6S406 - Bring A Trailer

[Shelby73]

This is not a Chevrolet Camaro or Corvette where your trying to prove your car is numbers matching because the Vin number doesn't show you which engine it had from the factory. This is a K code and it's also a Shelby so you know what motor it came with. Even if it wasn't the original block the value would not be much different. I would rather have a good bodied solid car with a replacement block than a rusty or wrecked up car with the original block. I've seen several vin number mistakes on cars I wouldn't worry about it.

[Mikelj5S230]

It is true a Chevy will not have the engine designation in the VIN, but there is an additional stamp on the engine pad that shows the plant, assembly date, and code for the engine, so it is not that hard to tell an original engine to a car and that is also judged in NCRS, Bloomington, MCACN, etc.   It is interesting you believe   that an original block in a car like this is not worth much more than a replacement of the proper type/date/etc.  In that case, no one should worry about this engine being original anyway, just ignore that and look at the whole car.

[pchmotoho]

It is true a Chevy will not have the engine designation in the VIN, but there is an additional stamp on the engine pad that shows the plant, assembly date, and code for the engine, so it is not that hard to tell an original engine to a car and that is also judged in NCRS, Bloomington, MCACN, etc.   It is interesting you believe   that an original block in a car like this is not worth much more than a replacement of the proper type/date/etc.  In that case, no one should worry about this engine being original anyway, just ignore that and look at the whole car.

Mike, don't people fake the other stamps and casting dates along with the engine pads?  Years ago I was an NCRS member and I remember reading that even if NCRS did judge (say an LT-1, or whatever) to be Top Flight they did not say with any certainty that the car was in fact what it was represented to be. I understand the point in doing this but have you ever seen a Vette with a high dollar pass Top Flight judging and not be what it was represented to be?

Chevy sure would've saved everyone a lot of hassle if they would have put the engine codes in the vin prior to 72.

[Mikelj5S230]

Yes, of course anything can and does get faked. Engine pad stampers are more than a cottage industry.  As a 300 level NCRS judge I have judged many engine pads and yes some are re-stamps, but we also have a large library (speaking of my '67 team) of pad stamp photos to refer to so that flaws and deviations can be seen pretty easily within VIN ranges. The stamp pad has 3 judging elements we judge separately, it is by appearance of course and we cannot know nor guarantee if the engine is original to the car. At a recent national a '67 red/red L71(435 HP) coupe (a very high dollar car) had a re-stamped pad that was judged as losing 25 points of the 88 for the whole stamp pad due to a VIN flaw that was not typical for that VIN sequence. The car obviously did not have the original engine, but it still won Top Flight and Duntov awards and still sold for big bucks a few years later, just not as much as it would have with the original engine.  I would point out that having the engine code in the VIN is not much help when determining if an engine is the original one the car was built with.

[Shelby73]

I have a L-79 Corvette with the original engine and its real I have everything that goes with it to prove it. I also have a 69 Z/28 that has the original engine and paperwork so I have everything to prove that also. But there are plenty of people that make L79s out of 300 hp cars and 425 Hp ones out of 390 hp ones and there are people that try to make 68-69 Z/28s. ( I know most 69s were a X33 or x77 car but some were not) That's why when you have a Chevrolet you better have some original paperwork to prove your point and you better have all your dates and codes worked out. What I'm saying about a Ford or Shelby is you know what it was by the engine code you don't have to prove that point but if you have the original engine that's just icing on the cake. The original block is a definite plus but not as critical as a GM car. On GM brands the original block means a lot or you need a lot of original paperwork.

[Mikelj5S230]

I agree with that. I always feel more comfortable with my '64 1/2 K code with its original engine that I have than some of my Corvettes, like the '67 L71 that has the tank sticker showing it left the factory with an L71, but a re-stamped restoration engine with the proper codes and dates.  Big differential in the Corvette without an original engine, probably not much at all if my K code was a replacement.

[FL SAAC]

I have a L-79 Corvette with the original engine and its real I have everything that goes with it to prove it. I also have a 69 Z/28 that has the original engine and paperwork so I have everything to prove that also. But there are plenty of people that make L79s out of 300 hp cars and 425 Hp ones out of 390 hp ones and there are people that try to make 68-69 Z/28s. ( I know most 69s were a X33 or x77 car but some were not) That's why when you have a Chevrolet you better have some original paperwork to prove your point and you better have all your dates and codes worked out. What I'm saying about a Ford or Shelby is you know what it was by the engine code you don't have to prove that point but if you have the original engine that's just icing on the cake. The original block is a definite plus but not as critical as a GM car. On GM brands the original block means a lot or you need a lot of original paperwork.

extra ordinary claims need to be backed up by extra ordinary evidence. 

Looks like you have it covered

[Coralsnake]

Interesting turn of events in that auction.

[J_Speegle]

Interesting turn of events in that auction.

Wonder how many have contacted that (the convertible) seller and asked if the current engine has a VIN and for pictures if it does.

[Bob Gaines]

The plot thickens .

[Mikelj5S230]

Indeed, it gets curiouser and curiouser, but does an original, born with engine really matter in such a well restored car?

[J_Speegle]

Indeed, it gets curiouser and curiouser, but does an original, born with engine really matter in such a well restored car?

Depends on the person but without it it would hard to claim "all original" or some would even argue the use of the word restored since it would be not as built.
Would it not? But then there are those that might see it as no more important than a set of reproduction tires, or a new paint job- neither are original in the strict application of the word "restored"

Has been interesting IMHO to watch so far considering how much the VIN stamping has taken over the discussion when there are so many other things that could be discussed.

[Coralsnake]

I have been saying that for a long time. It really shouldn't matter for 90% of people

Most people cant discern what is original, especially the bast majority of the BaT audience. If thats important to you need a pre purchase inspection. Im confident thats not happening. People are relying on yahoo comments and overlooking some very big items in some cases, like rebodies and bad tags

[Mikelj5S230]

Yes, interesting about the rest of the car not coming into focus, maybe red herrings work......

[CharlesTurner]

Most people cant discern what is original, especially the bast majority of the BaT audience. If thats important to you need a pre purchase inspection. Im confident thats not happening. People are relying on yahoo comments and overlooking some very big items in some cases, like rebodies and bad tags

Hard to know how many cars are being inspected in person, but I'm guessing it's not many.  There's no lead time before an auction goes live and hard to get something like that arranged withing a 7-14 day window.  I bought a car off BaT earlier this year, thankfully it was a 2 hour drive away, otherwise, not sure if I would have bid on it.  The seller told me I was the only one that came and looked at it, yet it got bid up to about 1.5-2x more than it should have. 

PPI seems to be much more of a thing on newer cars, like hi-performance German cars and such.  Guess it's easier since there are usually at least a few reputable shops in most areas.