Author Topic: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs  (Read 8599 times)

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2019, 11:08:40 AM »
     Yes if it is in fact Jim Grubbs Motorsports they are a first class high end operation. They have built many circle track engines for well known racers out here. All work done in house including dyno testing. Let's see what the autopsy reveals.
     Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

Bob Gaines

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2019, 12:46:10 PM »
     Yes if it is in fact Jim Grubbs Motorsports they are a first class high end operation. They have built many circle track engines for well known racers out here. All work done in house including dyno testing. Let's see what the autopsy reveals.
     Randy
Isn't the typical protocol for the shop that did the work to be the one to do the tear down like I mentioned in reply #1 of this thread?  Or is it that their examination would not be trusted? I can't think of another reason to go to the extra time and expense for someone else to do it other then the shop that built it. What am I missing ?
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2019, 01:21:39 PM »
  Logistics may play a part. If the engine is in Idaho , JGM is in the north end of Southern California which is close to a thousand mile separation. If the issue was simple like a gasket or PCV , it would make sense to fix that where it is. However what my trained eye saw with the bore - o - scope pictures is NOT a "field fix". I agree with you Bob , in that  if "I" were the builder , I would want to do the tear down. Not because additional damage could happen , but because "clues" could be lost in the process by someone not seeing them or knowing what to look for. We can easily agree JGM did not "build" the engine with scratched up bores and it probably didn't smoke when it was on their dyno. "Something" has obviously changed.
    Randy
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cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2019, 04:47:08 PM »
Bill told me that the first start up in the Ford shop; it filled the whole shop with smoke 😳
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2019, 05:23:17 PM »
   Was that after the dyno session or before? If after , the problem obviously happened on the dyno runs.
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cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2019, 04:36:06 AM »
After it was on the dyno then all the dyno notes came back to Idaho with the done engine; then the master tech installed back into the Shelby
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

Karguy

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2019, 10:11:11 AM »
I was speaking to the great Doug Anderson (the Ford engine Guru) from Automotive machine service in Albuquerque the other day seeking advice on assembling 6S281ís engine. Doug rebuilt the heads including new bronze guides, also went through the entire engine including very carefully balancing the entire rotating assembly. I was asking him about assembly lube and he gave me some very specific instructions.  He is a firm believer in using Clevite/Maule products, they make one assembly lube specifically for crankshaft associated bearings and one specifically designed for camshaft specific parts. He told me a story about one of his customers who assembled his own 289 and had problems with oil consumption and smoke. After quizzing his customer he figured out that he had used the crankshaft assembly lube in the cylinders as a pre-lube. Apparently some of the assembly lubeís are so slick they wonít allow the rings to seat properly. He told me to use nothing but motor oil on the Pistons, wrist-pins and rings.  He also mentioned that shops have been known to install the rings upside down, that would definitely cause oil consumption and it might explain the scoring in the cylinders. Although there are many things that could be causing the smoke problem with Bills engine I thought the timing of this information may be helpful to others.
 Iím anxious to hear what the final verdict is on Bills engine. Please keep us posted!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 11:05:59 AM by Karguy »
6S281, in my family from 1972-1983. Back home January 2017, will not leave again!

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2019, 11:17:22 AM »
    I have also seen the top ring in the second groove and the second in the top BESIDES being installed up side down. I couldn't agree more with your friend Doug. Engine oil on the piston skirts and ring faces. This practice allows the rings to begin seating during the actual engine assembly process. DO NOT "dunk" the piston and rod assembly in a can or bucket of oil. Oil on the top and behind the rings is not how the engine runs normally. That is a very bad practice and will cause detonation on initial startup . Oil and gas do not "play well " in the combustion chamber. I quit using bearing lube unless the engine is going to be stored for a long period before initial start up. "I" prefer to use engine oil and use the drill motor to establish oil pressure in the engine before initial startup. I also quit using a "moly paste" style cam lube and use an extreme pressure grease sold through Dart Machinery. It's in a yellow and green tube with a CD logo on it. It does a better job and doesn't "contaminate" the oil . I have seen moly paste use on piston skirts and rings as well. Not the right thing to do .
     Randy
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427heaven

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2019, 11:23:30 AM »
Grubbs shop knows the difference between lubricants, coatings, etc. Other engine builders send their engines to Ryan for problem solving, these guys build some of the most expensive, rare, and powerful engines for any applications. I have seen some 50-100k off shore boat, record setting engines they built that were sent from all over the planet, and they are stunning! A 289 with scored cylinder walls is well within their wheelhouse of abilities. Lets wait for the prognosis. :-\

2112

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2019, 11:33:01 AM »
If the engine builder is reputable, I would ship the engine back complete to have them resolve it.

I think if you start tearing it down, you own it.

I know of several shops where the warranty ends at the shop door on a high performance engine.

Side-Oilers

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2019, 11:35:47 AM »
If the engine builder is reputable, I would ship the engine back complete to have them resolve it.

I think if you start tearing it down, you own it.

I know of several shops where the warranty ends at the shop door on a high performance engine.

^^^True all.^^^
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gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2019, 11:45:49 AM »
Grubbs shop knows the difference between lubricants, coatings, etc. Other engine builders send their engines to Ryan for problem solving, these guys build some of the most expensive, rare, and powerful engines for any applications. I have seen some 50-100k off shore boat, record setting engines they built that were sent from all over the planet, and they are stunning! A 289 with scored cylinder walls is well within their wheelhouse of abilities. Lets wait for the prognosis. :-\

    +1  Everything so far is "armchair speculation" though well meant , "reality" is often far different than the guesses given. As I said before , Jim Grubbs Motorsports is a top notch operation. They will find the cause , no doubt about about that.
 
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Bob Gaines

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2019, 12:17:13 PM »
If the engine builder is reputable, I would ship the engine back complete to have them resolve it.

I think if you start tearing it down, you own it.

I know of several shops where the warranty ends at the shop door on a high performance engine.
Yep,  reply #1 of this 4 page thread. 
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

2112

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2019, 01:17:16 PM »
If the engine builder is reputable, I would ship the engine back complete to have them resolve it.

I think if you start tearing it down, you own it.

I know of several shops where the warranty ends at the shop door on a high performance engine.
Yep,  reply #1 of this 4 page thread.

I have to stop plagiarizing!   ;)

Bob Gaines

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2019, 04:16:13 PM »
If the engine builder is reputable, I would ship the engine back complete to have them resolve it.

I think if you start tearing it down, you own it.

I know of several shops where the warranty ends at the shop door on a high performance engine.
Yep,  reply #1 of this 4 page thread.

I have to stop plagiarizing!   ;)
I hope you know I didn't think that . I should have put a +1 to show my post was done in agreement.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby