Cobra with a 260 was 3/10ths of a second faster than a 66 427 Cobra.  What say you Cobra guys ??

557

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2023, 01:08:07 AM »
Also it’s kind of an apples to oranges comparison if they don’t include final drive ratios….. ;)

shelbydoug

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 07:42:05 AM »
Is it just me that finds it hard to believe a 62 AC Cobra with a 260 in it was only 3 tenths of a second slower in the 1/4 mile than a 66 427 Cobra ??  Yes, the 62 was lighter, but the math does not seem to make sense.

Traction issues. The 427 just sits and spins the tires like it has a line lock on.

It isn't just the Cobra's, the BB Mustangs do the same thing but do not have the benefit of better weight distribution.

The BB Cobra being 40/60 and the BB Mustang being 60/40.



The bigger rear end ratios help with that. That's why something like a 4.30 has better 1/4 mi times but kills the top speed.

In todays world, five and six speed transmissions fix much of that problem but the top overdrive gearing is easier to break then something like a Ford close ratio 4 speed is.

"Back when I was a 'boy' ", you needed to use 4.88's behind a 2.20 first gear transmission to even get into the 12's.

Don't forget too that the SB Cobras were t10's with a 2.20 first gear, so not much first gear bite for drag racing.


The racer's rule of thumb on getting good 1/4 times is that the product of first gear and the rear end ratio needs to be in about the 11 to 14 range. So with something like a reasonable rear ratio for cruising like a 3.25, you need something around a 3.38 first gear.
This factor alone explains much of the 1/4 mile times tested back then.


I saw many a Cobra race between a 427 and a 289 and it would come down to the drivers talent to as which was faster. They would pull neck and neck.

By the same token most Cobras wouldn't race a BB Mustang least they be embarrassed by the results.



Today's computer controlled transmissions will let anyone run down to the 10's. Just point it and shoot it. Apples and oranges. Not the same thing.

Some in fact are 10 speed transmissions. That helps traction control immensely.


Yes I believe the 260/427 times. I witnessed it.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 09:53:32 AM by shelbydoug »
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crossboss

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2023, 12:07:20 PM »
Was a 69 GT500 really 3,850 lbs?



Yes! My '70 GT-500 was 3,960 pounds. No driver.
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

Side-Oilers

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2023, 02:55:33 PM »
Doug, I usually agree with you, and I do respect your experience. However in my experience of testing various real Cobras (a 260 in CSX2000, plus several 289 and 427s) I can attest that the 427s were quicker, unless (as you correctly point out) there was a vast difference in gearbox and rearend ratios.

While the BB Cobras do light up their tires through about 70 mph, the car’s weight is so low that it doesn’t sit there and go up in smoke like a heavier car with a lot of power.  With practice, I was able to master the wheel-spin versus forward-progress skill to get the best times.

Yes, a full-race 289 would give a stock 427 fits, but I’m referring to both cars in street-stock trim. Every stock Cobra 427 I’ve tested ran between 12.8 and 13.4 sec. That’s at least a half-second quicker and than every stock SB Cobra I’ve tested.

One more thing to factor into the quickest cars list: A lot of muscle cars tested back then had one-legger (peg leg) rear ends, which obviously hurt times. 

One example I’ve had time in, both in the day and more recently, is the ‘65 Malibu SS396 Z16, which was the first car to get the potent 396/375hp BB, 4-speed with 3.73 gears.  My cousin had one new, and he gave me plenty of tire-smoking rides.  I would’ve sworn it was quicker than any Mustang, GTO, Charger, etc. Until I track tested a fully restored real Z16 for Car Craft in the early 1990s.  100% correct engine and driveline specs. Even in the same color (Crocus Yellow with black vinyl top) as my cousin’s. 

I was excited with anticipation.  But, that excitement turned to disappointment on my first run. Everything was perfect on the car, it felt powerful and drove great, but couldn’t break out of the 15s. Run after run. 15.0s.  Good mph in the high 90s, but what a disappointment otherwise. 

A big part of the problem was that none of the Z16s came with Posi. Chevy had developed a Panhard rod rear suspension modification that was supposed to work as well as Posi to control wheel spin, but didn’t. Why they didn’t also include Posi is a mystery to me. With Posi (on stock type/ size bias ply tires) the car would’ve been in the low 14s with ease, and probably capable of high 13s with the best track conditions.  Vintage tests of the Z16 showed very similar 15.0/97-99 mph runs.

But man, my cousin’s Z16 felt like it was the quickest car ever, back in the day…from a kid’s perspective. It sure could smoke that one rear tire for blocks!

BTW:  The Z16 was the first muscle car to bring big bucks in price. In 1979-80, they were going for about what a BB Cobra was getting. They’re still over $200k for a property restored one. Only 201 built. 200 hardtops and 1 convertible. The convertible hasn’t ever surfaced and was probably ordered as a “brass hat” Chevrolet executive car.

There’s more that you’d ever want to know about a ‘65 Malibu, but is a great example of why most muscle cars weren’t as quick as we think they were.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 05:06:56 PM by Side-Oilers »
Current:
2006 FGT. Tungsten. Whipple, HRE 20s, Ohlin coil-overs, 3.90 gears. 210.7 mph.

Kirkham Cobra. 482-inch aluminum side-oiler. Tremec 5-spd.

Formerly:
1968 GT500KR #2575 (1982-2022)
1970 Ranchero GT 429
1969 LTD Country Squire 429
1963 T-Bird Sport Roadster
1957 T-Bird E-model 3-spd stick

crossboss

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2023, 04:09:24 PM »
Van,
Your assessment is spot on. Most Muscle Cars in stock form were 15 second cars. A few were in the high 13's, and 14s. Everyone 'thinks' a stock Muscle Car from the 1960s-early '70s was a 12 second car.  Not true. Especially when all the magazines tested 'ringers' and or 'prepped' cars.  Its the same today. Not one production car can touch the times quoted in the magazine tests.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 04:12:55 PM by crossboss »
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

557

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2023, 04:42:30 PM »
I can attest to the fact that my 67 gt500 with 4spd.and stock 3.50 open rear will not “hook up”on a hard launch…..no matter what….

shelbydoug

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Re: 25 Fastest Ford Magazine Drag Tests
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2023, 05:27:35 PM »
Was there ever a such thing as a "stock" 427 Cobra? What's stock? A S/C? A csx3100 with the dual four center oiler, the CSX 3200's with the 428, or the CSX 3300's with the 427 single four side oiler and skinny tires on the Sunbursts?

If any a car had to be explained what stock is, it was that one.

I never saw a magazine test in person, just track and street racing. What I saw in street racing was it was a chore for a 427 to pull away from a 289. What was stock there, probably nothing?


Ford top loaders had already found themselves in to R models and 289 Cobras, replacing the t10s which just loved to pop out of second gear even new.


BOTH of those cars physically HURT racing them. It was like being a passenger in an old wooden roller coaster. Besides having to twist yourself into the 289's.


I remember one test of a 427 where they decided to test it from a roll. I don't remember what mag it was now? Maybe that was you? 3.31's did not help the bite.


Speaking of cheating, what ever happened to those soft compound tires those test cars were shod with? I haven't heard about those in 50 years? It took me a while to find out what the S meant in the sidewalls.

I suspect that those 13 second times on the "Muscle cars" were the times with the air cleaners off? I remember 2 tenths differences with the air cleaners off. That would push a 14 second car into the 13's.

If I remember correctly that was something like an 80hp factor?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 07:24:14 PM by shelbydoug »
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